The Royalty Problem - News: Brad got paid from TAD

[sone_one]

Over this report,
I would prefer to see Jason, Brad, TAD representatives (+ some other artists involved) giving a 30-40 minutes of their time to do a livestream/skype video where they would calmly and thoroughly explain the following; what happened, why it happened, how young artists can avoid getting in the same situation.
This, and not a legal report, in my opinion would explain things much better, especially to younger audience.

fantastic idea man! im all for that.

[Main Loop]

Over this report,
I would prefer to see Jason, Brad, TAD representatives (+ some other artists involved) giving a 30-40 minutes of their time to do a livestream/skype video where they would calmly and thoroughly explain the following; what happened, why it happened, how young artists can avoid getting in the same situation.
This, and not a legal report, in my opinion would explain things much better, especially to younger audience.

Cheers,
Fallen.

I love that idea

[Main Loop]

i just want to know what did i do to deserve this big red idiot thing..there where people with way more idiot post then me..i fill this was a kangaroo court judgment.

Maybe it's all the dumb shit you said a few pages ago? You've yet to show any remorse about it. You just continue to cry about a pretty small consequence. There could be a lot worse done to you besides a relatively embarrassing signature.

[Main Loop]

Jason did change the thread title, for people being curious about who changed it.
I hope he won't be mad that I changed it to something different again, but this new title is the best choice for everyone I think. It doesn't hide what happened but it also doesn't hide what has been reached so far.

Beside of that I can also tell you guys that non of the posts have been editet or deleted.
I looked through everything and beside of the title nothing has been changed - so there is nothing to worry about.

I think it's fair.

[skullsquid]

Over this report,
I would prefer to see Jason, Brad, TAD representatives (+ some other artists involved) giving a 30-40 minutes of their time to do a livestream/skype video where they would calmly and thoroughly explain the following; what happened, why it happened, how young artists can avoid getting in the same situation.
This, and not a legal report, in my opinion would explain things much better, especially to younger audience.

Cheers,
Fallen.

I'll just echo the sentiment, this is probably the best solution.

[Raoul Duke]

Can you stop baiting? It's a little unnecessary.

Then the motherfucker shouldn't act like he's got dirt on members and is going to expose them (for tutoring). It's fucking sleazy. Blackmail and threats should not be tolerated in this community. I don't want this place to become a snake pit.

Edit: I also agree with Fallen Angels idea. I'm sure there's a civilized way to deal with this without lawyering up.

[Main Loop]

I would agree with that to some extent...but actually I think Nemome's title is a solid compromise as it maintains the question but also reflects the current situation - that Brad was paid. Just two cents man.

BTW - nice work, plus I appreciate a few of you guys keeping pretty level heads, even when raising challenging issues. Wish you guys hung out here more.

I think you came in right after she changed it back to what it was before, with the edit. Before, it just said "Brad was paid by TAD today." Completely overlooking the issue.
Thanks man! I checked out some of your plein air. I am guessing you are somewhere up near Redding?
This place isn't exactly a great haven for level heads, as the last few pages shows...

[sone_one]

Jason did change the thread title, for people being curious about who changed it.

thats exactly what ive been talking about... i dont see him as a mastermind behind some sort of plot... but theres so many of those actions in the past... im seriously tired of it. i give him the benefit of doubt until all facts are on the table, due to me believing in a general standard of mutual respect. but all these little actions make all this ("not from now on") so hard to believe in.
once you know people are sensitive to any kind of editing, why the hell would you edit the title some hundreds of people go by, just to put up a sign theres something happening? seriously... if i went to sleep when theres been 11 pages and when i wake up there are 18 pages... i already know theres something happening.

what it actually did, is boosting suspicions and speculations... some of these actions are just odd. im just glad this aint got censored... which after all we had to face in that direction, seriously would have crossed the finishing line.

