New Artists Seeking Help Come Here!

[Infinitum]

I tried doing mine like that yesterday and I ended up with the same problem. I think it is probably better to start at one end and work from there. I'm going to redo mine today.

[Master Krepta]

Round 2: Starting at the darkest end worked SO much better. still not perfect but i am making progress.


Hey Vigostar. If you get a chance could you give us an example of your crumbled paper assinment. I understand what you are looking for but i would like to see exactly what you mean

Thanks

[Infinitum]

Master Krepta - That is much better. I think this is something that will take alot of practice.

I'm going to extend the deadline by a few days on this one. I think it will do everyone good to have time to try this a few times.

[orkun]

im so busy these days.. i will post tomorrow.. sorry!!

[vigostar]

hey, guys.... I will try and do a quick version of that crumbled paper assignment today....

Krepta- very good work. Im glad that you have been trying to give this a go.. I knew it was a hard assignment but, its worth it. Keep on going back to the original darkest box. Press down on the pencil more firmly and cross hatch. only really by cross hatching will you be able to get that super dark value. then once you have built up that value go to the box next to it and do the same thing but, maybe less cross hatching or less pressure.. whatever will get the job done and keep on working your way down. Make sure you fill in that whole box though... don't leave any white spaces in there... cover the box completely. BTW- great work Tiava.

Tiava- keep on building. Ok, try this... Create the 20 square going straight across. VERY, VERY, VERY lightly sketch in what will be your number 2 square throughout the boxes.. making them all the same.... leaving that first box completely white. Then go over the row of boxes again with a slightly, firmer grip all the way to the number 3 box, then shade in the row again starting with the darkest box and working your way down to the lightest number 4 box and so on.. keep on moving in this pattern applying a bit more pressure every time going from the darkest box to the lightest.

Christian- dude just use the ruler man. dont worry about making a naturally straight line.. its really not that important plus your probably trying to make a straight line just by using one stroke.. thats like impossible... try using light shorter strokes.. but just use the ruler... look at how nice Tiava and kreptas look.

I hope that explanation was a bit more helpfull....

[kais]

@ Infinitum: so sorry I haven't posted mine, I had completly forgotten about it anyway, it only penalize me so...
about the cat, it wasnt for anything in particular, just a random sketch

@Vigostar: thank you for all the comments, its very helpful

I will try to do mine tonight, promise

[vigostar]

I did the two assignments.. one better then the other.. i'll post tonight.

[kais]

ok, here is my try at this.
I think it doesn't look right because the pencil I used was too light (pencil H, I dunno if this is the name in english), so my supposed darkest color isnt black I don't have time to redo it so I guess I'll just post this one.



It looks really bad on the darker shades because I had to press hard

[Tiava]

You really should think of buying a B-Pencil (at least in Austria there are the same names for pencils ^^)

It´s worth the price ^^

[jjohanson]

here is my gradation scale any tips would be helpful
the scanner lightened it but the dark used to be darker so...

[vigostar]

Hey, guys.. Sorry I havent been more involved with actually doing these assignments.. I am going to really try and get them done from now on... anyways.. Here are some examples of the assignments I gave out.. the crumbled paper assignment was difficult... It really takes alot of concentration in order to do it properly.. I tried it about 4 times and on the 4th time I told myself to take my time and do something better... Its not perfect not even close in some areas but, the idea was not to get the object exactly how it looks rather then to get all those values and rtealize those values... I wasnt able to set up a light source like I suggested you guys to do... I think i would be alot easier because you wouldnt get so many greys everywhere.. anyways... I hope these examples help... also, th value grid didnt come out perfect either but, it still took me like 3 hours to do... some boxes could be a tad darker but, again you get the idea hopefully.. anyways.. i'll comment more tomorrow...

[Tiava]

I didnt really understand your explanation first, but as I see it now I think I do. Seems to be a really hard thing to do, still I think I want to try it out.

Happy to have you here, you are quite creative in topics

[conductor]

hey everyone.

vigostar-i took your advice and worked at trying to draw wadded up paper.
the result gives new meaning to the saying "can't say i didnt try"
In all honesty i did try.i tryed hard.and it still looks so bad that i almost want
to apologize for it.Well...at least i know i have that much more to learn.hooray?
Also tryed making twenty shading boxes.Also failed miserably at that.
I just cant seem to grasp how to make a pure white box and then,right next
to it,make a box that is 1% more darker than pure white.I really dont know how
you guys do that.also,i never use any kind of smug stick.I know it looks like
I do,but that is just where the lead smugs from my hand sweeping over the
paper to dust off used eraser bits.So I guess its unintentional smugging?
That can not be a good thing

Infinitum-on this piece I also tryed using darker darks and lighter
lights,but it just dosent come out how i want it to.drat.

