||"Where's Ctrl+Z?"||Crummy Life Drawings by an Idiot *Boobies!**56kDeath!*

[Idiot Apathy]

Closeded! See my other thread for more of the same
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...ewpost&t=56810



Hey guys, I need to learn to draw...

I've pretty much taught myself entirely on digital, have very little experience behind a pencil haha. I don't exactly understand line, that's just wierd crap that I swear you all are making up! Anyways ...

So, I started up with figure drawing this semester; I've got Figure Drawing 2 twice a week in the mornings and Figure Drawing 1 twice a week on the same days in the afternoon. (Heh, it's pretty bizarre to have them backwards but hey, I get to draw more.)

I previously made it to around half a semester of Figure Drawing 1 a few semesters back - not nearly enough! Can't say I got too much out of it

Anyways, I'm going to try and post much of what I do each week in here in the hopes that the brilliant and kind community here can help me out! Point out what I'm doing right, doing wrong - give me hints, tips and ideas to explore; you know, show me some love

So, could you? Would you? Help me pleeeeease!

- - - - - -

Oh, do note: I live in Utah - practically an oligarchy, hence you will sometimes see the models from Figure Drawing 1 eh, "draped" so to speak; o'well . . .

- - - - - -

Ok, let the mockery begin! I mean crits and comments!

Going to try and keep things chronological -

Sort of just let loose here, seeing what we remember - or what we've forgotten... ugh! I think this was after a few quickie warm-ups. I don't think I like 4B...


Little bit more time on this one I think, man - looking back now it's amazing how much of the process, from what little I got, from Figure Drawing 1 that I've forgotten. (Almost all !) Still just sort of playing it by ear...


Lil' more time here too I think, man - still not really using any sort of lay in or guidelines; ugh! Haha... Still not liking 4B.


Ok, so now he's reminded us about layins and line direction! Sweet! Never really used the sort of uhm, damn what's that called? Enveloping! Hey I think I finally sharpened my pencil on this one.


Yup, Figure Drawing 1 - "draped" models for probably the first half or so. Anyways, little warmed up for the day - sharp pencil and all. Starting to remember/re-learn this lay-in thing.


Lil' longer - starting to think about overlaps and just what I need to say with my lines... hmm hmm...


This one is one of those "continuos" line drawings, put your pencil down and never lift up. Most people seemed to hate them but I could feel my head working a bit differently so I think they are pretty cool. Can't exactly expect aesthetic results but hey...


This might be the next day, I dunno... more lay-ins and emphasis on line direction. Quickies.


Same.


Ok... these are strange. Starting with just negative shapes then building up with positive shapes - also a really different way to see things, could definetitly feel it working though. I think these are out of order...



Same thing, Negitive shapes then positive - building up like a jigsaw puzzle. Wierd but good. Yeah these are out of order, should be last... meh.


Just a quickie, starting to think more on overlapping... muahah. (makes so much more sense!)


Lil longer on this one, actually scanned these in first so they look a bit different. Tweaked the settings later to get it to look more true to life rather than this sharp pumped up high-contrast crap.


Yes yes I know, shouldn't ignore faces - look I've got plenty else to concentrate on right now We'll get to faces soon enough, I need to figure out how to use a pencil and how to draw first.


Another quickie layin - switched to HB today; I like it better for sure. Using those full graphite pencils by the way.


Just negative shapes, maybe I cheated a little bit with the uhm - envelope but it was still good practice!


Same.

Ok, let the mockery begin! I mean crits and comments!

So, could you? Would you? Help me pleeeeease!

[Sodbrenner]

hey man, this looks good already! your proportions are right, the lines are where they're meant to be so in my humble opinion theres not much to crit, exept for the hands, which look a little small. whatever, i think youre on the right way! : ask some of the freakin dudes here, to give you some more help, dont know what else i could say...

[Lee W]

looks okay to me <shrug>

[Tigermilk]

hey man, awesome lines! I will soon start some life drawing classes too, so it's especially inspiring right now. makes me want it even more! ,)
Be careful with propotions tho, hands seem a bit small sometimes.