[skullsquid]

Then the motherfucker shouldn't act like he's got dirt on members and is going to expose them (for tutoring). It's fucking sleazy. Blackmail and threats should not be tolerated in this community. I don't want this place to become a snake pit.

So you're going to stoop to his level by namecalling and baiting him/her?

[Main Loop]

Then the motherfucker shouldn't act like he's got dirt on members and is going to expose them (for tutoring). It's fucking sleazy. Blackmail and threats should not be tolerated in this community. I don't want this place to become a snake pit.

The guy's an obvious troll, and the reason there are 3 pages of nonsense between anything of any relevance. Responding to him in any way just makes it worse.

[JFierce]

Yep a video conference explaining everything would be nice but would they all even do that. I doubt it and not because "Oh your guilty if you don't want to do this!". Jasons trying to clear his name yes. But frankly the only thing I need to see to get rid of a few of my final suspicions is simply a document or some proof that he filed whatever is to the financial department once Brad emailed him like he said he did. The context of the email who got mad, upset etc isn't as big of a concern to me. I don't know these two and their relations it's described as rocky at best. People have bad days etc.

But if Jason did send in this report or some notification, especially if it's several times. Then what would he have to answer for? He's said he doesn't deal with TAD finance. I could go into why I think this is but it at least sounds like that's what John English said to Brad based on Brads response of TAD not being affiliated with CA/Manley. But besides that it's simply if people will believe this or not. Or if there's some kind of document that can show this (don't know what that might be). Either way those with preconceived notions of Manley likely wouldn't believe it either way, as in the earlier thread you had plenty where he was greeted with "Lies!" or "Yeah rights *rolls eyes*". You'll either believe or not I guess. Jason really doesn't have to go through the hassle of filing an audit and paying a lawyer to release info etc. But hey he is. So good on him for doing that.


Brad. I don't really see how he has to 'clear his name'. All he did was try to get money he probably needed. We don't know Brads home life, if he had serious bills to pay. What he did stirred up a hornets nest, but to me he had every right to do it. That and I doubt he wants to go through all this because I doubt he wanted to stir all this up in the first place. He said it wasn't a call to arms at the start, he said he doesn't want TAD to suffer for this. Said nothing about Manley except it's his duty to say CA and Manley weren't affiliated with TAD. Which is probably saying something if their relationship is bad. Then I bet the guy just wants to move forward and put this ugly crap behind him. At least I would.


TAD yep, it would be nice to hear how it happened. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. Because it's going to be negative for them regardless when this entire event has been terrible for them I imagine. John said he was going to clear up any other issues with the tutorials so those that have friends that were in a similar dilemma contact them, then keep posted on their results.

[tobbA]

Soo... Does any of this mean Elwell is coming back?

[Raoul Duke]

So you're going to stoop to his level by namecalling and baiting him/her?

That would be the funnest way to handle it. Aside from an art duel. Which he is clearly too chicken for. But your right it's breaking the civil discourse. I'll stop feeding the troll.

[Waipunga]

Right, well things would appear to be on the road to resolving themselves. It will all come out in the wash one way or the other.

Would have love to have witnessed an art duel!

Time to go make some stuff....... see you all later! Peace to all sisters and brothers in Art.

[Black Spot]

A. I won't address your "... duty... he has to be..." statements, simply because i am not claiming to be an expert in US law, and the allowed/not allowed practices.
However, a report that was commissioned and payed for by one of the involved parties in a dispute, is not a valid technique in this case imo, even if it is common or legally valid.

I deal in international accounting standards as does the US

B. You miss the point here, let us assume that the person who makes the report is indeed unbiased...etc.
The thing that does matter here is what information the person who makes the report has to work with, and as far as Jason's post goes and as far as i understand it, he is the only one who provides the facts for it.
Would it be based on Brad's information too?
Would other artists information/claims get addressed?
Would TAD provide the financial information and the involved correspondence?
Would the conclusions of this report result in any legal complications for the involved parties besides Jason - fines, jail..etc?
How long would it take - a week, month...more...? People would forget about this issue in a matter of few weeks.

emails can be verified quickly by lawyers. Figures can depend on how soon the information requested is released

We do not know a thing about how this would work, who would/would not be represented and etc....
If the above questions would not be addressed in the report it would indeed be biased or even useless.

