CHOW #75 - VOTING - Guest Host: bumskee Topic:Demonic Pirate Lord

[Oblio]

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Demonic Pirate Lord

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POLL RULES
(for the new people)
NOT ALL ENTRIES ARE TAKEN TO THE POLL.
(the selection is based on technical quality criteria)
ENTRIES NOT POLLED WILL RECEIVE C&C
(i really try to do this every time)
IT IS A DIFFICULT PROCESS - MISTAKES CAN BE MADE
I am trying to set this as a professional demand. I act as the client...
Oblio is always looking for feedback - If Oblio is wrong - tell him so.
DON'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF


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ROUND COMMENTS:

Hey Oblio!
how's it going? hope things are well mate.
errmm another hectic round.. heh. *sigh*
oh and thanks for doing an awsome job running ChOW. I tried to cut it as much as I can but it was too hard and I was pulling my hair out. so yeah..

Little message for everyone:


Huge round! and lots of sweet entries!
Sadly not everyone is going to the poll, you all knew that tho right? It's not the most exciting or pleasing task since we all know how much work you guys put into them but sadly the standard's gotta be high!
spent over two hours trying to sort this out..
Please remember for next round, STICK TO THE TOPIC.. it's one thing to be original but it's another to do something entirely different. Post all your PICS in a single post.. it's hectic trying to go back and forth and trying to match all the images.. minimum 3/4.. and let your character stand out first!

OK List
Nutter
Coldrum
NKunleashed
bradly
poojipoo
timothee
ENBE
FridayEve
Kreator
Woodlandwalker
Cloister
BEAR JR
peter_john
Daray
adi
joe12south
Kevzip
Lukavi
gunnarsson, nice work and presentation, but please do remember this is a character concept, it's kinda hard to tell which is your main character and all the graphic elements are nice touch but don't let that lose the big picture..
Carnifex
Antne
eraserfoot
ashton
jubjubjedi
dragon4lunch
bluki, even tho it's a WIP it's a nice entry.
DANGER!
Leosdel, I am not seeing much pirate or demonic actually.. looks more like a warrior in a heavy armour..
RLyons
rydel
blackrobi
Bruno
B-nine
entdroid
Chuck,mate.
NicHolS
artdwx, post a bigger size next time please..
GunTrouver
-Food]-
rodimus25
xgabo
VampireHungerStrike
MrSmith
AndrewLey
propishus
mitze, 3/4? this was mentioned few times,
Red Mimic, nice touch with the violin and all, wish u tightened it up a bit and emphasised more on the character too. good stuff tho.

Not sure list
JOHNGRELLO , please post all images into one post.. , too generic? I suppose it's a good sketch, but seeing how this round is so tough..
corspufo , please post all images into one post, nice approach definitely, but it's more of your execution.. I think all the blacks really killing your work and more pirate?
yAdam, a little too generic?
ZonE, image too dark.. I think you could easily lose the top cropping and a little generic too..


Didn't make list
CreativeSmugbug, too sketchy? I kinda like the direction you took, but I thought it was too generic..
Robo-jing , don't see much pirate here but more of an demon, and too close to 3/4 rule.
The Original [E], Please put all your images into one post next time.. and wish u didn't cut the feet, is that tentacle around his upper body?
Graphuji, the character is too hard to read.
yoitisi, not finished
sony, wish you had put more time into it, but more so because, I am not sure if this character is "demonic" nor very piratey...
magma, this was mentioned few times, 3/4 character required.. and also the lens flare...
joey-b, not finished
sellis, not finished although it was really border if this wasn't such a tight round would have included it..
mudgit , wish you had worked on the body a little more, it just seems black at the moment.
Pixel Dust, the character gets too lost in all the blacks, wish you had worked on the character and clearly show his concept.
Skolld, wish you didn't have so much in the foreground, the black outlines really harm your image.
shidoken, doesn't read too well, the hand is a nice idea but overall maybe it's too demonic without the pirate or the lord?
savant, not finished
monstertree, I don't think this is a pirate.. demonic but not pirate..
Melis..., not finished
Slaving_maniac, not finished
Pizza Explosion, not finished
Sady, the character gets lost in way too much black.. it's too hard to see what you've painted.. less black next time, the background isn't as important as the character..
stephen, not finished
Daray, this feels a little too generic imo.
muleskinner, not a clear presentation on your character and too muddy in execution.
Alien Ape Star, not finished
surfacemonkey, not finished
punkbound, your character gets lost too much in the background and dark colours.. the head is nice tho..
radu.andrew, not finished
hallo, wish u had finished it.
ActiveVirgin , not finished
gene0i1mortal, too sketchy and it's not 3/4
shaktool, feels more like an egytian lord... I think it's the hat, not very piratey.