Infinitum and vigostar-Thanks to both of you guys for helping me in my desperate effort to improve.You rock

[Infinitum]

Orkun - Everyone gets busy at different times so just join in when you can. Don't worry about it.

Kais - Don't worry about forgetting just try to do it as soon as possible. I still like that cat. It looks like it should be for an animation.

It helps to use a range of pencils. Going from maybe a h for the light to a 6b for the dark. Looks quite good apart from those dark lines at the end.

jjohanson - Not bad tones. Just try to shade right up to the edges. It looks neater that way.

Vigostar - Very good. those tones are so smooth. Very neat as well. Is biro better for this sort of thing or dosn't it matter?

Those crumpled paper studies are really good.Particuarily the last one. The only thing I would say is that they would be better if they were all finished. Good work though.

By the way, when are you next going to be on aim? I could do with talking to you about the sketchgroup.

Conductor - Your tones are not bad as a gradient but they are very different to what Vigostar said. Take a look at his work and what the others have been doing to see what you need to do.

Your crumpled paper drawing is better. It does look like crumpled paper. I'm pleased you are trying to do darker darks and lighter lights but I think you need to work on that even more. Try setting up a strong light to one side of it. It will create more contrast.

I'm pleased you apprieciate our efforts. Were just trying to help. Thanks.

Here's my go at the tonal assignment. I struggled to get this done. I've been really busy. I might redo it when I have more time.

[Infinitum]

Topic 6

Ok here's the next topic.

By Vigostar.
"Ok, so heres another drill if anyone wants to take a shot. Take a blank white sheet of paper and crumble it up. Then open it up a bit so that its not a ball but, just looks like a crumbled sheet of paper on your table. It would be great if everyone used a lamp to set up their light and if you have a lamp to do so I want you to set up the light slightly above the sheet of paper but, behind it. The idea is to realize those range in values from the previous drill. Being that you are going to have tons of little creases and folds in this sheet of paper, you will realize how important the different shades are. The key here is to resemble the sheet of paper. Meaning that you have to ultimately create mass out of something that is basically flat.

Here are some helpfull tools to get you started.
1-draw in very lightly the general shape of the crumbled paper.
2-Block on all the major folds. Major fold ONLY
3-Very lightly shade in the darkest areas first while paying close attention to the other parts of your object. After this part is done you start to lay in the other major shades while moving back to the original dark shade that you lightly shaded in originally and bump up that shade one or two in value depending on how light it is. This is the format. Keep on going back and forth from the previous part you shaded to a newer light part of your drawing. If you keep on flip flopping between parts your range in values should work out. Its a tough assignment but, it will be fun. Good luck.

I'm going to leave the deadline more open on this one. It is a difficult one so I think people will need more time on it. Good luck everyone.

[kais]

@Infinitum: thank you
About animation, I don't know really, as I haven't done much of that (except once in flash, but I don't remember anything about it:/)

[vigostar]

conductor- ok not a bad start.... My first sugeestion would be not to crumble to paper that much... just do it enough so that theres something to work with. I tried to do it the first time with a very crumbled piece of paperand it was extremely hard to do... Second I would suggest to is work in sections... for me it helps me to concentrate on a smaller area at a time.. Usually this rule doesnt pertain when creating artwork... You should work evenly over the full body of work but, because this is such a challenge and takes quite a bit of concentration doing it by sections will probably be your best bet. what you have to do is constantly ask yourself certain questions. How are these two seperate shadows communicating.. which one is darker then the other and how much darker or lighter is that from the one next to it.. everything works with relation when doing something like this I believe. theres a certain synergy that is created in order to create the forms you see. This synergy is what you as the artist has to work on or work with. I basically take this advice with any ref. I am using. Im constantly asking myself questions about the relationship in values and how they play within the whole scheme of things. Also, theres always a direction. Try to pay attention to the different directions each fold is taking... if your settting up a single light source the direction of the fold will determine if the shadows your drawing are going in the proper direction. complicated? Its not as bad as it sounds. If you want to grow with your art you have to become a thinker I believe. A person that suggests an idea and also incorporate others that have been visualized. anyways... I'll be waiting for the next topic... I'm going to take a step back from suggestions...

