hitchhiking the world of drawing (progress thread)

**antihero** · July 1st, 2003, 02:08 AM

@golgari: at least you're honest...

nono, I agree with you on the meteor and wacom sketches. Actually i just wanted to tell you, that my wacom has finally arrived, i've been waiting for a long time...

However, i made some sketches yesterday evening, better than the face & meteor things. I'm gonna post those ones in this evening, when i'm home.

antihero

PS: golgari, I nearly forgot to thank you for the constant critic and comment output!
PPS: i wanna get rid of this "Concept Art Groupie" title...

**amphex** · July 1st, 2003, 01:38 PM

Ooh..your stuff is looking good =)
I love that chest/back study..awesome stuff.
The killing.people tribute is cool as hell as well =D.

keep it up keep it up keep it up.

WHERE ARE MORE SELF PORTRAITS??

**MindCandyMan** · July 1st, 2003, 01:46 PM

those anatomy studies are looking good man. I would definitely do more of those.

**antihero** · July 1st, 2003, 02:01 PM

# 11

@ mcm: thanks, i'm gonna do more of em! And the mastes copies of course...

@ amphex: thanks and... here we go with another self-portrait.

I thought you would like it...

not really good, but i had to test Painter & Wacom. I think the clouds don't look that bad.

A simple sketch try some head & neck thing together.

Another one of those body studies.

And finally... The newest Self Portrait. I tried to really take some time to "finish" this one. And whether you belibe it or not, this stinkhead above really looks like me!

Thanks again for every critic! I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys!

antihero

PS. some more wacom stuff is right about to come... but i've allready got some problems with the driver, so right now it is just messed up...

**golgari** · July 1st, 2003, 02:27 PM

these ones are much better!

i don't like the wacom-stuff all too much, but it's nice to see you thought of the shadow of the tree...that looks quite good.
the head and neck thing looks really great. maybe his forehead is a little bit short, but considering the pose (i guess he's supposed to be tilting his head a little, right?), it should be roughly right. well done...that contour-look of a face is a pretty hard thing to master, i think.
that body study also looks good, once again. your self-portrait is also a huge improvement over your other ones. it's still lacking a little bit depth, though. maybe try to work with contrasts a little bit stronger (more white & black areas instead of so much grey. exaggerate a bit

)
also, do you really have such a broad chin? and is there really so much space between the end of the eyes and the beginning of the ear? keep on doing some more of these, i really see improvement

**antihero** · July 2nd, 2003, 02:36 PM

# 12

@ golgari
thanks a lot, you've got good eyes.. The things you mentioned about the selfportrait are correct. Maybe i'll do another one tonight.
Thanks as well for the encouragement!

Here are the "new" ones...

This one should be another body study but it turned out quite crappy... seems like the lines are too strong and clear.

I used no reference to do this one.

haven't used a reference...

Haven't used a reference as well. Tried to do some noses.

Now for some more wacom stuff...

I quickly sketched it yesterday. without reference.

Not too good. The back part of her Head looks very off.

I tried to draw some kind of a... how do you call that? in german it is "becher".

So, thanks for every critic and comment on these ones and good night...

antihero

**MindCandyMan** · July 2nd, 2003, 03:23 PM

Great studies man...the second anatomy study is really good. Shows some understanding of the muscle masses. For the time being I would recommend measuring everything out anatomically. For instance on the face...the eyes are halfway down the head...the nose is halfway between the eyes and the chin...and the mouth halfway between the nose and chin. Measure this way for the whole body and do it over and over until it becomes second nature. That will help tremendously. The woman is out of proportion and so are the faces....measure as much as you can...especially in the beginning. Also with the cup and the shadow be careful of falling into the trap of generalizing too much. Shadows are never one color. They are actually a myriad of colors. Look hard next time when you are painting from life and observe the shadows and how the reflected light makes some parts of the shadow lighter. One key fact to know is that the shadow is darkest where it is closest to the object actually casting it. So right next to the bottom of the cup would be really dark...but the further away from the cup the shadow goes the less "harsh" it will be. Keep it up bud.