cheers, Min

OBLIO - Once again - i could not include all the images here

I have to make another take on the quality. bumskee is too nice!
One more thing - while the host can bring up ANY reason to cut down pieces - just like a regular client - i will try to cut onle on a technical/presentation basis.

Here is my list of cuts.

graphujii - needs more work. too soaked in the background. soem shapes are messy.
nkunleashed - shaped and values - don;t use black to for shadows. stay away from that black airbrushing - it's too flat. saturation and color needs a LOT more atention. work values and shapes.
ceartivesmug - make it black and white - you will see that your volumes don;t read right. work those values.
yoitsi - wip
sony - proportions, values - not good.
magma - same as knumleashed - no black for shadow - baaad. no airbrush - wathc your edges. for the torso and the shadows over the body - it's good that you doidnt used black - yet - your shadow is the same color as the light just a lower value.
Try to use a different temperature and saturation for shadow. example- warm saturated ligh = cold unsaturated shadow.
dig the boartds - the is A LOT of color theory here. oh.. and LENS FLARE? never will a lens flare peice make it to the poll. sorry!

THIS IS NOT DEVIANART!!!!! ups..

timothy - almost didnt' make it for me - shapes are ok - cartoon style it holds - saturation and contrast needs more work - it bears the same saturation allover and it makes it look flat.

sellis - wip
enbe - this one is crazy - i'm not sure if you know what you're doing there - looking at the hat for example nad how flat that looks - i'd say you push things until they seem right - lacking some background. i would let it pass as it might get one stray vote. not a winner. needs more work.
jon grello - seems like you can boost more then that. god sketch - it;s doesnt get the job though .
crospufo - needs more work - volumes, cleaning etc. see above about balck and airbrush. that sketchy linework does not work in the render - too messy
fidayeve - almost not to make it - looks broken at the neck, hand holding the skull doesnt belong to the body - proportions perspective etc.
robojing - FLAT! Volumes are a mess - his hands can barely read - shoulder pads are flat too. perspective is wrong. time to be carefull on the next one.
mudgit - nice and clean - yet you cover too much - head and body don;t seem together.
kreator - left leg , right fist - in trouble - but it could have pass.
pixeldust - FORM and VALUES - do the big shapes - don;t cover with black.
monstertree - comment - techicaly it would pass - i agree with bumskee - he;s on the other side.
bear jr - make it B&W - you will see how your values are not right - it's flat in some areas.
skolld - linework needs more care, forms and values - see above about the blsck shadows and airbrush.
shidoken - needs way more work
daray - in the end it's a bit flat - light is inconsistent.
sady - see above- blak and airbrish - you're not as aggressive as the others - but still your piece needs more attentions and clarity.
gerezon - flat
original e - shapes, proportions, anatomy - try to make everything look really 3D only with the line work .

carnifex - brother - i fear not to include you in the poll. you wil say it's personal and it's not. while the face is acceptable - the rest is a mess - if you wouldnt have written i would not understand the guts thing and - see his legs- no volume. the monster arm - a mess. values- coat and pands- same valeu - just someextra lines on the pants. pull yourself together- you need to work it up some more man.