One last thing... I would really like for everyone to give this a try. A sincere and truthfull try. Yes, its hard but, the end result and the reward of learning to render and create realistic lighting is amazing. Take your time. work slowly, patiently, and steady. You'll win the race...

[ivow]

Hey, im posting all entires in one post, sorry if its a little big. This is the first time ive ever done stuff like this so ive just used a HB pencil and tried my best.

First is the shade test, paper and the first assignment with the shadows. The box confused the hell out of me so i moved on quickly, im sorry to say.

Now is the glass bottle. I found this incredibly hard as the only place i had to put it has coloured objects behind it, so i tried to pick out the reflections and the features of the bottle.

Here are some line drawings i tried for one of the tasks. The curvy shape of the mouse was really hard and i decided to move on (again i know its bad, but i have limmited time).

[vigostar]

IVOW- hey, its nice that you gave these a go but, your really not going to ever learn anything is you try to rush through the assignments. your not giving yourself enough time to observe and acknowledge whats going on with your objects. this of course all depends on how serious you are about drawing. If its something thats important, then make the time for it, if its something you like to do but, is not your passion then thats cool.. But, dont sell yourself short because you feel you dont have the time. Especially when its something that your passionate about.

[Tiava]

Well, I did this on Sunday morning, took me about 2 hours or 3. Guess I crumbled it way too much, especially on the left side, where the shadowing grew nearly impossible (well, for me at least). I started to do the lines first, as you suggested, and found out that my line drawing of objects isn´t as accurate as I thought days ago. Well, maybe I´ll go back to easy objects a bit just to get a hunge of it. When starting to shade, I tried to differ the different shades to get kind of flat surfaces that I could fill like the boxes, which was quite hard, because you cannot exactly tell if the shade is exactly the same if you cannot put them together (because that would crumble the paper even more and make things more difficult). I´m sorry that the left side turned out so strange, but the paper was even difficult to look at, to make out the edges of the paper.
Anyway, here it is:

[ivow]

vigostar - I have never done anything like this before, i had no idea of how long i should be spending, and i didnt have time to spend more than a few minutes for each thing anyway.

All my life ive done various art related things, but ive never done things from life or with any level of realism before. When i left school i stopped doing art altogether and since then all ive done is web design, im hoping to go back into education and do art & design, thats why im picking up a pencil and doing some quick sketches, i need to start again somewhere.

Is my stuff really bad? I know youre just telling me to have a little more faith and focus, but i cant help think my stuff is bad and not worth commenting.

[vigostar]

Tiava- THATS FANTASTIC! Really you did a great job! Its not an easy task in any shape or form. This excersize like I explained has to be pretty much done with a piece of paper that is slightly crumbled. Very difficult if you make it into a ball and then open it. You have like thousands of little folds.. Thats why I tried this drill/ assignment 4 times.. I did it until i figured out how to properly go about it and basically thats the kind of things we as artists have to do.

Remember look at the individual folds in relation to the shade next to it. Yes, many shades will look the same but, the variance in shades one can achieve is very high. Pick apart those individual parts or folds and always ask those questions to yourself... also, like I mentioned before. For the purpose of illustrating a work of art.. sometime we have to embelish the truth. So, even though something isnt as dark as it looks make it look a bit darker so that area stands out... Try it again without crumbling the paper as much... great work..

IVOW- hey, its not that your artwork is bad. Its more the fact that alot of people come on these forums and ask a ton of questions and basically waist others people time. Ive always felt that if you dont take pride in your work then why should I spend my valuable time making a detailed response.

But, since you ask... alot of your questions can be aswered by reading some of the other comments I left to others.. I dont tend o respond to everyone. I usually respond to one person and make general comments concerning everyones work. I dont pick favorites, I just choose the one that cathes my eye that days. I would suggest you read some of this post first and try redoing the assignments... Like I mentioned before.. Your not going to learn anything if you dont go through the basics and put in the time and effort. these are the basic drills/ assignements that are at the bottom of the learning stage. Master these first then move on.

I will say something.. The one piece that you didnt like the Mouse drawing I thought was the best out of the bunch. you have the shape down pretty close. The basic shape excersize and the shading excersize need to be done properly again for me to really give you an honest crit.

