Pre-painting sketches...need help with composition

[JEZZARTS]

This sketch took about two hours and was done without reference so there's bound to be ugly bits! If i'm going to colour this, I need to iron out the problems now...trouble is, composition and proportions arnt my strongest areas. Any helpfull crits would be appreciated. Cheers

[JEZZARTS]

Take two - here's a different spin on things... I think it's improving. I tend to clean up a fair bit when painting but if anyone can see anything that looks wrong or has any suggestions, feel free to help...pick it apart please!!

.....Anyone?...

[JEZZARTS]

or not....

[legacy]

i think its just me but everything seems to be like just slighty sided to the left. . .but liek i said: its prolly just me.

can't wait to see this finished up.

[Fantomas]

The only thing i can see is the fat guys left hand seems a little strange. other than that it looks good

[SirRon]

I really like the amount of detail you have on the chair, and I like this one better than your first one.

You may want to recheck the anatomy of the womens upperarm and forearms. The forearm of the girl on the right looks rather thin. I also notice you're trying to draw the least amount of hands as possible. One way I check for proportions is trying to imagine the person standing straight up and seeing if all the proportions land in place. Is the elbow just below the ribcage? Do they have the correct amount of heads high? etc.

Have the girl on the left rest her right arm on that pillow, instead of hiding underneath the pillow. Look in the mirror and/or take pictures of your own hands in the position you want.

Composition wise, there is something that bugs me about the chair and the fat guy's head. See that little line directly on the top of the guy's head? It's really short and his head is really close to the top of the chair. That makes a tension point. Unless you're trying to convey a tense feeling, you might want to fix that too. I suggest making that chair much higher. Not only for the tension reason, but it would suggest that the man's emphasis on having bigger and grander things when he himself is small. But I don't know what you have in mind for the guy. Is he the stereotypical fat king with lots of riches but low on moral character?

I'm looking forward to seeing it painted... digital or traditional?

edit: I forgot to mention...I can see that the guy's right sleeves are resting on the armrest, but it doesn't happen on the man's left sleeves. It kinda looks like there's no arm rest for the sleeve to rest on.

[Elwell]

You're going to have to figure out where your eye-level is. Right now you've drawn the lamp, bowl, vase, etc. (everything where you would have to deal with elipses...hmmm ) straight on with no perspective. You can even get away with this in a stylized piece, but then you break the consistancy by having us look down on the girls and the platform they're on. I say bite the bullet, set your eye level at about his knees (it will make him look imposing) and figure out the perspective.

[JEZZARTS]

Hey thanks guys for taking the time to comment

legacy - I tryied to aviod being too Asymmetrical but as far as weight goes I will add a few extra pots etc to the right and see if that balances things up.. cheers


Fantomas - thanks, your right it does look wierd...I'm a bit lazy with my sketches but do clean things like that up when painting. I should do cleaner sketches but its always late and I cant wait to start painting!

SirRon - you got me I am soooo lazy...I am ashamed. I will indeed fix all those problems you mentioned...and stop hiding hands. I get a serriously sore little finger from using my wacom so try to sketch as quickely as pos. When I started sketching, I had no idea what I was going to end up with so I guess the characters take form as I go along. Your interpretation is good enough for me! Ill go with it. I did however try this time to tell more of a story using expressions rather than a static cheesy pose. I'm painting this in painter with
my tablet - digital airbrush.

Elwell - Thanks mate - I totally missed that. I hadnt even thought about perspectives....wooops. Will take your advice for sure.

Coool now I can get painting! after I fix all these bits of course - thanks everyone for there help.

[kmscottmoore]

Jezz,

This is going to be a long reply, so get ready . . .
(sorry for the long delay, I meant to post sooner, but I got sidetracked)

OK, first thing is the rule of thirds. Divide your image into three equal sections horizontally and vertically. You want your main point of interest to be near one of the intersections of the dividing lines. BUT, don't put the area of interest in the exact center. (To avoid the bull's eye effect.)

[kmscottmoore]

Point two has to do with eye movement. Where does your eye enter the picture? What do you look at first? Look for the general shapes in the drawing, and pay attention to where they point. Also notice that, as a viewer, you tend to follow the eyes of the characters in a picture, and follow their gaze. In this case, all of the movement leads you out of the picture. A good composition should lead your eyes around the picture and back into it.

[kmscottmoore]

Here I flipped the whole picture, to try to get the women to lead you back into the scene.

[kmscottmoore]

In #4, I (very roughly) flipped the head of the woman on the left, so that she is looking back at the main character. I also stretched the whole thing vertically to raise the eye level of the King, and to create some closed shapes at the top of the picture.

[kmscottmoore]

Here's the whole thing, minus my scribbles.

[kmscottmoore]

I think that your original drawing (second version) had some very nice qualities. You have a good mix of thick/thin lines, which adds visual interest. But, I would try not to give everything such a harsh outline. The lines should lead into the forms. Use heavier lines where shadows would be and lighter ones for the highlight side.

The way you portray the details is very nice; just enough to get the point without being overly fussy. I would recommend that you refine some of the anatomy, especially the hands and feet.

I hope this is helpful to you. Please post the finished picture.

-Scott

[JEZZARTS]

kmscottmoore - thanks for the time you put in to helping me with this. It's a shame that I've only just looked at your reply and have almost finished the painting. I'm going to spend alot more time with my sketches before painting anything in future. I think I'll keep my compostitions simpler as well as using proper composition rules. Anyway, I'll post the painting as soon as it's done.

Cheers

[monkeygrrrl]

I would say that most everything leads my eye up and not much leads it back down to stay in the frame. Maybe have the girl on the left looking vaguely up at him rather than all three looking at the viewer. Maybe have less smoke coming form the hoopak and a chain coming down from the light. Oh, and more fruit, maybe a large bunch of grapes overspilling from the container, if they were bright they would pull you eyes back down to look at the first female again and lead you back into the drawing. That is what I would do. Hope it turns out well!

[Elwell]

I'm going to spend alot more time with my sketches before painting anything in future.

This is a very important lesson to learn, not just for you but for the majority of folks here trying to do "finished" work.

Do a sketch. Then do another. And another.
Repeat as necessary.

Make sure the composition and underlying concept are strong before you go to finish.

Don't settle for your first idea. Sometimes it will be the best solution, but there's no way to tell for sure untill you've tried other options.

Have a clear idea of what your intentions are with the piece, then make sure every element (composition, technique, color, details, etc) contributes towards communicating that to the veiwer.

In realistic work, make sure you understand your eye level and your light source(s).

Figure out any drawing problems first. If you know there is a perspective or anatomy problem, fix it. Don't put off the inevitable.

REFERENCE REFERENCE REFERENCE!!!

Don't be lazy. Don't be impatient. Don't try to eat your dessert before your veggies. Work put in at the front end pays off in easier, quicker, more successful work at the back end.

BUT... don't become so paralized by process that you never accomplish anything. Play. Have fun. Give yourself permission to screw up, to make stupid/fun/badyesIknowit'sbadsowhat pictures. The only really bad pictures are ones you didn't learn anything from.

[JEZZARTS]

Well I've finished...but as you can see, I did so before reading most of the replies. Great advice everyone..thanks heaps, I have learnt from this and will put more foundation work into my next painting for sure. Next one will be better!! Hope you like anyway, cheers.

I've posted in the finished section as well wilth close ups.