antne - color needs attention - all is too saturated and it doesn't help you image. the pose is difficutl and the perspective had you - the legs - all the pants area is odd and flat. also - see above - no black for shadows - no airbrush

eraser foot - almost wouldnt make it - it needs a bit more work - and you have the skill.
ashton - needs more work.
danger - if i squeent my eyes - i can barely see him - time to study values. start with one strong light - make it consistent. small value range - there are tonds of exercises and tutorials on the forums.

bluki - i agree with bumskee - it goes up - wip good enough - clean etc. a good lesson here.

muleskinner- back to basics sir. form, light...
black robin - needs more focus on shapes, proportions, perspective and values.
punkbound - needs definition of shapes, better proportions, correct values, depth, and more color work.
artdwx - just a comment - character almost blends with the background.
radu - needs more work.
zone on e - it's on the edge - needs more work - play more with values and color temp. in the shadow.
gun trover - not a fan of photo mixing. apart forn that... you should have payed more attention into blending everything better. there is defference in the level of detail of separated parts.
food - torso, legs problems - too rushed - a bit flat - lost in a the background a bit.
gene- back to basics. try simple shapes. watch proportions, form...
shaktool - see above about black in the shadow and airbrushing.


i wish i could have time for the good entires too - they deserve more then just being on the poll.







Thank you for being brave to be in CHOW. CHOW requires character RESPEKT.

10% of the ones that are already on the poll shouldn't be there. We will rize the quality bar higher. Always !!!!

With all the cuts - we have A LOT of entries to the poll! AMAZING!
I want a harder job!
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Please try to save your progress - maybe a nice tutorial is comming out.
BE PROFESSIONAL - only finished and good quality entries will be taken to the poll. The host will make the selection.

DON'T FORGET YOUR PRIZE! THE WINNER OF THIS ROUND WILL SELECT THE TOPIC OF THE NEXT ONE!

And will assist me in selecting the entries for the poll. In one week we'll have a new client.Vote him now

WINNER - COLDRUM! yeeeey

[yAdam]

Hey bumskee/oblio, I don't mind if mine doesn't go to poll, but surely there can't be a rule about being generic. I definately wanted to be a bit generic, maybe I went too far? I kinda wanted a classic pirate look though. Anyway, it's your call bumskee

[magma]

I agree with about 90% of the entries in the final cut, however I only voted for one because I feel voting becomes sort of silly when you can vote for 1 to 25 different pieces.

In regards to a few pieces however....so line drawings are acceptable? Well, heck, than I could have just took the color layers off of mine and then you would have been OK with it! I took 'color or black & white' to mean tonal black and white value.

Also, if you're gonna cut NKunleashed for using black in his shadows, then you need to remove a few of the pieces from the poll. I understand it's hard with so many pieces, but be consistent.

Aren't these supposed to be character studies? Because two of the pieces in the final most definitely are not. I'm fine with not making it to the final, bumskee's and oblio's comments were all valid, but if I see a piece get cut for certain reasons and others make it that have all those problems, I think they should also be cut.

[Skolld]

I voted for bradley, I really liked this piece from the beginning. I think it incorporated all the elements of the prompt and had a well thought out execution.
Xgabo, I really liked your take on the theme as well.

On a side note: People, please don't turn this thread into a bitch-fest on why you didn't make it to the poll. You didn't make it, read the crits and learn. When dealing with any form of juried competition there will be disagreements about quality, concepts, and whatever. This is all par for the course in the art world. You have to have very thick skin for this kind of business. The best advice I could ever give is "get used to it." Your worth as an artist will never be determined by what exhibits or shows, or jobs you get.

Please use this thread to VOTE, Thanks (end of rant)

[mrgrumble]

i voted for....well the one that stood out the most as far as the thumbnail was concerned! had a good overall value spectrum! i did that becuase i know the choices had already been narrowed down, so this one had the most instant impact
i'll edit with the name of the entry once i see the results and hopefully a bigger picture

er...i still cant see the name but its the somewhat victorian, alluring pose holding the skull? nice take, and definetely different from most of the entries. a refined demonic pirate

[Brunob]

im voted for leosdel, because i like the details of his pirate.. and the colors used is very beautiful!!!

