Graphire, Intuos, Cintiq, does it really matters?

[Dan_Grr]

I need to buy some sort of tablet. Im either getting a Wacom Intuos3 A5 or a Cintiq. Mind-blowing difference I know, but how much does it really matter (except I don't feel too comfortable spending that sum on a Cintiq)?

From reviews and posts throughout the net, I've read that people have pros and cons for either the regular tablet or the screen tablet. Some say the tablet is best because your hand doesn't stand in the way of drawing, which can be painful sometimes; others say a Cintiq does indeed accelerates production somewhat. But is it worth the cost? Other say they're disappointed with regular tablets because they don't like having to look to the screen while the hand is in another place drawing, in this case, in the tablet.

Im not new to tablets though. I've used them when I was doing an internship on non linear video editing on Avid systems and we used dual screens and A4 wide tablets. It was a fun experience working with it, and really helpful. They told me it was weird to work with a tablet at first, but I'd get used to it. After a couple of days, I was handling it pretty well. I didn't drew anything with it though.

I never worked with a Cintiq though, and Im not sure its worth its high cost, although it does look appealing and it'll probably save me some time, but then again, Im not going to be a full time illustrator, but I will want to have that kind of occupation listed on my designer's capable list of services I can do, if you know what I mean. Maybe if I just buy a regular tablet now I'll regret it not buying a Cintiq and buy it anyway a couple years down the road, thus wasting a couple of hundred euros I could use on the Cintiq right now... if I could afford it.

[blog]

you forgot volito in ur list

[Qitsune]

I don't think Volito exist everywhere. You can't buy one in North America as far as I know and there might be other countries that don't have the Volito.

[Dan_Grr]

Yes, I forgot Volito. I don't know the availability of it in some countries nor do I care honestly, because thats not the point...

[Shamagim]

With the Intuos you need eye to hand training. That takes time and effort, and some people think is not ideal to not been able to see your hand as it draws. But training is the key.

The Cintiq makes you skip that training...And you can apply everything you know about traditional methods better.

You already knew that perhaps,but the other factor to consider is that you need an Intuos + A screen you can trust it will show all the colors and the most accurate contrast for print. A Cintiq would be having a tablet+ a Screen you can trust.
A screen you can trust might cost from 300 to 700 $...


Things you need to ask yourself before making a decision:

- Is the time you´ll invest on training your eye to not look at your hand cost around 700$?
- Do you trust your current screen?
- Will it pay off?



Good luck man!



Volito is a toy, not a tool.

[2100]

Nobody needs a personal cintiq, it's just not worth it.

[Dile_]

2100 : And how do you know sir ?
I looked into your sb, and theres sure nothing in there that would "take a cintiq" to do, but, thats because your not so serious about art i guess.. ?
Or maybe because your art isnt so advanced yet. Thats no "insult" in
any way, i where just very confused over the way you pointed out your
opinion as "right".
You can do the same stuff on a graphire a6, as on a cintiq, thats for sure..
but if you have the money, why not make it extra-comfortable foryourself ?
especially if your a serious artist, who expect to make some money out if it, and
who draws daily/all time... I've tested a cintiq, and I must say, that if I got
the money needed, WHATEVER people think its nessesary /unnessesary for me.
I buy that thing.....NO DOUBT!... but thats just me, and my opinions.

Good luck choosing!

~Dile

[2100]

2100 : And how do you know sir ?
I looked into your sb, and theres sure nothing in there that would "take a cintiq" to do, but, thats because your not so serious about art i guess.. ?
Or maybe because your art isnt so advanced yet. Thats no "insult" in
any way, i where just very confused over the way you pointed out your
opinion as "right".
You can do the same stuff on a graphire a6, as on a cintiq, thats for sure..
but if you have the money, why not make it extra-comfortable foryourself ?
especially if your a serious artist, who expect to make some money out if it, and
who draws daily/all time... I've tested a cintiq, and I must say, that if I got
the money needed, WHATEVER people think its nessesary /unnessesary for me.
I buy that thing.....NO DOUBT!... but thats just me, and my opinions.

Good luck choosing!

~Dile

So you'd buy a Cintiq? With your mom's credit card I suppose.

[JenZee]

Dtemp needs to chill out lol.