Really cool, keep it uP!
tiger

[Infinit]

hey you! Idiot! I'm glad to see you here! (always wanted to say that without ppl geting mad at me ^^)

let's go and get to the mockery ... I mean the c&c:
-first of what I see from your drawings is that you concentrate on the line VERY much
-you maybe don't like 4B but you'll love it soon enough
-when I do figure drawing I try to work "3D" which means I always use shadows to enhance the volume and form
-most of the lines are so straight they look like drawn with MS paint, human forms are round (mostly) never forget that
-spend more time on every single painting if possible, use all the time you can get from the model
-when using the pencil don't think "have to use ocopacity 100%" the 4B gives you a large variety of value and broath (try on a paper how many different "brushsettings" you can achieve with only that one tool)
-plz draw fingers faces tows wrists elbows and all the other shit you maybe don't want to draw but which is THERE
-draw everything what you can see
-maybe a bit of the chair she is sitting on, too

I'll get back to you if I remember more
I hope I didn't discourage you but figure drawing isn't about simplification it's about observation

Ctrl+Z is white (mostly) has the size of a post stamp and lies at a place where one can't find it ^^

keep it up dude

[Alcian]

Okay... you don't need help, your doing great .
Your line and proportions are really improving.

Somethings I will mention are;
- maybe you are being encouraged to really focus on your line in your L-D classes, but I think you are relying on it way too much. Try not to make it so heavy. When you 'plan' out the figure, do it lightly. Then when you have the basics down, start applying heavy lines where you observe them. Also, let the values dictate the forms. Look at some of Loomis's work and see how he sometimes never uses lines.
- negative space is not only about the obvious shapes you see. Its also about the irregularities on the surface of the figure. Just use your pencil and, at a distance, hold it up against a feature you perceive as straight (such as the back, or the arm). You will notice the subtle negative spaces that gives the arm (etc...) more defintion.

I have no idea what 'enveloping' and 'overlapping' are, but I love the idea of just doing a negative space studies. Oh yeah and always render the face in longer poses - it's good practice. If it bothers you, then make it the first thing you render, then its easier to correct things if you have made mistake.
Hope this helps
~a

[Zaknafain]

good stuff. nice too see your life drawings. Love continuos live drawing as well.

I think some of those are still a bit stiff. perhaps concentrate more on seeing and understanding and less about the drawing.
also practice blinddrawing (drawing the model without looking at your paper). this will help your perception.

oh and just by the way: wheres the artnerd forum? I can't find it anymore. Send me a pm if the url has changed or if you need a new host for it.

[gaijin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ediummaybe.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...lillonger2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...6lillonger.jpg
For your first figure drawing sessions you're doing fantastic. These ones really pop. You'll do thousands of drawings you hate to get to the ones you love, so the pencil miles count. Just keep it up! One thing that I wish I had done more during my classes was studying anatomy independently. Maybe you can leave learning the names of every muscle for a little later but learning WHAT you're seeing under the skin helps immensely. The "landmarks" that you can see under the skin will give you extra things to reference when setting up proportions and relationships within a drawing.

Keep it up, you kick so much ass already you'll be unstoppable soon!

[j a k e]

Hey bro. For someone who says that can't draw, well, your doing something right

Awesome start on this SB man. Better than me, so i don't have much other than asspats. Really cant wait to see how everything turns out!

Glad you made a traditional SB.

[skullsquid]

Finally Tom, some drawings!

Proportions overall consistent, line quality is interesting and not chicken-scratchy, which is very good.
Of course you might have some uncertainties here and there with faces and such but nothing that can be overcome with practice.
You got a promising start Tom, don't let it go to waste.

[blanquish]

hooray, new sb.
The only thing i should add, is that it would be worthy to render some of these, and try some charcoal perhaps.
See rodrigos sb if you havent for the exceptional life drawing goodness.
good luck sir

[rodrigo!]

wtf man these arent as bad as you say!
you have a few approaches, like you can start by looking only at shapes and angles, or start with masses, eg. rib/pelv/skull. i think a mix of both is good, starting with the overall shape then adding in those 3 masses and how they are compared to each other..e.g the skull is to the side of the rib etc.
i think for now just keep practising because its a tough thing to get used to.
EDIT: LOVE the title, totally made me laugh harharhar!! id love to see you say that to the teacher rofl

[Tenelaus]

hey man, I don't think I can give any advice that hasn't already been given yet, but just dropping a note to say how awesome it is that you're getting some trad going on, looking forward to seeing where it takes you!

[bunny]

You seem to be grasping the graphite medium pretty well from what I see. Looks like the "envelope" thing is working fine for you... kinda like a sculpture. Starting out with a block andthen chiselling at it until it takes a form. All looks fine to me... as for crits, I don't think I can say anything that hasn't been said. Keep it up man.

[Idiot Apathy]

Thanks guys! I wouldn't normally update without something to post but... yeah, y'all have been so kind and helpful that I just wanted to make sure I thanked you in a timely manner. You're getting me all inspired for tuesday! I'll try to have this next weeks batch up by thursday or so.


