FaceBook and Twitter? Really?

[Stoat]

I'm not going to piggyback this on one of the CA threads, because it's note solely a CA issue. It's happening all over. I know someone who ran a very popular forum funded by a corporate sponsor. Recently, they shut it down. Like, overnight. Turned out the lights and said everybody is just going to Facebook and Twitter, anyway.

Seriously, the HELL? Twitter is great for following fast news and engaging in light amusing banter. FaceBook is a good way to keep in touch with casual friends. But how on earth do either of these things replace a forum?

How would you run critiques or sketchbooks or "of the week" contests off FB? How would you have a meaningful conversation? I swear, the commentary on those things is like the drool you read under YouTubes. Same for Imgur or Tumblr...or the Cheezburger network, fer chrissakes. It's all "some guy posts something amusing and a bunch of moron one-liners appear underneath." It's way, way down in the shallow end of the information pool.

I *love* forums. I participate in a lot of them. I don't see the overlap. Please tell me this isn't really going to happen.

[Velocity Kendall]

Maybe its cos im 30 and so about 400 years old in internet years but yeah I agree.
Also if i have a tech issue, i know there will be lots of forum posts about it and in there is usually an answer.

[Jason Manley]

neither fb or twitter are good places for that. Even vbull forums are not ideal.

[Candra H]

Yeah, us old farts like somewhere where we can sit back, chill out and take our time looking at art and thinking about it before we get all wordy.

These kids today... They don't know what a real conversation looks like.

[kilian1]

I like forums better as well.

The scary thing about FB and Twit is that they can do stuff with your pics because of the TOS you didn't read has nasty stuff in it.

Under Facebook’s current terms (which can change at anytime), by posting your pictures and videos, you grant Facebook “a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any [IP] content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (“IP License”). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.” Beware of the words “transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license.” This means that Facebook can license your content to others for free without obtaining any other approval from you! You should be aware that once your photos or videos are shared on Facebook, it could be impossible to delete them from Facebook, even if you delete the content or cancel your account (the content still remains on Facebook servers and they can keep backups)! So, although you may be able to withdraw your consent to the use of photos on Facebook, you should also keep in mind that if you share your photos and videos with Facebook applications, those applications may have their own terms and conditions of how they use your creation! You should read the fine print to make sure you are not agreeing to something that you don’t want to have happen.



Twitter’s photo sharing service, Twitpic, just updated their terms of Service on May 10, 2011 (which, of course, can and will be updated at any time, from time to time). By uploading content using Twitpic, you are giving “Twitpic permission to use or distribute your content on Twitpic.com or affiliated sites.” You are also granting “Twitpic a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content in connection with the Service and Twitpic’s (and its successors’ and affiliates’) business, including without limitation for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service (and derivative works thereof) in any media formats and through any media channels.”

http://www.nyccounsel.com/business-b...ok-or-twitter/

Things like that are why I never use FB/Twit. Even though I am just a beginner artist and it doesn't matter. I'll keep my tinfoil hat on.

[Krilce!]

I definitely prefer forum over any other form of internet community. It's structured, easy to navigate and find what you need, good for finding certain artist, article, and loads of other things.

[dierat]

I like twitter because people can quickly link to their work wherever they've posted it (blogs, facebook, whatever) and I can easily scan through the list of updates, checking out the ones that sound interesting. But putting the actual conversation on twitter is tiresome with the character limit. The only way to really post a crit on twitter is to upload your text as an image (as in, part of a paint-over) and link that. But then posting revisions of other people's work to photobucket and such feels much weirder than doing so within a forum.

My main issue with Facebook is that I can't easily update an image if I've made a change to it based on crits. I have to delete the old image (with all the discussion on it) and upload a new one or keep every version up to retain the old comments (which can be confusing because people may be commenting on the old version). As someone mentioned in another thread, Facebook is really only good as a shallow showcase where you upload the finished piece and people can like and re-share it if they want.

I do like some of other art community sites out there (wipnation for example has a pretty interesting system for posting iterations and revisions), but they'll never gain the traction that facebook and twitter have.

[creeptool]

twitter is becoming another myspace if not already..instagram is the new app in town..i wouldn't doubt if people start to post their art on instagram.

[skullsquid]

twitter is becoming another myspace if not already..instagram is the new app in town..i wouldn't doubt if people start to post their art on instagram.

Uhm they do and you're talking without knowledge.

[creeptool]

Uhm they do and you're talking without knowledge.

You're just trying to get me angry.

[Black Spot]

Forums are the only place to get decent crits. Twitter is useless. FB is a bit better.

[Lightship69]

"Stoat" I love you Man!
and my dear Velocity Kendall the age of 30yrs is nothing! noithing at all mate start to worry when you get to 49yrs like me and you still have not grown up at all!

thats what my family say to me anyhow. ha ha haha ... sod em!!

I do have a facebook account and do follow some of yours but forums are the best place for what we do and the best place to get detailed crits and information, also No soft soap or blowing sunshine up anyone but this one is simply the best!

[Mr.Pryminista]

Yeah, forums are still the best. Period.

It simply doesn't make sense to seriously investigate/study/critique/observe something as rich and complex as the world of art via such restricted mediums as Twitter and FB. They're avenues for advertising/networking, but that's about it I'd say.

[-Tragedy-]

I'm a forum fiend. Usually in the art/technology/music (metal) classes.

Manley, You say vBulletin isn't the greatest; just wondering what other decent forum templates are out there? Are these new and emerging plans for CA possibly going to involve a "custom" forum archetype?
I don't mind vBull, because it's everywhere it's damn easy to navigate around...

