so i blocked in main shapes like they said....

[MrArmadillo]

I've always been doing line work. But I want to be able to paint without using lines, rather by using shapes so that the finished product has no lines. I always see these works in progress that start with general shapes and work into more detail, but I'm still rather stumped on the process.

So what you see here is my attempt at starting with big strokes and blocking in shapes to get an overall composition and basic values.

Is this at all going how it's supposed to? What do I do from here? Should i have done something different?

How do you guys start blocking in shapes and defining muscles etc. without sketching anything out?

[Brendan N]

You honestly don't have to ignore linework when you paint. Marko D almost alwyas uses extensive before he even touches his paints. Just keep your lines on a separate layer aswell, and paint over your original lines.

If your drawing skills are stronger than your painting skills, why not use your drawing to aid your painting?

Something I noticed in your WIP is there are still more lines than shapes. You need to develop a feeling for shape - use some HUGE awkward brushes to help you here. Look at other artists who really really have an affinity for shape - Marko D, Idiot Apathy, Android there are tons of them here.

It would also be a good idea to start speed painting to help your shapes. Over time I'm pretty sure the process will come to you naturally.

hope all this dribble helped a bit,
cheers!

[Haymaker]

I had the same problem, and it was solved somehow with a lot of speedpainting. At first, it feels really unnatural to use two colors which seem to be the total opposite of each other, and mix 'em up...till I had a solid texture with shadowing. Just keep trying, that's all I can say about it.

[Dile_]

I was going to leave you some sort of critique, but to be honest, I have no idea of what is going on in your picture.. That is something you could work on.. Use
a big brush, and then set the shape! Not small scrible lines with opacity all over the place.. It makes it pretty hard to se anyhing.
If you gonna block the colors in like that..or the shapes.. Start easier imho!

I did a quick speedy-screen capture to show what i mean.

edit* damn, the video doesn't seem to work now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9JUvSQRiqQ

Just keep it simple, and keep working on it

[Gymnopedie]

use lines as a guide, you can always paint over them

also, try to make EDGES if you want to avoid having linework. where one edge (figure) meets another (cliff) and meets another (background)

stop using small brushes at this stage, use one double the size of that and that'll help you block in better (and less to fill in to clean up all the brush marks you have going now)

a good idea is to start with one main color, fill everything in using values, then start pulling up new colors. right now, with all that orange background, the cooler grey/beige areas aren't working and don't really make sense. all that light would make him a lot warmer, not cooler.

How do you guys start blocking in shapes and defining muscles etc. without sketching anything out?

a lot of still life practice, and lines do get put in sometimes, but either (like others said) on a new layer or painted over later. with myself.. I've been drawing since I was -2- (i'm almost 27) and have been studying art since I was 8. You just start 'knowing' where stuff goes.

digital is a great thing. it's like oils.. you can keep painting over or taking away (turpentine/delete button) as needed.

i would pull back a bit if you're not sure where things go and start looking at real life things that are similar to where you want to work. Like with this? Go to the zoo and invade the reptile area

[MrArmadillo]

I think that video has helped a bunch.

This time i used some HUGE brush and scribbled in some shape, and I saw an alien. Reading a scroll.

Then i started putting in some values like in the video, (some parts have more than they should right now) but the important part is there are no lines and you can (or at least i can) still make out the volume.

So here is a representative of the Vlaumont Party preparing for the reading of a legislative proposal before the grand council. No doubt the grand council will strike it down, as the grand council consists of a 7 year old who takes much entertainment striking things down. Especially planets.

still need C&C

[Seedling]

Changing your drawing tactic from lines to blocks is going to take a few drawings. Just keep cranking thm out quickly and throwing them away until something starts to click. Then keep starting new ones. Toss them in a sketchbook to chart your progress.

[MrArmadillo]

thank you seedling, i will do that.

just did another -

this is definitely going to take some trial and error, but hopefully I'll be able to use this technique and improve on the placement of values immediately, etc. So far I'm glad these don't use lines. Finally feels like painting rather than drawing.

[Gymnopedie]

definitely see a slight improvement, but you need to step back from the complex. Human faces with emotion is one of the most complex things out there, more so than a building or a spaceship.

go buy a red apple and a green one, then paint them 100 times (or anything simple like that.)

when I was 17-18, I took an illustration class over the summer at MICA down in Baltimore, and our 2nd assignment was to combine someone famous with an every day item (I did marilyn monroe as a set of house keys)... the day he gave us the assignment, he also tacked on "You will draw your ideas out 100x's"

no one made the limit, I hit 89 before passing out at 3am... but what it does is loosens you up, makes you realize that your first drawing usually is the worst and makes you not get 'attached' to any one sketch.

make your images no larger than 6inx6in @300 dpi and throw out most of them, or just keep repainting on top. start with greyscale first to get your lightning stuck in your mind with how it bends around objects, then later on drag in colors.

