University Art Programs

[gray_]

Hey, I have been looking into a variety of schools and right now I am on the edge of deciding between a University and an "art school". The problem here is that I don't really know what I want to do, I only know what I enjoy doing, that being, arting(tm) and writing.

I feel that if I go to and art school I would be missing out on the chance to get other good quality liberal arts classes (humanities, world histories, various language stuff). On the other hand, it seems to me (and this is all my perception) that University art programs (in my case, I am looking at BU's school of visual arts) don't carry the same weight as a degree from an "Art school" nor the same variety.

I was wondering if anyone could offer advice on that sort of stuff, because truthfully, I have no idea which way to go.

Thanks.

[Elwell]

I feel that if I go to and art school I would be missing out on the chance to get other good quality liberal arts classes (humanities, world histories, various language stuff).

Just because a college is an "art school" doesn't mean you can't get a well rounded liberal arts education. Any place granting a BA of BFA is going to require a full academic course load. The humanities classes at the average art school are probably better than the art classes at the average university.

[pmiles]

Art degrees in general carry zero weight, so cross that requirement off your list right now. In the world of art, it's what you can do on a piece of paper that carries the most weight, not what is written on it.

A University is a good place to start school because it exposes you to a much broader spectrum of stimuli than a school focused in just one area. I tend to disagree with the comment about Humanities courses being better at art schools than at a University. In my experience, art schools provide a watered down academic life... this may make academics easier for the less academically endowed, but in the long run, being coddled like that actually robs you of expanding another horizon in your life... knowledge. As cliche as it may sound, knowledge is power. I've been to both a University and an art school... the University was a place of learning, the art school was a place of practice.

Most people don't know what they want out of life, I've seen people come into art after having studied Engineering or Mathematics first. It's not that they weren't successful at their first career choice, it's just not the one that they loved the most. I've also seen some really good artists go into other fields entirely. They preferred to do art for themselves rather than for a client.

If I didn't go to a University, I would have never even been exposed to the field in which I am currently in. There were no schools that specialized in this field back then, now every 3 feet you see a new school offering courses in it. That's what a University offers that a trade school does not... new horizons. Most prestigious art programs are actually at the graduate level... meaning that most come into the program after having earned a degree in liberal arts or something else.

[Elwell]

I tend to disagree with the comment about Humanities courses being better at art schools than at a University.

That's not what I said. What I said was

The humanities classes at the average art school are probably better than the art classes at the average university.

It was an apples to oranges comparison.

[pmiles]

Sorry for the misquote, but I still stand by my statement... art schools don't treat general education courses like real classes. As for Universities not offering good art classes... I beg to differ... most of the instructors who teach at the big name art schools went to a University first. Again, it's not where you go to school but what you do when you get there. Don't choose a school because of the glisten that you see that comes off it's name, choose one that suits your needs and your wallet. Most entry level positions will not pay much more than 20-30K per year and that is including all your benefits and before Uncle Sam takes his share. Remember that before you hastily sign on to a 60-80-120K program. These schools are all about the money... they will gladly accept your money and never tell you that your skills are modest but not good enough to land you a full time permanent job. Their sole existence is to move bodies through the system. There will always be the cream of the crop who pass through their doors and there will always be those who worked their butts off to make it to the top of their class, but with every class there is a large number of students that leave unprepared for a job in their field who will have to continue to work on their own to get up to speed. All schools are like that. All of them. They have x number of seats and they have to fill them. They'd like to fill them with talent, but sometimes that's not possible... but every seat is filled, nonetheless.

[Icelandic Norm]

The one major advantage of going to an art school as opposed to a university is that you would be in a much more arts oriented environment. You'd be there with other people who share your same desires to be an artist, essentially an artists colony. And within that group some of your peers will be immensely talented and some won't, but you could learn from them all.

The one major difference I also see is that university professors also have people who are less inclined to be working professionals whereas art schools tend to have people working in their field and only teach part time.

If you know what you are going into, why not go into it full tilt and be around other people who are as serious about their careers as you? The art schools already know what field they're gearing their students to go into.

[goldenavatar]

Nothing wrong with majoring in something of real academic interest to you and minoring in art to fill that latent interest in ya. Lots of folks do it, some even luck out and find themselves able to develop themselves in both respects.