**golgari** · July 2nd, 2003, 05:40 PM

actually, i like that body study aswell, i think the lines - except maybe the endings of the arms - fit very well.
you let it get a bit too slim at the bottom, though.
your body movement, without the references is pretty good, i'd say...maybe try checking some more masses (the head, the lower arm) the degree of the nose-line is a little bit too low, i'd say. not sure here though, but something's strange about it...
the english word for becher is cup, i think

**antihero** · July 3rd, 2003, 01:31 PM

# 13

Let's post some more...

@ golgari: thanks a lot you're probably right about this mass-thing. I'm gonna have an eye on that...

@ mcm: thanks a lot. Read below the pictures some more about this proportional stuff.

This is the womens-body-sketch. The right part of it quite sucks and the neck & head looks really weird.

The man's body. The arm's are too small, the neck looks a bit weird but i like the torso. Spent quite some time on this one.

Some kind of girl looking to the top. Rushed over, to make it short.

Some Proportion Studies i made some minutes ago.

ok. Time to have short look back. When i look at what i made before startin this thread, i'm really glad that i actually started it. The improvement is not too big, but i think at least it _is_.
Today i've gotten a Bammes book and i would like to get back some steps (not really, read further

). Doing human muscle studies is great but i think the figures i drew mostly had a weak proportion and were lacking of deeper knowledge of muscles (does this, grammaticaly i mean, make sense?). So i decided to go back to Proportions and start with some easier studies, but with trying to really understand em, nut just copying as i sometimes did in the past. So in future i'd like to do some simplified body studies combined with selfportraits, they're a good practice for a lot of things (as amphex said

). And maybe i'm finally gonna try some serious master copies (as mcm said

).
Beneath those more "serious" things, to make it not too boring, i'll surely go on, doing a lot of sketches of things crossing my mind.
Erhm. Maybe this is just blabla. But i really have the feeling of needing a defined direction, sort of what i want to head for.

Thanks for reading my nonsense and maybe doing a comment on the pics or the thoughts!

Have a nice evening!

antihero

**golgari** · July 3rd, 2003, 03:58 PM

the proportions of that first woman don't make that great sense to me, but that doesn't matter at all, because the picture has another great appeal - it captures the movement very good. although it hasn't really the form of a gesture sketch, i'd say it is one...
the man's torso looks pretty good. his right arm is also alright, the left...yeah, like you said, a little thin and his neck looks indeed weird.
that girl looking to the top, though it may be rushed, looks pretty good, i'd say. that circle in the middle of her neck is a little strange though...doesn't fit in with the flow of the rest of the neck - what's it supposed to be?
in your proportion sketch the breasts look a little strange. i'd say the nipples should be a bit lower, and the line for the chest should be drawn even more low...not sure here, though, since the sketch's pretty simplified

your thoughts about what direction you want to go sound good

**antihero** · July 4th, 2003, 03:36 PM

# 14

Thanks again for all the replies you guys wrote! it rocks to get a feedback on what i'm doing! Thank you very much, if you're heading for switzerland maybe you'll get a free beer...

So let's go again.

Let's start with the "important" thing. I made this thing yesterday evening and i don't know if i should laugh or cry... Laughing is the better choice i think. I really tried to _just_ copy what i saw in the Bammes book but... yeah, you can see for yourself. I'm gonna do antoher one tonight...

Ok, i decided to do a selfportrait once again. This time i used a pen and it turned out not that bad i'd say. I messed it up at the end when trying to give it some more contrast. Now it looks more... loose.

ok. I tried a different angle and it seemed to work out interesting... then i went to my nose... and totally screwed it up! oh my... i'll give it another try...

Oh... i feel sorry for putting it up... I tried to do some drapery thing or at least some shading but it looks horrible...

I really had to put up this one. I tried some eyes and somehow i got reminded of the "brown eyed girl" song. Lagwagon that a cover i would die for. Only wanted to share...

Here is another Sketchpage

more art, less talk... i defintely have to learn about that one...

feel free to push me some levels down or lift me up when giving sort of a critic!

antihero

**antihero** · July 5th, 2003, 10:55 AM

# 15

Here we go, i made some more Proportion Studies from the Bammes Book:

This one seems a bit messed. i tried to combine the back & front view but it sucks. The front view seems a bit better thatn the last one i did, but still not great.