Personally, the hand-eye coordination I needed to get used to a tablet took about two weeks at most. It really isn't that huge of a differece, but maybe that's just me.

I use and have been using a 6x8" WACOM Intuos 1 for about 6 years. It's starting to break on me, but I don't know if that's . Honestly I don't think anyone needs anything like a Cintiq, they almost feel like points of pride . I'm biased though hehe. But for your standard art needs I'd say the Intuos is more than enough. I mean... the game companies I know? They have like....two per company for the artists .

[m@.]

Well, you gotta try it. Cause it sure is a lot of money (for most of us). When I tried one in a store I was instantly seduced. I have one, I love it, and I think it's well worth the prize (very good 21,3'' 4:3 screen + A3 tablet + traditional style interface that you can rotate and move around). If you are used to draw traditionally I don't see how having your hand on the screen would bother you.
But, I think a lot of people won't really see that big a difference in working on either interface.. the big plus on the cintiq is in drawing. Doing accurate lines and curves with an intuos is not very intuitive, it's nothing compared to drawing traditionally. On a cintiq, it's (almost) same as traditionally. And you can rotate it like a piece of paper so you can always have the angle you want for your arm to make the right line or curve. Also, I don't know, I feel much comfortable drawing on it, it's like not working on a computer, but on something else.

So well, you really gotta try before chosing if illustrating is neither your primary occupation, nor your passion, I'm not sure it's really worth it.

[Automatic Kafka]

I would suggest you try the A4 instead of the A5 because I find it it too small to draw on with precision.


But then again, if you can afford a Cintiq, then by all means buy it. If you work professionally with illustration, then you should get the best tools available.

[Dan_Grr]

Im not going to work professionally with illustrations, not at full time anyway. However, they will be one of the services I will providing and adding to my design services (pre-press, graphic design, webdesign), hence the indecision...

[Mitchell]

I have the wacom intuos3 A5 and it's great. IMO the cintiq is a great tool, but I wouldn't personally spend that much for it when you can get the same results with the intuos.. Getting used to the intuos wasn't hard at all. You get the hang of it after a couple tries.

Wacom Intuos3 A5 all the way baby!

[Bowlin]

Well I had older version of intuos 12X12 and now have a cintiq ... I definitely understand what M@ is trying to say. I don't have to move the tablet around, but I do have to move my hand in different directions to help draw. With the intuos it feels ackward drawing in some directions compared to traditional drawing on paper.
I have no regrets buying the cintiq. If it broke and had to buy another one, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't see it as something to brag about. No one I know, except the people on this site would even know what a cintiq is... and I know that you CA guys could care less if I have a cintiq or intous (who gives a $#*t). I'm not very materialistic, but drawing and painting is so personally important to me, I'll shell out the big bucks if I believe it'll help me advance in the least bit of way. If more expensive oil paints are going to help me in some minor way I'll buy it even though no one will ever know the difference that I had to choose when looking at the picture.
When you live on your own and you have to buy a house, refrigerator, warsher and dryer, furniture and so on, spending money on a cintiq didn't seem much more different. (And I'm not rich, but not in debt either).

So with that said, I do like my cintiq... making digital art feel a liitttle more like traditional working and hands on. Overall it just makes the process more fun.

[clos3d]

If you have the money for a cintiq get a cintiq, however I don't believe is worth the 2k(I'm starting to change my mind tho). In your case I'd take a intuos, since drawing is not really the 100% you'd use it. Everyone saying that you can get the same result from a intuos or a cintiq is not true. After debating with my friend.... Yes you can get a similar result but with a cintiq you just have your natural stroke on it, you can move around and do better stroke which is proper to you....so no, the intuos wont get the EXACT same result.

