DC concept art (urgent feedback needed for uni)

[Badgers]

Hey, so for my university project we had to chose a community of practice and make an outcome in that community of practice. For mine I chose character concept art and set myself the brief of redesigning dc comic book characters. For the project, feedback from your chosen community of practice is advised, so any critiques, comments and feedback particularly in the realms of layout, presentation and usefulness to a client would be great. Thanks.

[Badgers]

Critique please?

[Badgers]

I really need a critique for my uni course please.

[Badgers]

I was thinking about making these edits as it add more character and makes them darker and more fitting to the dc universe, any opinions?

[cfhd]

How far into uni are you? What are you studying in uni?

The main problem I can see is that none of them really look like they could be in a comic book. The closest one to any sort of comic book like pose is the Harley Quinn one and even that's a stretch.

Are they just photos of real people with clothing drawn on after or did you draw these from scratch?

I think you need to start from scratch and study pictures is these characters from their respective comic books. Then draw them in a more comic book style wearing different outfits.

[Badgers]

How far into uni are you? What are you studying in uni?

The main problem I can see is that none of them really look like they could be in a comic book. The closest one to any sort of comic book like pose is the Harley Quinn one and even that's a stretch.

Are they just photos of real people with clothing drawn on after or did you draw these from scratch?

I think you need to start from scratch and study pictures is these characters from their respective comic books. Then draw them in a more comic book style wearing different outfits.

They aren't meant for a comic book though, comic book characters are often redesigned for video games and film. Photos of people drawn on top? What are you talking about? No, they are drawn from scratch.
These are my inspiration:

[Slothboy3000]

More variety, I say. Right now they're all scantily clad/ fetish looking. Make Catwoman's suit more practical if she's a thief.

[Avvatar]

It looks like you took photographs of those people who model for Halloween costumes and painted on top of them. I'd pay a lot more attention to anatomy, posing, and structure. All three characters are extremely stiff. Also did you intend for your characters to look like prostitutes? It would help to know exactly what you are trying to accomplish, the original description is pretty vague.

[Badgers]

It looks like you took photographs of those people who model for Halloween costumes and painted on top of them. I'd pay a lot more attention to anatomy, posing, and structure. All three characters are extremely stiff. Also did you intend for your characters to look like prostitutes? It would help to know exactly what you are trying to accomplish, the original description is pretty vague.

I guess I don't understand why people think it is photos, it is painted quite messily (lines need neatening up) and I think resembles my inspiration that I posted above which looks nothing like a photo, I can spot a photo manip and it looks nothing like one to me.

Structure of what? And what is not anatomically correct?

Look like prostitutes? No, catwoman is influenced by Egyptian times, Harley Quinn influenced by her nurse profession and killer frost I wanted to make youthful and hipster like, all being modern and high fashion.

[Badgers]

More variety, I say. Right now they're all scantily clad/ fetish looking. Make Catwoman's suit more practical if she's a thief.

I wasn't going for practical, nor are many interpretations of catwoman (note Nolan's wearing high heels). There are only so many way you can design a catsuit my attempt at that practical side was the first one depicted. Yes she is a jewel thief hence why she has facial piercing (that you can't see because it is low res,) and a wealthy glamour about her, so the second look was more her outside of heists.

[Badgers]

I wasn't going for practical, nor are many interpretations of catwoman (note Nolan's wearing high heels). There are only so many ways you can design a catsuit, my attempt at that practical side was the first one depicted omitting the shoes. Yes, she is a jewel thief hence why she has facial piercing (that you can't see because it is low res,) and a wealthy glamour about her, so the second look was more her outside of heists.

[cfhd]

The pictures really do not read the way you think they do. They look like photos of people you cut out and then messily painted thick black lines around. They simply don't look similar to your inspiration.

You're going to have to take a step back and self evaluate what you have here and be a bit more critical of your own work. Especially if you are in uni for art or something.

I'm willing to bet that even when comic book characters are redesigned for movies or video games that at the concept art phase they still look similar to comic book characters.

I'm sorry for being harsh in this critique. I think that some better poses and less thick black lines would help these a lot.

[Badgers]

The pictures really do not read the way you think they do. They look like photos of people you cut out and then messily painted thick black lines around. They simply don't look similar to your inspiration.

