realism vs modernism

[Ned]

Alrighty! it seems to me that there are alot of modernist sympathizers here at Ca so I figure there could be fuel for a good debate , Now I'm a huge realist fan and quite honestly I don't think that modernists who prance around making half assed paintings and claiming that they're more enlightened than realists deserve the status that they enjoy. Now I started this thread because of a debate in another sketch thread (I didn't want to ruin that great thread) and I strongly believe that modernists are traversties, frauds and charlatans. Oh yeh and I have proof!
all I'm asking for is a show of hands of who agrees..8)

[Ilaekae]

Exactly...what...the...fuck...is...a...modernist?

[Ned]

..what? where the hell have you been for the last 90 years?

[Elwell]

For two thirds of them he's been right here.
Ilaekae knows the answer... the question is, do you?

[Hyver]

study and understand art history (which means starting with the cave paintings from Lascaux all the way up to contemporary art) and ye shall find the answer.
It doesn't mean that you personally have to "like" every single piece of art, but it should help you gain some insight on the matter.

[seba_boi]

Eh... I'm not so much to modernistic paintings either (although Edvard Munch's Scream sure is interesting and memorable)...

But the modernist graphic designs however are tops (gave birth to Late Modern movement artists Saul Bass and Paul Rand)!... Dadaism is cool too...

[Snarfevs]

When did modernism become a) an institution and b) the antithesis of realism? As Elwell said, do you know what you're talking about? Because I sure as hell don't understand. All I've seen is you tearing apart senbdoij because his art- not specifically designed with your arrogant criterion of being a still life with grapes in mind - didn't quite get you off, in one of the most surreal threads I've seen here. There's modernism for you.

Frankly you need to stop being such a bucket of bitch and realise that art is art is art. Why aren't you drawing so that you have a leg to stand on when you dig into someone's work? You can only live vicariously through your favourite genre for so long.

[senbdoij]

you should be doing photography... thats pure realism...
edit: or is it...

anyhow... i think all conflict start from misunderstanding...
so lets settle this... when you say modernism you mean abstraction?
realism figuration?

or was it "half assed painting", what do you mean by that?
if someone puts "works" on an abstraction, what the heck happens?

in art history realism is part of your modernism by the way

art is more and more about the research you know, not the rendered piece

if all your asking for is hands that support u...
havent i already told you that i agree about not giving up on the devellopement
to me, thats a realistic statement...

[Ned]

I never understand why, when I put a point of view forward it creates so much damn anamosity. Is everyone at Ca naturally aggressive?

As Elwell said, do you know what you're talking about?

I'll spell it out for you. Modernism, as in forms of abstraction, primitivism, cubism, expressionism, minimilism etc have been losing popularity since the turn of this century and I'm questioning why it's taken so long for people to realise that modernists (look the word up) are charlatins who have the drawing abiltities of beginner artists and have more or less blindsided the public by leading them to believe that there is some merit in their works which have no technical skill or compositional basis.

[Hyver]

ned - you just proved the fact that you simply don't understand art history. accept that and go back to square one (do not collect $200)

[senbdoij]

Realism is approaching the subject with a straight forward manner without idealizetion...

and modernism is about furniture and art deco...

and over what has this lost its popularity?
probably a mixture of both...

you wouldnt believe what aberation people do these days...
appropriations and instalation are very out of date
just to let you imagine

joking

[Main Loop]

where would you classify someone like:


or
wayne theibaud?

[Snarfevs]

Ned - I do not understand YOU.
I understand modernism well.
I also understand that people know what they like - you cannot trick people into giving modernism critical acclaim, people aren't waking up to deception. Social climates and public tastes change. Modernism isn't being rolled back, it's being superseded. Trailblazers can be accepted or rejected at will by the most bland or recherche elements of society. Modernism is not some aggressive meme that takes over the brains of otherwise rational people and causes them to buy bad art.

You can't assume that your postulated alternate history that brought about modernism (that being charlatans formulating a plot to get people to buy 'bad' art) can be reversed by you telling people that they are wrong because that history doesn't exist. Modernism arose because people realised that they could perhaps start articulating more than verbatim copies of objective reality in their work. Art survives through arousing interest. Not because it is necessarily pretty, not because it is necessarily competent and not because you or anyone else says so.