[black_cat]

Hi to all the learning artists here and those that are helping them! What a great way to come together and learn to draw.

I was wondering if it was too late to join in? I know you're up to topic 6 but I was only alerted to this thread yesterday.

If it's OK I will post as soon as I have caught up.

Thankyou

[Christian223]

Hello, here my try at the last assignement: i used an H pencil wich ill never use again since i have to press hard to get the blacks. I also didnt use the eraser as you can see... it took me also like 4 hours to make those i think. The one from the left is the best i think, came out accurate, the bottom one was quite difficult too because of the weird angle i choose, but i couldnt get it right, i dont know why!... i made it exactly as it looked like and still doesnt look 3d... the proportions are quite good too... also, i couldnt set up a lighting, i used the light from the ceilig of my room and a yellow little 8x8cm paper. Thanks for any help you can give, i really need it!!!!!!

[Tiava]

I think the upper right one is better than the others, for it has some 3D-effect I think.

@Black_Cat: I don´t have any problems with it, just join in (except the others don´t want you to, but I don´t think so )

Thanks Vigostar, I always appreciate your comments, and a "fantastic" is even better ^^

[aeonflame]

Hi,

Bit late joining in here, but here's mine so far. Apologies for the image quality, my scanners broken so I've had to take photos on my very very poor digital camera... whenever I replace the scanner I'll update the images.
Topic 1:
First attempts (ignore the things on the left )

Latest, got a little confused on the cube shadow, any pointers on how to cast the shadows properly?


Topic 2/3:
Topic 2 is on the left, a small brass elephant, Topic 3 is on the right, a transparent glass cube, with a corner cut out.


I'll do some more tomorrow

Crits -
Christian223, the top right crumpled paper is the strongest of the three, I believe this is due to a lot more contrast compared to the other two, the deepest shadows are much darker. The bottom left suffers from being too dark, and on the left seems to lose all depth. Good work

ivow, the crumpled paper is very strong, although I believe it suffers from too many gradients, this creates the image that it's more a cloth like material than something with rigid edges such as paper. The glass bottle is okay, but doesn't so much create the illusion of it being transparent and refractive... though I can't give any pointers on how to make it look that way since I'm not too good at that myself. Give it another go

Cheers!

[Cup of Joe]

Oops! Guess I havn't been very active in this thread lately.

Christian223- The upper left one is great! I think the reason that one is the best is that it has a better range of values. The upper and lower ones are too light or dark. I think that Vigostar was right, and that even if it looked like that, you have to take a bit of artistic liscence and exagerate some tones for the sake of the drawing.

Aeonflame- For cast shadows, check out uRiDiAN's Post over at the Peer Project thread. Beacause of picture quality, it's a little hard too crit the first one, but the second one is good! You nailed the sphere, but the cube has some problems. It might be better if the sides had a bit more of an even tone. For the elephant, it looks like you smudged it a little too much, confusing the form. The only problem I see with the glass cube is the shadow.

And thanks to Vigostar for showing what happens when you take some pride in your work!

Tried the latest one. About two hours. I think some tones were lost in scanning, but I can't teel if it's just that I keep my screen really bright. If it looks washed out, tell me and I'll fix it in photoshop.

[Catalyst_za]

Your rendering of the piece of paper 2 me looks quite good
I do have sum comments though, use them dont use them..U know:

A question I want 2 ask is where was the light source coming from?
The form of the paper makes it a little unclear.

I reccomend that the strength(Tone) of your lines making the outlines of the forms, vary between shadow and surfaces gettin light and secondly; your obj. doesnt have a cast shadow which would ground your obj would also make readin the direction of the light source much easier!

On the other hand..I really like it that your shadin gets lighter as you look down the obj, away from where I pressume the light source to be ; and your obj looks as though it is getting reflected light off the surface it is sitting on.

[Cup of Joe]

D'oh! Thanks Catalyst_za. After reading this, I realized a stupid mistake I made. The paper had two lightsouces instead of one, making the lighting hard to read. I'll draw it again later with more controlled lighting.

[rivka]

hey everyone!!

joining in late but i'll have a go anyway!
this is fantastic
click thumb nails for larger shots


took a while and i almost couldn't see it anymore...i haven't drawn for years!!



i took this in two shots,sorry it doesn't look great here but what a great exercise!!