Well then tell me the difference, because to me the painting style looks similar. They still look nothing like photographs though, the painted strokes aren't even blended.

You're going to have to take a step back and self evaluate what you have here and be a bit more critical of your own work. Especially if you are in uni for art or something.

I am critical of my work hence why I am seeking an articulate elaboration that explains what you mean.

I'm willing to bet that even when comic book characters are redesigned for movies or video games that at the concept art phase they still look similar to comic book characters.

It depends on what the client wants. It's really irrelevant given that wasn't the route I chose for them, I've already shown you what I was going for and it is not a comic book style.

[cfhd]

Well then tell me the difference, because to me the painting style looks similar. They still look nothing like photographs though, the painted strokes aren't even blended.

If you look at the reference shot you are trying to stylize your pics to look like there are no thick dark lines bordering the character. All of the different layers of clothing are detailed and separated with values. You can tell what each part of the clothing is and why its there.

Your pics look like photos because the base character models skin is rendered but then you added black outlines around each character and sort of scribbled on g strings and black leg things on a couple of them. The poses look like stock photo poses. I still have a hard time believing you didn't trace real photos or cut out stock photos and then paint clothes on them but if you say you didn't then ok.

[Stoat]

I think maybe they remind people of photos, because it's kind of like you caught them between poses, the way a snapshot might. They don't seem to be standing firmly on their feet and their poses look a little awkward and half-formed. You need to work on the gesture, the base poses more.

Look at your inspiration drawing. See how her two feet are almost dead level to each other, in a line horizontally? Her knees, too. Those legs are firmly taking her weight. Then her hips have a definite tilt to the left, which makes her shoulders tilt definitely to the right. She has a presence and an attitude, before you even get to costume.

[ccsears]

I agree with Stoat--first and foremost, get the gesture of the thing right. I did some quick gestures for you, but for some reason CA.org isn't letting me upload pictures while they're doing their server upgrades.

There are a couple different ways to approach this, but the two basic types of these kinds of illustrations are 1) fashion/costume and 2) character. the point of doing (1) is to show details of the costume, props, weapons, accessories, materials, etc. it's almost always a full-length standing pose with pretty minimal overlapping. if you're going to do (2) then pose can be much more dynamic, but as a rule you should always try to show as much of the costume as possible. (i.e. if you're designing a knight with a shield, don't show him holding the shield in such a way that it covers up all of the armor design.)

since you're doing comic book characters with exaggerated personalities, you should definitely exaggerate some of the poses. there has to be something very feline and sexy about catwoman--arched back, crawling on all fours, curled up into a ball, diving off a building... there are a lot of possibilities with her. for harley quinn there has to be something crazy or playful about the design and the pose. maybe something angular about the ways she tilts her shoulders or elbows or wrists. for the last one, i'm not familiar with the character, but maybe something more along the lines of a fashion pose.

it sounds like really simple advice, i know, but it really is great if you can capture something of the character from the very beginning with the gesture. and doing it from reference or from imagination is very difficult. i could get an assignment where i show tony stark sipping a martini. maybe i've practiced drawing hands and martini glasses too. but what should his other hand be doing. should it hold his iron man helmet. should he fold it under the elbow of the arm holding the martini glass... who knows? (i've actually had to do that, by the way). the main idea is that you should think about it like you're a director or photographer. literally tell the character what you want them to do. arch your back more, tilt your head the other way, etc. command it. don't let them just stand there any old way. if you use reference (i haven't seen yours yet) make sure it's damn good. most human beings slouch and stumble unless they're professional athletes or dancers.

anyway, hopefully ca.org gets its photo uploader working. when it does, lemme know and i'll put some gestures here for you.

[Revidescent]

Female superhero costumes tend to be sexy and impractical, but even by those standards, these are reading more as superhero-inspired burlesque outfits than something they would actually wear. Catwoman's design doesn't say "Egyptian", it says "lingerie". Harley looks like a fetish model. Killer Frost's clothes look like a pop star concert outfit. (I'm thinking Britney Spears specifically here...) All three of them come across as designed more to titllate than anything else, and that's okay if that's your goal. Your responses to other people making similar points make me think it isn't, so by that standard, they're really not working.