-Sodbrenner: Thank you! You know lines are starting to make a little sense - what they are supposed to do and just how much translating and ignoring needs to be done. Thanks for the crits on the hands, I'll be more conscious of that from now on for sure!

-OldNoobie: Ha! Thanks.

-Tigermilk: That's great man! Give me a heads up when you start, we can help each other out maybe yeah? Thanks for the crit on the hands, will be more conscious of that for sure from now on! Thanks for dropping by and the encouragement!

-Infinit: Hehehe, being labeled as an idiot has lots of advantages for sure. Thanks very much for the mockery, I mean C&C, just what I needed and very helpful. As for 4B, is that your weapon of choice? Right now I'm enjoying just a plain old HB, gives me a hard point that doesn't dull quickly and lets me draw a lot lighter than usual (actually I never used to draw light, got really really messy!). Lines are really straight I know, most of which are from the quick drawings where we either focus just on warming up or on a new concept, hopefully I'll get quicker soon and be able to show form a little better; great crit thank you. Love the digital to analog analogies heheh, I did buy another 4B thinking it will come in handy for some darker values and broader strokes - just barely like I said above, messing around with "opacity", makes life so much easier. Ok ok, I'm going to see what I can do to get "fingers, faces, toes, wrists and elbows" and "all the other shit I maybe don't want to draw" in, I think I'll have to take a few poses and just do those bits though, only so much time! Good tip to ground her with the chair a bit too, thanks. Hope you'll stop by later too, good stuff!

-Alcian: Haha! Thanks! I'm feeling pretty ok about this drawing thing lately, so many missing links in the chain before. Great crits, thank you very much! Yes the class emphasis is line right now, especially the beginning class - I know the advanced class is going to focus a lot on value and shading though, but I think for the most part I'd better focus on whats in front of me and leave that till then. I've got to go peek at loomis work now... Thanks for the crit on the light then heavy, the 4B I was using was a little hard to control at first so I switched to HB and that got the message across for sure. Will also pay more attention to the irregularities on the figure surface, that makes a lot of sense. Enveloping helps me out a lot, it sets up basic proportions for me and some good landmarks/guidelines to measure. Basically and as the teacher explained it, envision the model wrapped in saran wrap, how there would be a line from say her head to her shoulder, shoulder to her arm or knee or whatever. Overlapping, just in my definition is where shapes sort of converge, forarm into arm sort of thing and what you can do with line to suggest that better. Faces? K, I think I'll need to do just faces on a few pose so I can focus and actually learn something - I know we'll be doing just face studies for a little while too. Thanks very much, and you were very helpful!

-Zaknafain: Hey Tobi! Thanks for dropping in! I'm really have a lot of fun with these life drawing sessions and finally learning a bundle about drawing, so nice to have such a great test bed. Stiff? Yes, I think you're right - good crit about seeing and understanding instead about "completing" a drawing, makes a lot of sense. I felt a bit of that, my brain working a bit differently for sure (had to force it at times) when doing the negative and then sort of jigsaw puzzle postive shape exercises. Very cool. Artnerd forum just seemed to go down for a day or so, you might be the only one who missed it! haha!

-Gaijin: Thanks a lot! Those I think are some of the longer ones, last one might even be 25 minutes. I hear you on the pencil miles, man I need pencil miles. When I took what little I took before of the Beginning figure drawing class I showed up for a few days we were learning anatomy for the artist, simple stuff that makes it's presence known - incredibly handy, I was really surprised how much it added and how important it was. Thanks for the tips and suggestions, will put them to use!

- j a k e: Hehe, well - maybe I haven't been compeletly forthcoming with the drawing thing, I do know a few things about drawing, things stored up from books and the great examples here at CA; but in truth up until recently I had absolutely no concept of what drawing was about and what I needed to do with lines, what lines were key and what lines would only distract and confuse. I drew randomly really, I didn't even realize that I needed to translate things man! Thought I could draw exactly what I saw. Better than you? Shuddup ! Keep dropping in, need to head over to your sketchbook myself buddy, cheers!

- evildisco: Hehe, thanks troy. You're one of the reasons, motivations really for me to start this sketchbook! Glad to have your encouragement and help. I've never understood the chicken-scratchy lines, only tried it once or twice as a kid because I'd seen others do it haha. I actually told a kick the other day in class if I didn't see him making some bold confident strokes I'd punch him! Anyways, thanks for the encouragement - hope you keep dropping in and spilling the beans!