Some mistakes in both of the figures but the proportions fit this time pretty good.

I started my first Master Copy and.. oh... it... just... ehm... sucks hard.

I'm gonna post it in some days because i've got the link to the original only at work... and without the original it's hard to compare...

I made some more Wacom & Painter Tryouts and here is one of them.

Some sketches of the creature i made... they're not too good but the idea should be visible. I tried to do some combination of a snake & turtle thing.

So here's the result from Painter

I'm gonna do another one of this with some more ideas behind it. Right now i think the creature would die very fast because it can only move slow and is very... harmless...

antihero

**Jeff Gran** · July 5th, 2003, 03:20 PM

Your proportion studies are getting better. You should just keep doing them until you can do it from memory.... hey, so should I! anyway, keep on goin man.

**antihero** · July 6th, 2003, 01:56 PM

# 16

@ Jeff Gran: Thank you man...

Here are some Sketches i made today.

Tried to do some halfway realistic shading...

Well this is a Redbull i tried to draw.

I also made another Proportion Study because the past ones don't seem to _really_ fit. So i took the Bammes thing i made another Copy. I made a grid in which i pasted the body. this time it really seems to work. I like this one.

I also made another Selfportrait. I tried to use a different angle and do some more shading but it seems "a bit" mesed up.

I also worked on my turtle thing... Here is a sketch of it:

I really like it even if it is veery loose and sketchy. The idea behind it is, that the teeths of this creature are very small, also it's mouth is not very strong. The fins are a bit small to move very fast with the huge shield on his back. So i had the idea to stick a scorpio's tail to my turtle so it can hide silently and wait for a portion of food to come it's way... Not sure if it would really work, in the upper left corner there is a sketch of the creature waiting for food.

So that's it folks!
I will not post tomorrow because i've got to help a friend with it's computer in the evening. But i will surely draw and you'll see the results a day later...

Leave comments and critics in this thread if you want to.

antihero

**golgari** · July 6th, 2003, 05:57 PM

hmm, i don't know the bammes book (yet...my art teacher has promised me to bring her copy of it to school tomorrow, so that i can take a look at it and decide if i'll acquire it), but those chests look a little strange...at least in the first sketches. they got better, the last one looks quite promising.
still, his breast is a little too small for the rest of the body, i'd say...those skeleton sketches are great.
your selfportraits are improving, too. especially like the pen ones. in the last portrait you drew your face contours seem a little bit small again, though. i don't know if maybe your face is really like that, but i've got the feeling that the head around your direct face contours (brows, eyes, nose, mouth) always tends to get a little bit too large

**antihero** · July 7th, 2003, 05:35 AM

#17 - Master Copy

@golgari: Are you sure about the breast size? I really worked on this for a long time and i even measured it out of the Book... I screwed them up for three times because i also thought that they're bigger, but i decided to draw "what i see" and not what i expect them to be...Confusing. It is, of course, only a "normal" body, not much muscles. However, i'm gonna have a look at it, maybe i'm wrong again. Thanks for the encouragment and you're probably right with the head size...

So as i said, no "new" stuff from me today but i found the master copy in my Bookmark Folder. Here we go.

Original

So... and... ehrm. Here is the first try. To me it just feels like this is one or maybe two numbers too big for me. I just tried to make some outlines to get a basic overview about what is located where. But it looks sooooo off. I tried to give some details to the gamekeeper's (Can anyone say what a Gamekeeper is?) Backpack but it really looks bad... Hmmm... What do you think? Maybe i should just wait some days/weeks and then try it again? Maybe i should go trough it even if it is hard? Maybe i just chose the wrong picture? Maybe i used the wrong brushes? ... etc.

Anyway, here it is:

By the way; Is there any tutorial or basic FAQ about general Mistakes, Do's and Dont's when copying a Masters Piece? Wanna write about your experiences? I would be glad to hear something about it...

Oh... someone once wrote something about defining things more with their negatice space... And yesterday i just realized what that means... Thanks for the advice, this probably is one of my very basic "mistakes"!

antihero

**MindCandyMan** · July 7th, 2003, 08:12 AM

That master's copy is coming along nice antihero...my only suggestion for master's copies is make sure you are patient and scrutinize every brushstroke and think about "why" they did what they did...learn from their technique so you can use it later on down the line. Always keep thinking when doing it. Keep it up bud.