What is your goal? You say you're making them "darker", and that it's not necessarily for a comic book. You need a more coherent aim. I've seen people redesign superheroes for different time periods and settings, for example. Or if you're imagining a movie or a video game, then specify which, and think out the universe a little more. What you're missing is the why. When you design a character's clothing, think about why they, as a person, would choose to wear what they did. What are they going to be doing? Movie Catwoman's stiletto heels were kind of silly, but they did at least semi-justify them, revealing them as knives. Can you think of any reason for a cat burglar to wear any of the things she's wearing, EXCEPT to look sexy? Once you set out your goal a little more clearly, and think through the characters' situations and goals within the setting you're working with, you can start to come up with clothing that makes sense for their goals.

If you're not familiar with it, check out Project Rooftop for a whole bunch of fan-redesign inspiration.

[Badgers]

If you look at the reference shot you are trying to stylize your pics to look like there are no thick dark lines bordering the character. All of the different layers of clothing are detailed and separated with values. You can tell what each part of the clothing is and why its there.

Your pics look like photos because the base character models skin is rendered but then you added black outlines around each character and sort of scribbled on g strings and black leg things on a couple of them. The poses look like stock photo poses. I still have a hard time believing you didn't trace real photos or cut out stock photos and then paint clothes on them but if you say you didn't then ok.

I made some changes:

[Badgers]

I agree with Stoat--first and foremost, get the gesture of the thing right. I did some quick gestures for you, but for some reason CA.org isn't letting me upload pictures while they're doing their server upgrades.

There are a couple different ways to approach this, but the two basic types of these kinds of illustrations are 1) fashion/costume and 2) character. the point of doing (1) is to show details of the costume, props, weapons, accessories, materials, etc. it's almost always a full-length standing pose with pretty minimal overlapping. if you're going to do (2) then pose can be much more dynamic, but as a rule you should always try to show as much of the costume as possible. (i.e. if you're designing a knight with a shield, don't show him holding the shield in such a way that it covers up all of the armor design.)

since you're doing comic book characters with exaggerated personalities, you should definitely exaggerate some of the poses. there has to be something very feline and sexy about catwoman--arched back, crawling on all fours, curled up into a ball, diving off a building... there are a lot of possibilities with her. for harley quinn there has to be something crazy or playful about the design and the pose. maybe something angular about the ways she tilts her shoulders or elbows or wrists. for the last one, i'm not familiar with the character, but maybe something more along the lines of a fashion pose.

it sounds like really simple advice, i know, but it really is great if you can capture something of the character from the very beginning with the gesture. and doing it from reference or from imagination is very difficult. i could get an assignment where i show tony stark sipping a martini. maybe i've practiced drawing hands and martini glasses too. but what should his other hand be doing. should it hold his iron man helmet. should he fold it under the elbow of the arm holding the martini glass... who knows? (i've actually had to do that, by the way). the main idea is that you should think about it like you're a director or photographer. literally tell the character what you want them to do. arch your back more, tilt your head the other way, etc. command it. don't let them just stand there any old way. if you use reference (i haven't seen yours yet) make sure it's damn good. most human beings slouch and stumble unless they're professional athletes or dancers.

anyway, hopefully ca.org gets its photo uploader working. when it does, lemme know and i'll put some gestures here for you.

It should work now if you try to upload.

[Badgers]

Changed the hand: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8...71f1a581_b.jpg

[hueonpao]

I'd really suggest scrapping the whole idea of "lingerie as superheroine/villainess outfit", since it's basically the lowest common denominator in character design for either comic books, videogames or movies, and even while theoretically something interesting could come out of it, to be frank these look really unimaginative and disconnected from the source. I think the forums ate the images you posted as inspiration, but I'd suggest taking a look at Kevin Wada's redesign of XMen outfits as high fashion (unless it's what you posted, I don't know, maybe my connection's busted) - all the visual elements that identify the characters are present (I guess, I'm no expert), but the shapes are entirely new - and consider that one of the main points that make the design creative and innovative is that it uses a much broader range of shapes than merely skin-tight bodysuits.