-blanquish: Woo to new sb! The Figure Drawing 2 course is going to dive right into charcoal and all that so I can't wait to get all messy. I think the curriculum is really good for these classes so I don't mind sticking to it and trying to focus on the day's lesson or exercise. Rodrigo's sb man, guh... inspirationally depressing. Chock full of goodies though for sure. Thanks for wishing me luck!

-rodrigo!: Hahaha, thanks Rod. But really, I thought I was bad (actually in the, uhm half year or so since I had that little bit of life drawing things are making so much sense. I'd attribute it to actually drawing a little bit every few days or so and having some really great examples here at CA.org - your sb included.)(man that's a lot to have in parentheses). Like I mentioned way above, I showed up enough for figure drawing one to get a good feel for the curiculum - seems we focus on warming up here in the beginning, line direction and everything; giving some of the others who don't normally draw a chance to work out some technique kinks etc. Then I remember vaguely doing masses, starting rounded then modifying and slicing bits. Doing some more bridgeman-esque stuff too. I'm going to need your help on those later I think for sure! (everything else too haha!). The title? Well, it's funny but - I've actually done that. Spent a long day or night painting on the computer then have class later or in the morning and actually think or even reach for ctrl+z when line goes wrong. I attribute it to sleep deprivation . Oh hey, I figure you'd know for sure - what do all the pencil designations mean? HB 4B that sort of crap? (Woo for noobness).

-Tenelaus: Hey bro! Thanks for dropping by and giving me some encouragement!

-bunny: Thanks! This non-digital stuff is a kick in the ass, fun! Good way to describe the "envelope" thing. Thank you for the encouragement!

[Infinit]

always glad to help you (as far as I can since your paintings leave me crying into my pillow - alone ;_; )

my personal weapon of choice is a HB and an 6B
the sketching is done with the HB (erasable ) till I like the composition and propotions
then the 6b is used to flesh out the piece (not erasable very well but you can do some cool effects with an eraser )
you can replace the 6B with a 4B it's a matter of personal taste
6B solely are for very quick loose sketches (I use 9B for that too ^^) be sure to use fixativ (the stuff you spray on the pic to make sure the graphit doesn't smear over the pic) you can just use commen hair spray

just play around a bit and you'll find out what you like best
maybe I sounded a bit harsh but I want to be encouraging I'm glad you understood

btw red chalk can be cool to get some colour
I sometimes use it for skin ^^ just that and pencils

[mull77]

Looking good....you've got the perspective right and your blocking in all the right shapes. Why not try some quick full body gestures? 3 min max stuff just to get a feel for bodies in motion..it'll help to add a bit of dynamicsm (is that even a word?) to you final peices.

I nknow i'm getting ahead of myself here but you seem to have the basic shapes down anyway, so why not?

[bumskee]

looks great to me for your first bunch of life drawings. Wouldn't have thought you would be a straight rigid line man though, I thought you would be more of smooth roundish line guy. heh. your proportions great! can't wait to see how you progress through with lines.. heh.

[Fishspawn]

Excellent start. It looks like you have a good understanding of basic proportion. I'd reccomend you study hands, feet, and faces on your own time because those can be hard to get in right when you're trying to draw under a time limit. However, with practice at them, they only take a couple of seconds to note and you can go back and finish them later. I look forward to more.

[purb36]

apathy - YATTO DEKITA NE! and after we only nagged you about a thousand times, too. lookin good man, you seem to be getting a grasp of the fundamentals of life drawing, so keep it up man. and hit that anatomy.

pencil lead grades (hb toka)

keep up the good work man.
ue kara nibanme no ga ichiban yokatta.

[Listing]

These are pretty good. Your line is quite heavy. Strong contours, though fine when learning form, will eventually damage your line quality. I know the whole concept of line can seem sort of nebulous but it's the primary abstraction, and can be masterfully manipulated under that title. Some artists to look to for line: Michelangelo, Durer, Rembrandt, Schiele.

[Meatsworthy]

I really appreciate the comments you make as you go along... because I am a digital ctrl-Z abuser too! I'm gonna learn so much here. More more more!

[silvestri99]

You've got a really good start to your proportion and Lines. Try to consider each part of the body as a mass and how those masses flow together while being anchored by the bones underneath. Try starting with the spine and building your shapes from there. Keep working it's lookinf good!!

[purb36]

"where's ctrl-z?"

more like,
"where's new drawings man?"

just pushin you to get better.

[Infinit]

yeah update you lazy son of a ... well uhm your mother

[Rebeccak]

IA!