[syrenx]

you know gray, my situation is sort of the same as yours. but i think i've decided that i'lll go to the university to complete my degree there, and then go to some in depth art school to further "enhance" my skills, etc.

[Designcrowd]

Sorry guys but my views will not particularly be appreciated:

I have known a lot of graduates from different uni's and art schools and they nearly all end up with the same ole boring ideas. I could almost place them all in one room for a brainstorm and absolutely dictate the exact ideas that they will come up with.

I'm sorry but until the people that are teaching you guys get themselves away from main stream this situation will continue. I see far more rounded,talented and inventive students that have been self taught or thrown into a job from a younger age. I beg to differ that you require a degree to be a good artist. I know fantastic talents at 16 years old that would be ruined by going to art college.
In this day and age of the internet you are going to fight tooth and nail for every little picking that comes up and most of the time a degree means nothing.

My advice - save the time, save the money, pick a precise avenue that you want to specialize in then go for it yourself with hands on learning.

I do know this though - if you compare these two scenario's, which will be the successful one - what do you think?

(1) Go to uni or art school for an art degree
(2) Dont go to uni or art school and learn 3D studio for 4 years

A bit radical this but I base all my views on my own observations so please dont get upset its just one persons views.

I have lived in USA, UK, Spain, Holland & France and do not see any difference's

Regards
JohnT

[pmiles]

I think everyone is in agreement that a degree is not going to land you a job.

As for learning on your own, everyone does it whether they are in school or not... 90% of what you learn is never in a book, you have to discover it on your own. What going to school offers you is the opportunity to interact with others, to get exposed to different ideas, and to see things in a new way... not to mention, the opportunity to make contacts.

Sometimes finding a job has nothing to do with talent, but rather your ability to make contacts. If you don't know the right people, your reel will never get to the right people... just one of a hundred sitting on a stack that they may or may not ever even get viewed. The harsh reality is, your friend Bob knows Joe who wants to be an animator and a job just opened up at Bob's place of employment. Bob put's Joe's reel right under the Art Director's nose and says, this guy is as good as me and is a great team player. Bam, just like that, a job that was never even posted is filled. Was Joe the best possible candidate for the job? Who knows, the key to remember is that filling a job takes time... time that they don't have to spend... and sometimes merely knowing someone on the inside is your big ticket to that job.

So the moral to this story is... don't discount the value of making contacts in school... you'd be surprised at how many jobs are filled that way. And don't be fooled into thinking that animators are the only people you need to have as friends... one friend of mine majored in Psychology and is now a lighter at Rhythm & Hues, another one was an Architecture major and works at Weta Digital as a lead visual effects supervisor, and yet another was an Engineering major who is now at Digital Domain as a digital sets designer... all three went to the same school, majored in 3 different areas and ultimately ended up in the same field... the one commonality is that I happened to go to the same school as them... people you would not have ever imagined working where they are now. Everyone is a potential contact... everyone.

[ScatteredLogical]

I have known a lot of graduates from different uni's and art schools and they nearly all end up with the same ole boring ideas. I could almost place them all in one room for a brainstorm and absolutely dictate the exact ideas that they will come up with.

My instructor today put it well; she said some students don't really have the spark, or the imagination, or motivation to arrive at any real great ideas. They satisfy what is asked of them, and plunk it down. Should they arrive at -any- creativity, it is usually one layer deep leaving even the "breakout" ideas of the group very similar. Then there are the people who are really brilliant. They are either particularly inventive or just come up with something very smart or that genuinely uses their creative powers. But, since they never got any structure (or because of their personality), their execution is crap and without planning or whittling the ideas down into some focus they get either a partial or half-arsed version of the once-great idea. She said she prizes the opportunity to deal with people who innovate but also have the intelligence to back it up - brainstorm, prelim, etc...and keep staying on task, re-evaluating...they are few and far inbetween.

I'm sorry but until the people that are teaching you guys get themselves away from main stream this situation will continue.

Teachers are either responsible for foundations, which are straightforward in terms of understanding, or deal with a specific topic; if you are in a major-related class isn't it more up to you to get off your butt and sit and think of something grand and do it? We are arguably the most powerful creative beings in the universe and some would say two-thirds of us are destined for "Wow, work was long today. TV time" existences. The burden is on the people who made the choices to be there to sit and produce, and the reward is the enjoyment, the unbridled satisfaction of genuine art.