Just my 2cent

[jadefoodog]

you know im going to half agree and half disagree with you . i will say your preformance with the intuos and cintiqe will always be diffrent but not because one gives better results heres my reasoning pros that have been using the intuos for years will probabaly not get as good or results using the cintiqe screen i bet if you watched some of them they probably out of habit use it the same as an intuos looking at the monitor while painting . while people with less exsperince will get better results with a cintiqe to to the lack of hand eye control thatdevelops . i may not draw very well (yet) but drawing in my sketchbook with a 4b feeels the same as useing my intuos to me after only a few months of use . i wouldnt say however that just because your friend works better with the cintique that it would be the same with everyone .

personally id get a nice intuos and get to learning errrr acctually i did and i am heh . word spend the other 1500 on your computer or energy drinks or something

[Chingwa]

Well let's be clear about something.... money does not equal value. I have the money to buy a cintiq. But my money is more valuable than the exorbitant price they are charging for the tech. to me, there is a bit of principle involved, and even though the boost in artistic productivity may be worth shelling out the money, the cintiq still does not hold $2500 worth of value. To each their own though.

Another option is to build your own. I've started a DIY cintiq project and so have a few other people. take a look here http://www.bongofish.co.uk for more information on building your own cintiq out of secondhand hardware.

[Chingwa]

Oh and I have to say dtemp, your post was laced with so many insults that my jaw dropped to the floor. Are you really basing the validity of someone's opinion on your own opinion of their skill in art!?!? jeezus.

[Shamagim]

Dan_Grr, I would choose the Intuos if I were you....The Cintiq is a luxury for the kind of thing you want to do.

2 weeks is about the time you´ll probably take to get used to the eye to hand thing. 9X12 is the ideal size.

Cintiq is still an amazing product tho.

[clos3d]

Well let's be clear about something.... money does not equal value. I have the money to buy a cintiq. But my money is more valuable than the exorbitant price they are charging for the tech. to me, there is a bit of principle involved, and even though the boost in artistic productivity may be worth shelling out the money, the cintiq still does not hold $2500 worth of value. To each their own though.

Another option is to build your own. I've started a DIY cintiq project and so have a few other people. take a look here http://www.bongofish.co.uk for more information on building your own cintiq out of secondhand hardware.

OMFG that's just insane hahahaha I had a good laugh with some OMG. Definetly gonna try that when I gather the mats

[Dan_Grr]

Let's suppose I do buy a Wacom Intuos3, which is the best brand now. Would the A5 be enough, or does it really matters and I should get the A4? For my north-american imperial friends, this is, respectively, 6x8 and 9x12.

And it's not 2500 us dollars here. The cintiq heres costs 3000 euros. In Spain, since it has a lower Adde Value Tax, it's 2500 euros. The euro is significantly stronger than the dollar, and 3000 euros is 4001 dollars.

[Mitchell]

6x8 is more than enough for me. But it just depends if you really like to put your whole arm into it when you draw. If so, I guess go with the 9x12.

[clos3d]

What Skeiff said

[Dan_Grr]

Thats also another stuff people have very mixed reviews. Some say if you're an illustrator get as big as you can. But then, having a too big tablet not only is costly but it tires the the arm to travel such a distance.

[Bammer]

Cintiqs make me chuckle. Somewhere some artist said "I love making art so much, I'm willing to spend anything on the tools." And some business guy down at Waccom said "Sweet. Now bend over."

Also, the whole tablet size thing is sometimes a lark. When I was a little kid going to the store to buy a graphire1 for the first time, I saw the different sizes and thought "Oh shoot. Well bigger must equal better." So I bought the bigger one. You know... more drawing surface. More detail. Awesome.

It never occured to me I could just zoom in.
Now I don't WANT a bigger tablet. I love a small tablet because they are more comfortable to draw on, more portable, and cheaper to boot. The only issue with the Intious is that it doesn't have the function keys on both sides, so if left handed individuals like myself want to use the touchstrip with their free hand (which is really really great when you map it to brushsize) then we are forced to buy the second size up.

[Sogbad]

Why can't you people just get along

The Cintiq is a great tool, expensive but good. I've used tablets for many years and could always paint very well with them, but I always had issues trying to produce line work and sketches, an issue that many of my co-workers shared. The Cintiq however overcomes this problem, allowing you to work comfortably and quickly entirely in the digital realm, no more working on paper, scanning and taking into Photoshop.

In a professional environment the Cintiq saves me and the rest of the concept team time, that's all, it's fun to use sure, but the time that we save using a totally digital work flow saves us maybe 10%, conservatively, now that 10% for 4 artist over a year adds up, which means I can have more work produced. The price of the Cintiq is easily offset by the savings it brings the company.

