Need mentor for drapery

[Xeon_OND]

Hi all,

I've read videos and books on drapery drawing including the 7 folds etc, but I've serious issues painting them.
Below are some of my work which I did recently. In particular, I'm having the most difficulty with those zig-zag types of folds.

I'll be doing a couple of drapery paintings from photos weekly and need a mentor to tell me what's wrong, what to improve on, what to look out, which area to focus on etc.

In below paintings, I use the photos for reference (didn't try to copy exactly) and use my own main light source.
I also construct the body of the figure out before drawing the drapery on top but erased them out in final drawing.



Thanks!
Xeon

[dcorc]

Looking at the images you've provided, you may have read the 7 folds etc, but, with all respect, you haven't really understood the concepts, as your fold patterns rather miss the point, don't make much sense. You've sort of copied the folds from the reference images, but your paintings do not convey the sense of tension in the fabric. Folds appear because the fabric is subjected to forces, and the folding patterns are its reaction to those forces.

The ridges and folds are aligned along lines of tension, pulled taut between two ends, either two points where the cloth is somewhat anchored down, or where one end is due to the pull of gravity. Generally, there's likely to be some stretch of the cloth along this direction (particularly if it approximates to the diagonal across the warp and weft of the weave of the cloth) and the intervening areas of infolding are under less tension.

Note though, that at right angles to the direction of pull, the fabric will be cinched in, and there comes a point where the fabric is then likely to buckle if the tension varies at right-angles to its direction:


So the ridges are also straight lines, though the may split and fan out in triangular patterns. This will be determined by the forces, and by the thickness and stiffness of the fabric.

See on the pink shirt how the lines radiate from the buttons.

On the girl with the short dress, note how the folding patterns are all associated with the curved side of her contrapposto pose (something else you've missed, incidentally - one side of her body is all curves, the other side is almost a straight line by comparison) - and radiate from shoulder and hip, as that side of the dress is under (almost) horizontal tension but vertically crumpled, whereas the straight side is under vertical tension, but not sufficient to fold (imagine what might happen if a heavy weight was attached to the hem of that side of the dress, though).

Does this make sense? Do you follow? Try and analyse the forces with straight lines - draw arrows on the ref images, see if that helps you understand the folding patterns.

Happy to discuss further.

Dave

[Xeon_OND]

Tks for the explanation Dave! The explanation is a bit hard to understand; could you provide a paint over on one of the reference photos above to illustrate your explanation of "Try and analyse the forces with straight lines - draw arrows on the ref images, see if that helps you understand the folding patterns."

Also, before one even attempt to learn to paint drapery, one should be able to draw it with line alone? Because my biggest problem now is that I don't understand the folds at all, they seem so random and complex.
I always see art students putting drapery on a chair and then making a realistic rendering of it, but I don't see how that can help if one doesn't understand the folds to begin with.

Tks!
Xeon

[dcorc]

Get a square of cloth - for example a cotton or linen handkerchief - grab it at diagonally-opposite corners, and pull apart. See how it reacts? forms a ridge between where your pulling, and buckles and possibly forms secondary ridges on either side, as the other two corners pull together a little.

Try to visualise the folds in a garment as resulting from the same process -folding occurs between points that are under tension.

I've done an arrow analysis on your refs, below, for the main folds - please compare the original refs back and forth with my paintover. It is also helpful to think of these folding patterns as generally being made up of straight lines, perhaps with some buckles in them, rather than as curves. In oil paint, I would block these all in as single straight strokes with a large brush initially.

[dcorc]

Let's identify what the typical anchor points are, as well - they are usually prominences which the clothing hangs from, or is put under tension by - the most usual ones are the junction of neck and shoulders, the tips of the shoulders, underarms, nipples, waist hips, elbows and knees, wrists and ankles - see how the folds generally flow towards/away from these, and to/from buttons and seams:

[dcorc]

Also, before one even attempt to learn to paint drapery, one should be able to draw it with line alone?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of starting from line drawing. I'm a painter, and I tend to think in terms of blocking-in of areas (and getting the shapes of the areas right). I'm also a big believer in doing these sorts of studies in traditional rather than digital media at first - when you've got it in pencil, charcoal, or paint, then take it digital

[Xeon_OND]

Hi Dave! Tks so much! After you mapped out the anchor points (green dots), things start to become clearer as to how these folds originate.

What I'm gonna do now is to try doing it in pencil / pen first and then post again here in a few months time to get your feedback (I'm slow, so I need like 10x more practice than the average person LOL )
I have the Hogarth book and the "Drawing drapery from head to toe" book by Cliff Young.

Tks again!
Xeon

[dcorc]

....post again here in a few months time to get your feedback (I'm slow, so I need like 10x more practice than the average person LOL

Try just doing some very quick drawings to implement the ideas we're discussing here - it really shouldn't take huge amounts of practice - its just about identifying where the "pulls" are on the fabric and drawing the folds as straight lines It doesn't have to be a very worked-up finished painting, quick studies will enable you to get it and see the difference.

Have a try, and post something, we'll then go through it together, I'll try to help further if needed