[Oblio]

you can use black as shadow - if you know how to make it to fit. the combo of soft black airbrush on saturated colors to give the sense of volume and shadow - it's just a wrong approach. it's a digital trauma...
there are no rules for quallity - like - ups - you used red - you're out.
some of the pieces i give crits and are still up there - as bumskee included them

we still have over 40 images in the poll. it's too much
i am thinking to make a selection of 10 each round. the rest - they should just know they need to work more next time.
it took me 5 hours for the whole poll today.

[mrdoom]

Magma: Shut up and draw. Spend all this energy on your next work, not on complaining so much.

Voted for Nutter. I thought it an engaging character. It has some issues, but really fond of it.

[peter_john]

voted for RLyons - best action
Entdroid - most unique (albeit weird) direction
xgabo - tightest execution

oblio, is there a limit to the number of votes you can place on these? Just curious.

[magma]

To all those who would say I'm bitching about not making the final, note that I said I was fine with it. I'm just challenging the moderators to be as consistent as possible with their criteria.

[bumskee]

Again my hats off to you Oblio for spending so long to sort this out..

"digital trauma" best describes what I had in mind too. The over powering black outlines with heavy soft, smudged blending and heaps of black.. ..... it's definitely not the best approach..

generic? I thought the idea was to try and avoid making your characters look generic... well I thought that was the idea, but enough so we can all relate and see it as a pirate too...

Line drawings are usually not accepted? well actually that depends, well I am not too sure actually.. but just because it's a line drawing it doesn't mean the "quality" isn't there.. right? and well if it's good it's good

as for being consistent.. well I am sure we can never satisfy everyone.. but it's not intentional.. and I was trying to be as fair and unbiased.. I am sure Oblio did the same too. You are also saying we are inconsistent but that also might just be your view.. and can you be sure you will be consistent if you were in our shoes? you are already making decisions on your view alone and sadly that's exactly what we do as well.. So please understand it's never easy or fun to go through all the entries and decide who goes and who doesn't.

magam, you say you are fine with it but challenge the decision?

[monstertree]

I voted for RLyons because of the colour scheme and atmosphere in the piece, a pirate lord trapped in the brig using his demonic powers to rise out is badass. And Eraserfoot because I just love the style of it. Congrats all who made the polls, it was much deserved.

[Tenno]

Turns out it is more useful to get cut from the poll! Thanks for the critiques Oblio/Bumskee - hopefully I can get cut next week and get some more good feedback!

[GunTrouver]

I didn't used any photos for my picture, everything is painted The colors destroyed a bit of because I had to hurry at the end. Thanks

[Blue Severin]

voted entdroid, cuz hers was the most fun and original while the others were same old.

[sve]

I skipped fridayeve by mistake and I liked his entry the most... forgive me, fridayeve. ... I like the costume and pose and face, and graceful, refined body language... and he does have something sinister in him... spoiled man. I like everything in your entry.

[timothee]

Hey Oblio, thanks the crit. I see what you are saying about my piece. What I like about CHOW is how it pushes you to get better as an artist. I voted for PeterJohn's piece cause he had a fun, well designed character, believable as a Demonic Pirate Lord.

[smugbug]

Thanks so much for the crits, guys! Why I'm doing this - to improve and the CHOWs are helping me on that road.

Now, back to work.....

[yoitisi]

Respect for both Oblio and Bumskee judging so many entries is tough and exhausting. The limiting of images for the vote sounds like a good idea.

Voted Coldrum, very strong in being both lord and pirate, although the demonic part could've been a bit clearer maybe. Many many other excellent entries though. Maybe I'll join and finish something for the next round

[Daray]

I love the fact Im on both the OK list and the Didnt Make it List. Does this mean Im special? :p

Thanks for including me into the poll, and a big thanks for the crits. my characters always tend to be kinda flat sadly, painting in colour isnt my best point at all, far far too used to sketching!