**golgari** · July 7th, 2003, 12:56 PM

hmm, it just looked like it's too small to me...although the position of the nipples is perfectly right...you measured them in all directions? maybe they're just not broad enough...
maybe it's also just me who's wrong. i'm not that much an expert in anatomy, too

also, you're drawing the actual breasts, and not the muscles for the breast, am i right? because the breast muscles are indeed smaller than the actual breast...
that master copy is going in the right direction...i don't know, i don't know that much about doing these, but personally, i thought they are only helpful if you want to learn something by doing them. so you should maybe do something related to your actual focus point? (ie anatomy?)...i don't know, i think this picture would be great for learning about using soft colours, but if you don't want to improve your colour use, maybe it's better to choose another one?
just a thought...

**antihero** · July 8th, 2003, 02:41 PM

# 18 - Proportions & Figures

@ mcm: two things: first, your optimism is overwhelming... Can't see what in this picture is "coming along good", but thanks either way... :9 And... i saw an old Woman today... Guess what Letters where on her handbag...? Yeees... "MCM"...

@ golgari: I think the breast really was not broad enough... but not much...

However, thanks. Good thoughts about that "Master Copy thing"... I think that would make more sense.. I'm gonna think about it... What do the others think?

However. I was very frustrated yesterday because i could'nt draw anything... The sketches i made yesterday turned out real bad solet's have an eye on the today-stuff...

Some proportion Studies. I did not use any reference.

Again some Proportion Studies. No ref. Made them some minutes ago.

The following sketches were made during lunchtime without any reference straight out of mind.

I drew him over another drawing that's why his breast and the upper part of his torso might look a bit weird. Quite contented with this one.

Less talk more art...

antihero

**golgari** · July 8th, 2003, 05:40 PM

good work today!
the "skinned" ones on the first page still look a little strange, but the skeletons look very good. your feeling for poses is pretty good - especially the last page (the woman) has a very dramatical pose - but the other ones work very well, too...

**Jeff Gran** · July 9th, 2003, 01:16 AM

wow I really like those last few...the poses you made up. very good for coming out of your head. It looks like the proportion studies are really helping.

**antihero** · July 9th, 2003, 02:48 PM

# 19 - Bodies & Negative Space

Thanks both golgari & Jeff, it's good to get some encouragement!

Hmmm i tried two selfportraits yesterday but i ended up with a medium life crisis because they turned out... to be frank, crappy. I wont post em with the IMG Tags because you shouldn't look at them, if there is someone who is interested anyways heres the link:

can cause serious health problems
get some safety glasses before looking at this...

However. Here's the rest:

I tried to copy a photo to try the "negative space" thing. The head/face sucks.

The same environment as some posts earlier. I had to draw fast because lunch time was ending...

Tried to do some guy hanging on that cross. Tried to include some basic perspective things.

This one shows a... naked mage...

I drew a body and realized that the pose looks like he... hanging in the air and it reminded me of some kind of a mage, reloading it's fire forces... moments before detonation, something like that. The pic also reminds me that i should start to sometimes draw bodies _with_ clothes on em... we'll see.

That's it...
two question you could maybe answer me:
1. What is this "eatpoo" vs, "conceptart" thing about? I've read several posts with "die eatpoo'ers" & co stuff but couldn't find a clue about how this war started... May anyone give some hints?
2. With what brushes/settings do you paint in painter? There is whole load of brushes but i can't really figure out what's best... Some Suggestions anyone?

Would be great to get an answer on those questions. Thanks! Oh, and critics are still very welcome...

antihero

**golgari** · July 9th, 2003, 07:29 PM

the environment looks a little better, i think. more generalized, not so symbol-loaden...
your second self-portrait goes in the right direction, i'd say. you need to take a closer look at the shadows on the face, which imply the shapes that lie underneath the skin. for example, the eyes usually lie in a kind of "eyehole" in the skull, therefore there are usually shadows around the eyes. the shape around the eye is kind of "bulgy"...
also, the lips are "higher" than the chin, therefore there often is a shadow under the lips...take a look at things like that.
your figures, like always, are quite good. don't stop practicising them, though!