Finally feels like painting rather than drawing.

that's just a different way of working. all of my paintings start off with lines (though that's how I want them, I then go back and reline them) .. when i did oils, I mapped everything out with burnt sienna, then began blocking everything in. Think of lines as guides, not as something you have to avoid entirely. You don't have to use them if you are getting comfortable this way, just keep in mind that lines do not = 'drawing' all the time

[rullax]

Yeah ! It works i started to paint apple i found some studio photo (i didnt use eyedroper tool i had it opened under ps) and i draw it only 4 times and improvment was huuuuge here is my apple (its great practise coz is rly shiny and lights are not easy to draw) here is how im on it and now im going to paint them all 100 !

[rullax]

number 8 ! sorry ill not spam and poison in your thread any more sory
just work hard go pro ! (thats my moto and... actualy my dream too )

[Seedling]

rullax, go buy an apple and paint it from life, silly. :-)

[rullax]

ye ye i should... i know for you its rly funny maybe inferior but i got tablet maybe 20 days and im not doing art highschool (im doing technical high school) and for me this things are small wins tomorrow ill back with my brandnew real life apple ! yeahhhh

[Seedling]

Awesome. :-) Hey, I didn't go to an art highschool either.

[rullax]

here in czech republic (i know for many there is it 3rd world country, but its not) its little harder... there are art schools but they are only about traditional painting if ive known what i know now i would chose art school. anyway i think ill have problem to find some good design school too i hope there is chance learn it (to proffesional level) just by painting, sketching, reading books, and wathching vids.... but i want to do this

[Seedling]

You should start a sketchbook in the sketchbook section, rullax. That would be a good place to have this discussion, instead of cluttering up MrArmadillo's thread. (Sorry 'Dillo!)

[MrArmadillo]

what exactly is speed painting comprised of? Any suggestions besides fruit to draw? I'd draw me headphones or something else, but I'm guessing that'd be too complicated? I just don't wanna draw apples over and over again if I'm going to paint something a hundred times.

[MrArmadillo]

at least the thumbnail looks photoreal

anyway, I might do a bunch of these. Started with a chunk of shape, then chunks of color, and then started shaping it a bit and stopped there.

EDIT: yea ok i tightened it in more

[HunterKiller_]

Diggin' this last one. Huge improvement already
Maybe I should be doin' some of this stuff...

[Beelow]

I think if you ref images, personally take your own pics with your camera, then paint from those and do life studies of any and everything, you will learn a lot more. Then it will become easier to do the more imaginative stuff. Blocking and using line really doesn't how you approach it. still with line your doing shapes. learning and understanding form is what you need to know; values help achieve that. As seedling as has stated, you will not learn it overnight and you will have to commit to doing it over and over to get better at it. Good luck!

I suggest that you get these books too, to help with your studies: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=93866 my link is a bit tougher to get. you will have to get a bit torrent software. The other you need Winrar software to open those files. There is also a zipped file there you can download that one. I know my link works. I have not tested scriboy's links yet, but I am pretty sure that they work as well. Again good luck! Also check around this website. YOu can also go to CA exclusive content and swipe some files there to see some of how the more experienced artist work.

[Seedling]

what exactly is speed painting comprised of? Any suggestions besides fruit to draw? I'd draw me headphones or something else, but I'm guessing that'd be too complicated? I just don't wanna draw apples over and over again if I'm going to paint something a hundred times.

Nice job on the phone-thing!

Suggestions? Look around you. The world is full of many things. Take a look at the stuff in my sketchbook to see how fun everyday objects can be to paint.

"Speed painting" is just painting without dwadling. Or, painting as sketching.

You, too, should start a sketchbook.

[MrArmadillo]

thanks guys! it's actually a flashlight that you can wind up and generate power and stuff. It was sitting on my desk.

Beelow: as far as line/shape blocking vs. volume, the main reason I'm stressing changing methods is because, well, if you saw my old drawings you'd know. Thanks for the link; I'll explore volume and form and really practice. I feel like this is a spring board to start doing excersises.

Actually, my hope is that form and volume will come natural; I used to do 3D modelling, and in cinematography we're really studying light and the way it moves.

You guys have been so much help already! See you in the Sketchboooks.

[iPoke]

I use lines to preconstruct stuff, then I paint the color layers as blotches, take away the lines and only then start working into detail...for this to work you need to have a clear image of what you want to be doing though...works for real paints just as for traditional media