Anyway I voted for FOOD. I loved them all really, but FOOD's stood out for me the most.

[joe12south]

Oblio,
Thank you very much for the hard work you put into this, it is very much appreciated. These contests have proven very valuable to me. They kicked me in the arse so that I've been drawing and painting regularly, something I hadn't done in over a decade.

Everyone needs to appreciate that we're forcing this discussion group software to do somethingvery specific that it wasn't really intended to do, so it requires a lot of work, and compromises, on the part of the moderators to do so.

If any of the site owners/moderators are interested in building a PHP app specifically for managing these weekly contests, please private message me.

[Antne]

Oblio- wow, Thanks for the critique! Don't let the complaining get you down.

I know I'm guilty of complaining myself in the past and I can understand the feeling of being cut for reasons that feel arbitrary compared to the amount of hours spent on a piece. But, think about it. If we had an art director, all of our pieces would be sent back a dozen times with multiple changes and for much more arbitrary reasons.

Oblio and whoever our guest host is act as that art director and there is no better opportunity to learn than this place. It keeps me coming back whether I get votes or not, whether I get cut or not.

[Carnifex]

i'm very much AGAINST limiting it to 10 entries. where's the fun in that.

and i'm sorry,but i don't understand your choice. the pants i can understand,but "messiness",i don't get that. of course the monster arm's a mess,it's torn cloth coupled with seashells and whatnot. it's gotta be a mess.
as for the same value thing,i admit i have trouble there. i want it still readable,but not everything too dark or same grey. it's hard to pull off with pencil.
guts thing...it's tentacles coming out,replacing his guts...i don't understand how that's a criteria though,you not understanding it i mean. they do look like tentacles,don't they?

anyways,voted xgabo,captured it the best for me.

edit: sorry,but in conclusion your reasoning still sounds hollow oblio,even if i'll have to suck it up. looking at other entries,i just don't understand it. please explain.

[MrSmith]

i agree that the finals should be limited to the top 10 or 15. 40 is getting pretty ridiculous and considering most voters are only going to glance over a few, shrinking it doesnt sound to bad.

anyway, i think peterjohn's is most creative, but there are several good ones. Vampirehunger's and Dragon4lunch's are great too.

[dragon4lunch]

MrSmith you have one of the cutest avatars ever! "I draw gud" is just sooo cute! Fo shizzle!

By the way, you cheered up my evening by mentioning my entry among you favourites. Thank you!

[Nutter]

I'm just gonna for one, since there are too many great entries. My vote goes to Xgabo, just has the right feel.

Other entries that I like are from. coldrum, Bradley, peterjohn. Rlyons. I know i probably missed a few.

Great effort from oblio to get this sorted out. But It really sucks having to go back to the other thread and wade through the entires to see them in full. So maybe a smaller number of entries might be a good idea. I guess we'll see.

cheers.

[sve]

I'm against reducing finalists list... it would be all the same names every time and very subjective selection whoever will do it... it would be a selection by taste of just one or two people...at least in public voting we can see more diversity in opinions which is closer to truth and possibility for more of fresh ideas and artists to be seen and involved... You shouldn't disregard ambitions... people are not angels, they want their work to be seen by more people and it is a very big stimulus to grow... And overall I want to make a choice of what I like myself without any other selection done before mine.

[Nutter]

You make a good point sve. I agree that we would probably get the same people all the time, which would discourage others. But there has to be a way to manage this thread without it taking half a day to sort through.

Hard decision i guess.

[MrSmith]

well i guess its up to the mod since he has to do all the work.

it wouldn't discourage me if i didnt get in, and i'd rather see all the quality pics on one page, but thats just my opinion.

lots of great entries though!

[Red Mimic]

Voted for bradleys although there were a lot of other worthy entries so it was a tough choice. Thanks to whoever gave me some votes!

Is anyone else having problems viewing this thread? It's fine when I'm not logged in but it took me a couple of tries to even view this page when I wanted to reply. It keeps trying to download it for some reason.