Now please kindly write off your war on reality and draw. Honestly what do you have to complain about? Did a modernist force you into buying art you didn't want?





Mmmm magritte

[Interceptor]

I never understand why, when I put a point of view forward it creates so much damn anamosity. Is everyone at Ca naturally aggressive?


I'll spell it out for you. Modernism, as in forms of abstraction, primitivism, cubism, expressionism, minimilism etc have been losing popularity since the turn of this century and I'm questioning why it's taken so long for people to realise that modernists (look the word up) are charlatins who have the drawing abiltities of beginner artists and have more or less blindsided the public by leading them to believe that there is some merit in their works which have no technical skill or compositional basis.

Wow, that's a pretty arrogant statement right there. Just because something is not your cup of tea does not mean it is without worth or skill. Some might argue that minimalist paintings and photography and architecture require a great deal of skill, by implying a strong image using less resources.

As an artist, especially one who seems to care so much about traditional arts, I think you should be a bit more open minded to other types of art. You can stick entirely to what has been done in the past, and try to live in the shadows of great classical artists. or, you can try to learn from these new approaches to art, along with the traditional, and try to push your work furhter than these.

In the end, I just don't see the point of complaining about an approach people are using to art. It's not going to change the commercial value of these. And therefore people will continue to be doing them. I say if you want to see a change, you make it happen.

[Delight]

I never understand why, when I put a point of view forward it creates so much damn anamosity. Is everyone at Ca naturally aggressive?


I'll spell it out for you. Modernism, as in forms of abstraction, primitivism, cubism, expressionism, minimilism etc have been losing popularity since the turn of this century and I'm questioning why it's taken so long for people to realise that modernists (look the word up) are charlatins who have the drawing abiltities of beginner artists and have more or less blindsided the public by leading them to believe that there is some merit in their works which have no technical skill or compositional basis.

ahahahahaha, Duchamp is rolling in his grave.
Understand history, sir, and you'll understand the answer. It's not something that's up for debate if you know what you're talking about.


(And we're not the ones who need to look the word up... in fact, you are. And not in a dictionary, go for an art history textbook, read a bit, and get a basis of what you obviously have no comprehension of)

I mean your statement is saying that artists like (to name the particularly famous ones) Chagall, De Chirico, Leger, Mondrian, Picasso and too many others aren't artists with technical skill is... absurd. I mean, while you're condemning art movements, where odes it stop? What about pointillism, surrealism, Impressionism? They're not hardcore 'realism', but that doesn't mean that they don't have merit, and don't require a hell of a lot of work to produce.

[fixx]

nope. picasso had no idea how to paint. whatacrook



neither did mondrian



I may not like the "modern" stuff all the time (although Jasper Johns is one cool cat, as is Pollock and his peers) but they do know their stuff, and they had the guts to experiment when no one else did.
Besides, if the rennaissance artists hadn't tried new "modern" things for their era, we'd all still be painting like so:



although that's a pretty cool painting too.. think ill go paint an icon myself..

[masque]

"modernist sympathizers"?
...

dirty moddies! corrupting the minds of our artistically-inclined youth! there are... 143... maybe more... modernists right here in CA.org! some may even be... admins! I have proof! Are you now, or have you ever been, a subscriber to the Modernist Manifesto?

How, how can we permit these traversties to continue?!
...

yeesh!

[Ilaekae]

My dear Ned (Can I call you Ned? We seemed to have hit it off right up front so well, I figured...well...y'know...)


"...modernists who prance around making half assed paintings..."

I'm still a little foggy on the meaning here, Ned...off the top of my head, I'd be pretty damn impressed by somebody who could do ANYTHING while prancing around. I mean...even if they were "fancy" boys that wear them little pink tennis shoes...(I have to say that because we can't say that "other" word around here anymore).

...and "half assed" has a hyphen...y'know...like a virgin? I really can't comment any further here because all of my paintings are executed by a complete ass...not a half-ass...


"I strongly believe that modernists are traversties, frauds and charlatans. Oh yeh and I have proof!"