Hie thee over to the 50 Torsos Workshop!

Cheers,

-Rebeccak

[Halifax]

Nice lines and form, its nice to see an artist that doesn't chisle away the paper with those irritating slopy lines, good work keep drawing!

Really like your avatar, what is it?

[Idiot Apathy]

Infinit:
hahaha, Thanks dude. I've gotten a bit more comfortable with pencils lately, weapons of choice now are HB and HB! Woo! Actually I found a 4H the other day, kind of like that for lay-ins actually, wierd I know. I have a 4B or two around when I'm at school but I never use them . Been using charcoal lately in the advanced class though, fun. Thanks for your help man.
Infinit #2:
Err, uhm... oops?

Mull77:
Hey bro! Thanks for the kind words and advice. Jez - It's been a month since I posted haha. We've since done some more gesture sort of exercises though the class does seem to focus more on form than anything else. Cheers bro!

Min:
Haha, I don't draw nearly enough to have a style to my lines. Here I am basically consciously trying some things out, using rigid lines to build on curvy. Lately I'm laying in some really rough stuff and diving right into the fun curvy junk. Stupid lines though, this stuff is confusing.

Fishspawn:
Yeah, I really need to start studying hands, feet and faces. It's getting creepy with all these stump limbed faceless curvy creatures... but in class I still feel like focusing on well, just learning to bloody draw and try to understand this line junk. Thanks for the encouragement.

purb36:
Hahaha~! Yup, don't think that those thousand nags weren't the contributing factor to this thread. Shame on me for not updating since uhm... the first post. Thanks a lot for the pencil grading link, helped a ton! nihongo wa hanasemasen, renshu wo zenzen shinai no de baka ni natta.
purb36 #2:
Eep! Haha, ouch. I suck.

Listing:
Nebulous, that's the perfect word for line haha. I don't quite understand what you mean about strong contours, could you elaborate please? Thanks dude, I like your description of line.

Meatsworthy:
Thanks dude! Heheh, we can start a club of ctrl+z'ers. Sorry I haven't updated .

silvestri99:
Mm! Thanks man, good advice - starting with the spine. That's come in handy since you posted, still thinking about masses and achors to bones. Interesting.

RebeccaK:
Oh noes! A personal nudge from the K! I really need to figure out how to do things from ref on the computer - well, actually I hate doing digital from ref, just kind of annoying. I bust out some pencils maybe. Thanks Rebecca. Say, why does it say till Oct.14? I'm not, well let's just say I don't own a calender but isn't that a lil' while ago?

Halifax:
Hehe, we call that chicken scratches over here. Never really understood that, sometimes I get a bit scratchy from multiple passes though. Thanks mate. Avatar? That's a doodle of mine, his name is bobo - let's see if I can dig him up, ok here: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...&postcount=405
He's on that post somewhere.

----

Ok, *cough* I've been bad... bad bad bad. I didn't post for the week or two after this because it was, kind of distracting me. Kept thinking I should be making stuff to show, lost sight of learning. Plus, and probably no coincidence they started looking really crappy.

I've got probably, 100 or so pages just sitting around now - nine and a half hours a week eats up paper haha. However, I've lost access to a scanner ... crap! I've got this crummy camera right now, I'm going to see how viable it is to photograph some stuff tomorrow.



In the mean time, here are two crummy sketches I just did before bed - fingers still dirty even. From ref, I dunno 20 minutes of random scribbling. Just having some fun - messing around. My fingers are dirty. These are probably bigger than life size if you're at 1024x768.


Ignore the .. wierd limbs. I'm tired, and wanted to do the curvy bits.


Woo, scribbles. You know, I'm actually using some wierd drafting pencil I found from times past. I was going into architecture for a brief time. Should be cleaner with tone... ooops.


Wow, these are crummy photos. I should get a tripod or something.

[j a k e]

Rendering woo! I like the second one alot bro. Lovely progress. Everything seems to be workin.

[koppa]

hey dude not bad, i'm probably the opposite to you i started with a pencil and am fairly new to digital. you have a similiar style to me i tend to use straight lines when drawing form, its a more direct technique i find as digital lets you fix your mistakes too easliy so it makes you a bit lax in thinking about form,

id suggest if you have life draing models work with a pencil/charcoal/graphite stick that you can use in different ways ie when you come to a heavy fold of skin or shadow use the edge to make a heavy even distorted line it adds a sense of weight to form, also do the opposite when it comes to light areas ie thin/soft lines.

its one of those things you can often show more with less

i hope that helps chief