I see far more rounded,talented and inventive students that have been self taught [...] My advice - save the time, save the money, pick a precise avenue that you want to specialize in then go for it yourself with hands on learning.

I'm leaning that way know. For the same price as one of the three years required of a private school transfer, I can get both of the two years I'd take at a ...less-private school =) that still deals with the same topic, a lot of the same resources (albeit in smaller numbers)...plus with the time and money saved it opens me up to work on my independent projects, take up an assistant animator position I'm being considered for, take part in an online school like Animation Mentor, and have an effective relationship with the offered mentor I have outside of AM. So that's less money, more time, more direct connections, possibly more employment opportunities, and work experience under my belt before I even graduate. The difference between that whole shebang and one year at the private school is three thousand bucks. Adding in the other two years it's 36k vs 100k...one just seems more like me, and makes more good sense...Plus I've been teaching myself for the past year and a half...

If you compare these two scenario's, which will be the successful one?
(1) Go to uni or art school for an art degree
(2) Dont go to uni or art school and learn 3D studio for 4 years

Most art industry work seems to rely additionally on having people already in who can vouch for the authenticity of your talent, rather than just the talent alone. And while I understand your meaning at least the school could provide the rounded education in place of the rounded person. Like with animation I think someone who learned about the principles alongside their other training would have a stronger chance than someone who was -strictly- software knowledge for four years, unless he arrived at the appealing qualities of the principles all on his own and reinvented the wheel without knowing about it. There's a kid in a class of mine right now who can produce a minute of Lightwave movie in under an hour, with sets, props, etc...and it doesn't look awful, but it's so crude it almost hurts....I'd rather be the one who takes twice the time to do it right.

[ScatteredLogical]

As for learning on your own, everyone does it whether they are in school or not...

Not any place I've ever been. Most people even in the far-in non-req very-specific art courses are there to clock in and clock out and receive their grade. There's no impetus for them, so they robotically go through and pump out Same Old.

Sometimes finding a job has nothing to do with talent, but rather your ability to make contacts. If you don't know the right people, your reel will never get to the right people... just one of a hundred sitting on a stack that they may or may not ever even get viewed.

A relative of mine had searched in her county for two years for a marketing job. Nothing; not a bite. It either got filled really quickly or she was overqualified, but in reality there weren't a ton of marketing positions locally. Well one opened up at a local college campus right as she was moving out of state, and people were falling all over themselves to get noticed for the hiring folk at the school. It was a fight to the death and was in stalemate for weeks. Her husband noticed her struggle and made a comment at work about it, and it turned out the guy sitting across from him was the husband to the hiring lady at the school. Now that she had a "fave" to play with (and to be fair, knew my relative had great credentials) it was easier than opening a fridge to be offered the job.

Bam, just like that, a job that was never even posted is filled.

I think with the government and unions there's a stronger chance they post it to look like they're playing fair and then just forget about that listing. A communications company near my house does that. They get everyone from within (or from who 'within' people know) and more often than not hire those folks at a date that precedes when the job listing is posted! lol

"Everyone is a potential contact." If people operated on that, I think the Golden Rule would get its wish lol. Good people would stay good and people motivated toward their own goals and nothing more would have to play nice.

[johnfields]

I have a BFA in theater technology from NKU ( Northern Kentucky University) I was an effects designer/tech for about a year and decided to hell with it all and joined the Navy. TEN years later I am out of the Navy and have started to re-teach myself these skills . When I was a senior in college I could thumbnail designs at incredible speeds. I had fantastic professors that forced me to question everything , My degree track had a portfolio review that was intense. Any one who does not think this is an art degree try rendering set designs , painters elevations , lighting designs , costume designs, designing and buiding maquettes, then having the director make "artistic" decisions that require last min. re-designs.
Although my focus was design for performing arts I took drafting , rendering, painting classes. We were in the same bldg as the art and music depts. A small college like NKU can produce incredible talent -Bill Tucci went here!
My point in all this rambling is this - I have an excellent base of knowledge in the arts but I need the new digital skill sets p-shop , painter . How can I get these I live in Central Illinois ( know by locals as the Wasteland or The cursed Earth).???