However, yes; Faceboook and Twitter won't replace forums. Unless they adapt to a system allowing multiple threads within tread kind of thing along with a better archiving system, then it could be possible; but barely...

[D0ming0]

I have a mate who is involved in the twittering, etc for a serious international news magazine. Last time I was in London I bought him beer and he explained twitter to me. Three pints in, I interrupted and said, "it still sounds REALLY superficial and a total f**king time sink." He paused for a moment, shrugged and said, "yep.....your round." ***

Facebook just scares me, a lot. I don't post anything, ever, although I do have an account. I have no idea who the hell is likely to see what. And you know, most of the stuff I see is about what people are having for dinner. how GREAT their lives are, unfortunate ear syringing complications and the hilarious antics got up to while drunk. And I'm scared to unfriend anyone in case they go into a suicidal tailspin. (I'm very popular)

Please don't change the forum structure too much. Just keep improving how good art and good efforts bubble to the surface.

***disclaimer, some facts may have been altered for dramatic effect. Magazine name not shown to protect the sponging drunk :-)

[DefiledVisions]

Facebook doesn't do it for me either. It's too distracting. I'd much rather spend my time on a forum that purely breathes art, like here, than doing the art-thing on facebook or twitter or tumblr. To me, forums are like a campfire. You gather and share stories and have a laugh. The rest is more like a catwalk. Quickly in, quickly out, oh and, watch your step.

[sone_one]

im just 33 by now but i have to admit that all this fancy new crap is too fast for me... or should i say too effort intensive?... here i click on a title and have all relevant information contained within.

i seriously dont even attempted to adapt. twitter drives me mad with those posts all over the place. i dont like having to read the date to have it making sense... and fb.. well haha... theres soooooo much useless crap on there i dont even bother to log in. because i dont give a flying fuck, about someone having had a shower 2 days back, or sharing what a nice day s/he had in whereever and whatever.

to me all this new media hype is causing an inflation of information... and in at least 99.9% its neither information im searching for nor information im remotely interested in.

"funny" thing though is, if you ask them (all those hipster, young, new media aficionados) to do some proper research... they wouldnt know how to use a searchengine...

[Maledict]

I have no idea either. Twitter is absolutely useless for this kind of stuff, and Facebook is....Facebook.

The forum format is way, way, WAY better.

[CLANLESS]

Facebook only offers a tiny strip of space clogged with all sorts of things. There's no method of navigation through the junk. I only use facebook to skim through artwork and the artists I may not have known, and to talk with old friends. Facebook has its niche but it will never replace the convenience of a forum.
Forums have categories, ways to navigate, and search engines.

Twitter is a clusterfuck as well. It's impossible to have a linear, straight forward conversation with a large group of people. It's also hard to find artists worth following unless you already know them.

[ikken]

Seriously, the HELL? Twitter is great for following fast news and engaging in light amusing banter. FaceBook is a good way to keep in touch with casual friends. But how on earth do either of these things replace a forum?

idk, livejournal could be a pretty dope forum replacement, but their current management is ruining a very conversation oriented and image posting friendly service.
their community system could also be perfect for CHOW/EOW type of stuff (here's an example of a Russian drawing jam - a weekly competition with a pre-defined subject;
LJ has a built in voting system, its own imagehosting, and, sadly, misguided direction and lots of spam and user interaction issues.)
same with comment threads - that were later picked up by reddit and a very weak copy is added in wordpress/blogspot comment sections.
they're much better than forums for conversation between several people, once you get used to it.

twitter and instagram are a lot of fun on their own, and FB/FB crowd quite honestly sucks (I want to punch every single idiot wearing chromakey user pictures & ship them to Taiwan in rotten wooden crates, and that's just one example.)

[Randis]

I never got the hang of twitter, its just like a mass sms and communication is mostly one sided.
to keep in touch with friends i like apps like whatsapp, line and skype, those are great and have group functions.
Facebook is great as a profile, easy to update, easily accessible.
Sites like Reddit are great for exposure.

This days there are so many communication tools and platforms, all have strong points but some are better or worse for this sort of purpose.
Most focus on immediate content such as messages, life chats, voice chats and of course all the social aspects.
This is all great of course and fun but it neglects persistent content.
An art community profits mostly from persistent content, content that you can review at a later/any time.
There are hybrids that work to some extend, such as reddit for example but again, they mainly focus on recent content and comments are usually more focus on 'rating'
rather that useful criticism.
In all those platforms, popular content gets a high exposure but if you want to have educational value you simply need search tools and means to store content that everyone
can look up at any given time.

[JohnPrince]

I feel the problem with Twitter, and FB is that they are structured towards accessing information quickly, which requires compromise on content.
When you take something that requires consideration; in this instance art, then the platform fails as a communication platform. The benefit of a forum is that you are able to organise content, and approach viewing in a much more relaxed manner.

[Januz]

Usenet didn't die when forums started to take over internet discussions so I wouldn't expect forums to disappear completely now. I guess the benefit of FB over forums for some people is that they can get everything in one place and tied to their profile, whereas in forums you have to register in several places and keep up with them.
Also, the most important part: No hosting or tech costs to keep a FB group/page.

Twitter for art sounds impossible. In fact, twitter for anything other than self-promotions sounds impossible.
I'm not a total fan of vBull either, I like Vainilla's layout way better (http://vanillaforums.org/discussions). Much easier to navigate.

[megaten]

Yeah I'm a big fan of the Forum format. I can't get the hang of these systems where information isn't presented linearly.