Sounds downright suspicious to me, too, and I don't even know what a traversty is! What say you whip this here proof out and we'll look it over while sharin' a beer...I'll buy.


"..what? where the hell have you been for the last 90 years?"

Umm...there should be three of them there little dots in front of "what?", and "where" should have a big "w"--like this--"W"...sorry...I get distracted easily...

Where have I been for the last 90 years...? uummmm...I wasn't really around for the first thirty, but I learned a whole lot about 'em from books and newspapers and stuff...y'know...readin'...edumacation stuff?

The last sixty...well...lets see...I spent the first four or five learning how to spell...and not to poop on the floor...and how to hold a brush and pencil. Then I did a lot of stuff. All kinds of stuff. So much stuff that I stopped cutting my hair around 1973 and stopped shaving around 1984 'cuz I was so busy...which means you're almost as old as my beard. Cool! I guess that's why you ask such intellectually penetrating stuff like you do...


"I never understand why, when I put a point of view forward it creates so much damn anamosity. Is everyone at Ca naturally aggressive?"

Damn, Ned. On behalf of all the clowns here, I really wanna apologize to you for all the yellin'. We just have a bit of trouble hearing you clearly...you're voice bein' muffled and all like that...ain't it awful dark in there where your head is? I mean...we talk loud so you can hear us...

...oh...there's one "a" and two "i"s in animosity...and that should be "CA," not "Ca." Sorry...wandered again...


"I'll spell it out for you. Modernism, as in forms of abstraction, primitivism, cubism, expressionism, minimilism etc have been losing popularity since the turn of this century and I'm questioning why it's taken so long for people to realise that modernists (look the word up) are charlatins who have the drawing abiltities of beginner artists and have more or less blindsided the public by leading them to believe that there is some merit in their works which have no technical skill or compositional basis."

Now see...I thought we were gettin' to a meeting of the brain cells here, but now I'm back where I started from...confused. Modernism is the process of creative innovation while purposely trying to ignore what came before. I'm not sayin' that some folks don't like the newer stuff because...man! Y'gotta admit some of its just damn downright fuckin' freaky, if y'know what I mean, but...

I'm just not sure if I can just be happy with all that traditional stuff from the old days...y'know? I ain't all that bright, but I don't see how all that real-life-lookin' stuff like in them Egyptian tomb paintings and 4th-century Byzantine no-perspective big-eyed portraits and stuff like that is goin' to help me make a living, and don't even get me started on that goofy fuckin' AY-rab and Irish shit! Sorry...got off a bit there again...but I mean...can you see why some of us are confused?

Let me make a suggestion here, Ned (I DO hope you don't mind me callin' you Ned...)...How about you pull your head out of your ass and we sit down like two civil human beans and hash this out...

...beans...hash...must be time for breakfast...gotta go...

[masque]

Ilaekae, "Me 'ats off to the Duke!"

[timpaatkins]

Ned. Welcome to the grown up world.

Edit: Correct spellign: grown-up
(Thanks Puck)

[Ilaekae]

There's a hyphen in "grown-up," Timmypattycakes...

[MarkHarchar]

Where have I been for the last 90 years...?

The last sixty...well...lets see...I spent the first four or five learning how to spell...and not to poop on the floor...

Did I mention I love you? Not in that Brokeback Mountain kinda way, but in the buy you a beer, punch you in the face kinda way.

[Ilaekae]

"Edit: Correct spellign: grown-up
(Thanks Puck)"

We should be good examples for the kid. How's he gonna learn otherwise?

[Delight]

All for starting a church of Ilaekae say aye..

[Red_Rook]

Ilaekae, I must admit, far more eloquent then the audacious "WTF?!!!?!!!" I was going to post.

[Red_Rook]

aye...

[Delight]

Ilaekae, I must admit, far more eloquent then the audacious "WTF?!!!?!!!" I was going to post.

Plus he made the tears of "howthefuckcananyonethinkthat" turn to those of laugher, which is quite commendable.

[fixx]

will there be beer in the church?

[Delight]

will there be beer in the church?

I think it'd be safe to assume a resounding "yes" from all crowds.

[Ilaekae]

Damn right! No beer...I ain't comin'...