Which is why if the mob here want representation they should speak up. as I said earlier, auditors are independent - my firm has sacked clients for not giving information required - integrity is everything

[Black Spot]

As to how long things take and if everyone has moved on - that's tough. If it's proved that Jason had no control over the finance, requested payment repeatedly, then the members here should feel it their duty to spread it around very loudly - extremely loudly. You can't bay for blood and slink away if there was none in the first place.

[sone_one]

we did... all parties involved should get together like grownups and settle the dispute... and have a livestream considering user questions. as it has been proposed by fallenangel.

[Arshes Nei]

Soo... Does any of this mean Elwell is coming back?

There's that "never say never" phrase but, all signs point to a no.

As I said I need a break from here and glad the weekend is coming up so I can get that going. But I'm going to be thinking long and hard on some things as well. I just cannot discuss here, but part is for health reasons too.

[sone_one]

As to how long things take and if everyone has moved on - that's tough. If it's proved that Jason had no control over the finance, requested payment repeatedly, then the members here should feel it their duty to spread it around very loudly - extremely loudly. You can't bay for blood and slink away if there was none in the first place.

you neither cant deny responsibility completely if youre in a leading position, and own 50% of any company, if this company does anything wrong. seriously, this is getting redicilous. maybe some think its enough to meet legal standards, but its not.... we aint lawyers. this is a matter of trust, which should be attempted to be restored... no?

[Black Spot]

of course

[Fallenangel]

I deal in international accounting standards as does the US

How is this relevant?

emails can be verified quickly by lawyers. Figures can depend on how soon the information requested is released

You failed to address the questions imo... i never talked about how quickly it can be verified or dealt with, but with the basic questions:
would they request for this information at all...and if so from who?

Moreover, a question: Can they force TAD or others to release correspondence, provide private information?
If yes, so the other parties involved might also file a counter lawsuit, if they don't want to reveal their financial documentation especially if in their opinion there is nothing to investigate here (money was payed - case closed).

Which is why if the mob here want representation they should speak up. as I said earlier, auditors are independent - my firm has sacked clients for not giving information required - integrity is everything

And involve themselves in a legal quarrel with TAD, or other well known names in the industry? It is a decision that many would hesitate to make.


Cheers,
Fallen.

[Jason Manley]

I am not going to tolerate CA.O being dragged through the mud when it had NOTHING to do with Brad Rigney or anyone elses royalty issue that may have occurred. The thread title will stay as it is. That is it. And if Brad Rigney wants to drag CA.O or if anyone else wants to drag CA.O through the mud and commit libel or slander or defamation or business interference then that is their own issue and they will deal with it. No one stole anything. TAD was late to pay. Rigney was paid tens of thousands of dollars for his video over the years and his last payment has been made by John English at TAD. If it was sony or EA or Microsoft (all of whom have been late to pay with me for example, and we had that up there, we would be getting letters from their lawyers. Both CA.O and I could have very easily done that with Brad and did not. I have worked to clear this up and have been all over TAD since last June and prior to be sure it's finance department does its job). I will not allow CA to be run through the mud on this again. I am working on the report and audit to prove that my statements are true and folks are going to have to realize that writing that someone stole something when they did not is called libel. Saying they did is called slander. Both can be defamation. All three are against the law. I will not allow CA.O or myself to be defamed any longer and I will not see anyone acting to make a bigger mess. If you have an issue with that I am sorry. I have simply had enough.


Jason

[Ian Barker]

Current title seems fair enough to me.