[Badgers]

This is what I'll be handing in, telling me to scrap the idea a day before deadline isn't really useful.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8...71f1a581_b.jpg

[mazetta]

Without the text I would have honestly not been able to tell which characters they were supposed to be. There is nothing suggestive of a clown, jester or harlequin in Harley Quinn's clothing choice, and I'm pretty sure the character isn't even a nurse(all the comics I read she was a psychiatrist). Likewise Killer Frost doesn't look like she has anything to do with snow, frost or winter. Catwoman is identifiable as someone who is cat themed but the 'classy cat burglar' aspect is lost.

[Badgers]

Hence why the names are there =]
She has an icicle in her hand and blue lips and hair.

[Kya Hill]

If you have to have the names there so people can know who the character is, your design isn't working. I should be able to look at these redesigns and know who they're supposed to be. I agree with the other posters about the choices you made with the clothes and I also thought they were photos with the clothes painted on top.

[Badgers]

How do you know my intent was to having them be recognizable? It wasn't. Does my latest one, you know the one I need critiquing, still look like a photo?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8...71f1a581_b.jpg

[iambanana]

Why did you even post here if you aren't going to accept any crits? Stop being so defensive when people are trying to help you.
"This is what I'll be handing in, telling me to scrap the idea a day before deadline isn't really useful.", you had days and days to take the crits on board and do something about it, and yet you didn't. That excuse just won't fly.

[Avvatar]

Your rendering of the face and body are completely different, so yes I think parts of your drawing are based off photographs. And agreed with iambanana, you seem very unwilling to take critiques that are meant to help you, so why bother posting at all? Everyone has basically said the exact same thing, so either we are all wrong or you are.

[Kya Hill]

redesigning dc comic book characters.

I wasn't very clear in my last post, if you're redesigning established characters and need to have the name there, your design isn't working. Yes the latest pic still has problems and Banana is right, you're not taking the crits into consideration.

[ccsears]

these might look like random scribbles, but they're not. you can see how arching catwoman's back, or cocking harley quinn's shoulder and head in opposite directions, or changing the ice-lady's hand position changes the character and makes the same ideas you had more effective. even if you put the exact same costumes on them, they will read as personalities much better.

it's a cliche to say it on here, but this stage is where you spend most of your "creative" energy; the rendering/finishing stage is where you use most of your "technical" know-how. you do need to have a good figure drawing vocabulary to work like this, but it's not so hard to do.

even if you only get a good pose 5% of the time, it's easier to stumble upon a good idea if you plan on doing 100 x 1-min gestures when you start something like this. i guarantee you won't make it through all 100 sketches because you'll inevitably stumble upon a couple of ideas that grab your attention and you'll be off and running. sometimes it's hard to get in the right frame of mind to do that, but it's a necessary skill in the industry.

as far as the time limit goes, it's better to turn in something looser and less finished based on a better foundation than something super-rendered on an awkward pose. every artist i know in the industry is willing to make a drastic change to make their picture better. and even if it's not to make the picture better, you will often be working for someone who wants a drastic change just because they want to tell you what to do, even if what they want is ridiculous and stupid.

and the bonus of being a professional is...

they'll frequently ask for that drastic, stupid change at the last minute, while you're recovering from the flu, when you haven't had enough sleep or food to eat, and while you have another deadline...





** this isn't specific to you, just a reminder i'm leaving here in public **

as far as crits go...it's always better to avoid critiquing content with strangers because it can turn subjective very quickly. in this case, whether the female superhero is "a cliche" or "an archetype" or "a pin-up fantasy" or "a symbol of female liberation"... that's all for you to decide. it's important to be honest about what it is, but everything after that should be objective criticism. whether it's emily davison getting trampled by king george's horse or whether it's some big-breasted barbarian chick playing peek-a-boo... it's perfectly legitimate to say--the fold pattern on the costume should be adjusted, the rendering of shiny plastic needs to be tweaked, the camera angle should change more to show more sexiness or tragedy or whatever. in purely objective terms, you make a picture to produce an effect in the viewer. it's always useful to listen to advice on how to be more effective.

there are so many people who make a living at doing "the lowest common denominator" that it doesn't f-ing matter. pretty much everything is up for grabs these days anyway. your ideas will change or mature as you go through life, or maybe they won't, who knows? but you should get better at expressing them either way.

** end philosophical rant **

anyway, all the best... hope this helps.