**antihero** · July 10th, 2003, 03:04 PM

# 20 - figures, a selfportrait and some color

@golgari: thanks a lot, you're the man! Do you never get tired replying to this thread? However, i really appreciate it!

Here we go!

I made another selfportait to practice the shade thing. Below the nose it starts to get weird. The upper part of the face looks not too bad.

Some more proportion studies, without reference.

Another body. I tied to draw the arm round the bones which i made first. Maybe a bit too long.

Made another sketch about this mage i posted in my last thread. here he is, with clothes.

Again the mage, digitaly painted. First the body...

...Then a clothing sketch laid over the body sketch...

...and finally an attempt on coloring it.

Hope you enjoyed this "anniversary" post and as allways, leave your notices after the beep". ---------*

antihero

**golgari** · July 10th, 2003, 04:17 PM

well, it's a give-and-take thing

your selfportrait is a little better.
i think you need to spend more time observing, though.
for example, your ear is much too high. and there should be less space between the right eye and the nose - or the right side of the nose needs to be shaded more - at the moment, the nose is looking much too broad on the eyelevel.
the bodysketches are very good...the clothes...hmm, the ones on the first picture are too independent from the body, i'd say, they make it look a little flat. the ones on the second picture are much better. the coloured version lacks depth again, though - because you didn't really shade that much.

**antihero** · July 11th, 2003, 02:24 PM

# 21 - face & sketches

@ golgari: cool that you seem to be practizing and not only talking about these wise words. hats off.

So today... ehrm... today.. it was my last day on work because i'm heading for holidays now. I was late yesterday so i am very tired. Here's the outcome anyway.

Another environment thing. Different perspective, but very unfinished.

a quick & loose skeleton sketch. made some more, not worth being posted.

A quick sketch of a mage's face. Painter.

Same mage's face. Coloured. Not really finished but i think it's one of the better faces i made until now... no ref used.

So that's a weak post. However, i will try do work with more patience because that's what i'm generally acking of...

antihero

**golgari** · July 11th, 2003, 02:59 PM

the pose of that skeleton is good. his head looks pretty weird, though.
the first sketch of that mage's face doesn't look all too bad - the second is worse, though. you kind of lost the 3dimensional feel of the first one because of the colouring (especially concerning the forehead) - you need to use more tones! don't be afraid to leave white areas

also, he has got a VERY slim face and a very huge nose...
think of the fact that the nose between the eyes usually is more of a bridge between the nosetip and the forehead...it's pretty steep from there down to the eyes, so there need to be hard shadows...usually.

**antihero** · July 12th, 2003, 11:00 AM

# 22 - proportions & selfportrait

@ golgari: you'r right.

The face _is_ slim. The nose _is_ big, and the second _one_ is worse. Need to work on faces...

However, here is the today-stuff. I tried to do some more quality than just quantity.

The latest selfportrait. I really tried to be patient and look at what i draw... to me it looks a lot better than the last one, though there is still a lot to improve... (mouth, nose to mention the obvious ones)

Made them this afternoon. I think the skeletons are ok for now, i've still got to work on those skin-proportion studies, do some women proportion-studies and then, i'll move along to the individual parts of the human body.

Made some front-, profile- and backview of the skinproportions. They don't seem too bad, but the last two look rushed over (in fact they _are_ rushed over) and somehow a bit off. As i said, i'm gonna do some more tomorrow and then have a look at womens proportions.

antihero

**golgari** · July 12th, 2003, 02:05 PM

the self portrait is much better this time - that patience paid off!

the skeletons are indeed very good, like most of your skeletons...hmm, yeah, the skin ones might need a little bit more work...
by the way, what kind of pencil do you use? it may be a good idea to get a softer one, especially for things like the selfportrait, where shading is pretty important...

**antihero** · July 13th, 2003, 11:40 AM

hello,

i wont post for the next 6 days. I'm going to spend some days in a holiday camp with kids. there wont be any time for drawing or just thinking about it, because it's a a full-time job. But after this vacation time, i'll be back for sure!

best wishes!

antihero