[sone_one]

classic response, and exactly the reason so many users owning old accounts are as suspicious with your acting and in consequence your person. shut whatever down if you feel like.

all this has been "no editing, no bans, no censoring... just give me time to have this sorted" yesterday, now you talked to your lawyer and, time has come for the bold statements... libel, slander, defamation. uhm... ok...?

could you please just once admit that you aswell did something wrong? its always the others... back in 200(6?) its been puddnhead for producing a video with gnomon.
in uhm 2008? its been marko for whatever reason.
ive been to the made workshop, and it actually blew me away, how bad the sentiments about you were. and as far as i remember all of them voicing this been massive black guys.
now its TAD. its john english now, whom, if i remember correctly youve introduced as one of the greatest teachers of all time, while you wanted to promote your new company, (which as youve said until this day own 50% of). now he is the one that caused all this.

the common denominator of all this is you, as the only individual thats been part of it all at a certain point in time. yet youre pretending nothing and never has at any time been your fault?

as you can see by the reaction of the people within this thread... do you really think you can keep this bullshit going?

[Ian Barker]

sone_one, we don't know who stole what. The old title was sensationalist.

[Shorinji_Knight]

Sheesh...

I don't know either guys so I don't really care all that much about either of their reputations. On the surface I was initially in doubt of Jason's character and ready to write him off, but I can't help but side with the benefit of the doubt group. So I've waited to see what developed. The only thing that is clear is that nothing is clear in this matter and it is to the point that talking isn't going to fix anything.

So now you have to ask yourselves if I were in his shoes how would I clear my name. Well you can't. There are no winners here and no way to come out on top. You can't unshoot a gun or unkill a reputation. That is why people need to use their brains when posting their opinions here. To you it's a couple of names maybe even an accaintance, but it's their lives. Don't use this for your amusement, that would be worse than any of the allegations being leveled at Jason Manley.

Why do I get the feeling that a little more civility between the initial parties would have saved both of them and a handful of tag-alongs a lot of heartache and needless shame? I really don't think it should be necessary for Jason to perform an audit to prove his innocence, but I believe that he would greatly benefit from having one done REGULARLY... just so he knows and is up to date with the information that could stop this kind of public crucifixion from ever happening again. It sounds like he really just lost track of the day to day operations of his companies and assumed that the people who he thought were delegated the tasks were taking care of everything. As artists who would rather just draw, how many of us would handle things much differently. You put people in charge you trust cause you can't be everywhere at the same time. On top of it all if you trust others to mind to store, be extra careful in how you handle complaints. A little friendliness might make the difference.

But that's just my take with no stake.


Jason: Go back to making the site better.

[sone_one]

to me its beyond the point who stole what... because you know... brad has been compensated... whats all the fuzz about?... not this time.

[Raoul Duke]

the fact remains that Jason was on a roll of breaking his own stigma until "calling me a poopy head is illegal" rant. Just when we were gaining the impression he learned from his mistakes.

Just because Sony and whoever pay late doesn't make it okay.

[Ian Barker]

the fact remains that Jason was on a roll of breaking his own stigma until "calling me a poopy head is illegal" rant. Just when we were gaining the impression he learned from his mistakes.

Just because Sony and whoever pay late doesn't make it okay.

Come on, be fair. He wasn't commenting on insults towards himself as an individual, but on accusations towards CA.org. And while it obviously isn't illegal for people on the internet to make slanderous statements, his point stands that it was slanderous. I really hate how he's handled censorship in the past but this particular item is not a big issue.

And absolutely it is not okay to make late payments. Whether it's the norm or not it's unfortunate he would use that as an excuse.

[Havok Reed]

Why are people adding more fuel to the fire?

Jason has said on numerous posts that he is working on getting this audit. I feel like some of you are continuing this, just because you like making people feel worse about what has happened.

We all are fully aware of how upset everyone is and, I agree with Jason, people are continuing to drag the name of CA through the mud and that is bull shit. CA is a community as a whole, it not a specific unit, it is not a sole entity, it is a body of people. Stop.

So what more is there to say other than to wait for the audit?