Although the down side to using one at work is that you start to crave one for home, now that’s the evil side

[2b BOY]

I have a small graphire 1 for travel and school. I use that mainly for Maya (painting weights, morphing etc.), and Z brush. Most of the times I just use my 9x12 intuos 3 at home for painter and PS because I can make larger strokes and use my entire arm. It's just personal taste I guess. I'd like to try out a Cintique some day though and see what all fuss is about.

[Aly Fell]

Nobody needs a personal cintiq, it's just not worth it.

I don't agree with this. I use a company one at work, and desperately want one at home. Your work will always be the way you do stuff; Ciintiqs or tablets or chalk on slate won't change anything about the way you see the world. They can however make things more intuitive, and a Cintiq is just that, intuitive. It is natural to work directly onto the media you choose - hand, eye stuff - and it's not really natural to have your hand drawing on a tablet a couple of feet from where the mark is made, no matter how you get used to it. The only prohibitive thing about Cintiqs is the cost, but creatively, they are invaluable! But hey, that's just my opinion! In the end it depends on what you want it for, whether it's right for you and whether you can afford it.

[Bammer]

I don't agree with this. I use a company one at work, and desperately want one at home. Your work will always be the way you do stuff; Ciintiqs or tablets or chalk on slate won't change anything about the way you see the world. They can however make things more intuitive, and a Cintiq is just that, intuitive. It is natural to work directly onto the media you choose - hand, eye stuff - and it's not really natural to have your hand drawing on a tablet a couple of feet from where the mark is made, no matter how you get used to it. The only prohibitive thing about Cintiqs is the cost, but creatively, they are invaluable! But hey, that's just my opinion! In the end it depends on what you want it for, whether it's right for you and whether you can afford it.

I've always felt this arguement was s flawed. To me, it's like hearing a person that hasn't learned to type, claim that if you don't look at the keyboard as you type, it's not natural.
Unlike most people I started drawing on a tablet before I started drawing on paper. When I came to artschool, I got to hear aaaalll kinds of moaning about this disconnect between screen and tablet, the way your pen slides around too easily on a tablet, even the way drawing on a tablet didn't smell the way drawing was supposed to smell.
As a guy that had used a tablet for four years, I thought drawing on paper was unnatural as hell. I had all the same problems they were having, just reversed.
The truth is these aren't flaws. They are just differences. They become "flaws" when really good artists make the switch, and for a short while there art isn't as good. Artists (myself included) absolutly hate this. That is how cintiqs get sold. At a graphic design firm I worked at, all the lead artists had big ol cintiqs and were baffled that I could draw as easily as they could on the graphire I brought from home, and was actually less comfortable on their cintiqs. The truth was then revealed that they were old, set in their ways, and didn't want to condecend to change to something different. Which is fine. That's all well and good.
But it still stands, that if your new to drawing, don't waste the money on a cintiq.

[Aly Fell]

I've always felt this arguement was s flawed. To me, it's like hearing a person that hasn't learned to type, claim that if you don't look at the keyboard as you type, it's not natural....
...That is how cintiqs get sold. At a graphic design firm I worked at, all the lead artists had big ol cintiqs and were baffled that I could draw as easily as they could on the graphire I brought from home, and was actually less comfortable on their cintiqs. The truth was then revealed that they were old, set in their ways, and didn't want to condecend to change to something different. Which is fine. That's all well and good.
But it still stands, that if your new to drawing, don't waste the money on a cintiq.

Wow, I didn't realise giving advice was a competition! I don't get the analogy. Typing is not about mark making. There is no subtlety in pressing a key on a typewriter or keyboard, it's the thought process that the machine is channelling. It's great you have a real feel for tablet working, which is what I learnt on, (if you ignore the years spent using paper and pencil before the invention of Photoshop!) However, Cintiqs for me were a step up and a return to direct communication with the marks I was making (drawing on a computer in as close a way to real 'analogue' mark making as it can be... for now). There is no right or wrong way, just have a go on someones Cintiq if you get the chance, and if you don't like it, don't buy one! It's probably not the best thing to start on if you're new to digital art and aren't looking at a career in it, but my opinion is I love it, and I don't for one minute consider the purchase of one to be a waste of money. So there, with chocolate on top!