The Royalty Problem - News: Brad got paid from TAD

[Jason Manley]

You're missing the point of my question, Jfierce. Whether Brad's tone was forceful or not, the frustration of an artist not getting paid should not be mocked by the man he's reaching out to for help, and seemingly had been for some time. And if Brad was told that it was closed for discussion, that means his claim was being discounted and intentionally ignored. Which would be the opposite of what we've been presented in these responses.

No Brad was not told it was closed for discussion. Brad and I have had an up and down relationship and even though we had a tiff, I still did what I was required to do and notified the appropriate parties immediately, and followed up numerous times in writing.

I felt he was being ridiculous and unprofessional and am not too proud to admit that I could have been more professional on that day. We all have our bad days and I need to be better at not feeling disrespected and hurt when someone is attacking me when I am trying to help them.

[JFierce]

Edited: Since more people post new info while I'm typing:


Well Jason stated a bit of the conversation with his version. Problem is this is a loaded question. As it's simply a battle of character and "who do I believe" without an actual transcript.

Which frankly is a bit ridiculous if someone wants that, as you'd need both parties to agree and I'm pretty sure Brad is past this since he's been paid and is trying to move forward.

[twinkledust9000]

This really sucks that John English and TAD would not pay the artists. Especially when you consider all the money they make from all the classes they teach. And they just got accredited. There has to be plenty of money of people can pay them with student loans.

But I still don't understand how you couldn't do something as president and owner of TAD though.

[Sentinel.]

I would be interested to see the emails Brad has saved to find out exactly what was said then, and when.

And just for clarity, since I'm still a little confused - the appropriate parties were John English and the finance department? They are the ones who ultimately dropped the ball?

[Jason Manley]

Ok I seriously have to go to bed. Tomorrow is a long day. Thanks for all the patience, questions, concerns and passion. There are some tough peeps in here that is for sure.

[Jason Manley]

Questions coming fast...last one...I do not know who dropped the ball. TAD finance was late in getting payments out. That is all I know. I asked numerous times if any artists were owed money, if so how much, and if so were payment arrangements made. I did not get an answer even to this day, despite additional attempts from my own personal attorney through legal channels.

[Jason Manley]

Twinkle TAD is a new program and the school is still small. If I had to guess, the issue is that the administration could use more help and extra hands to get all the work done. The program itself is stellar and the classes and student work speaks for itself. I imagine that such things will not happen again as no one wants to see anyone go unpaid. TAD is full of great people.

[Jason Manley]

Ok now I am off to bed. Goodnight everyone.

[twinkledust9000]

Just saw this come up on DA.

A letter from Shawn Barber. Pretty heavy.

http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/j...ties-357909498

[Ian Barker]

Edited: Since more people post new info while I'm typing:


Well Jason stated a bit of the conversation with his version. Problem is this is a loaded question. As it's simply a battle of character and "who do I believe" without an actual transcript.

Which frankly is a bit ridiculous if someone wants that, as you'd need both parties to agree and I'm pretty sure Brad is past this since he's been paid and is trying to move forward.

It seems at this point we're trying to figure out how much of a dick Jason was in his emails. Which frankly is not super important.

The bottom line seems to be that Jason redirected Brad's requests for payment to someone at TAD. Both became frustrated. Whether Jason could have done more to help Brad, I don't know, we'll find out soon enough. But I don't see that as such a big issue that I would leave the community over it, so for now I think we should back off.

One thing bothers me though. Were any artists shorthanded before TAD was founded and everything was through CA and MB? I don't recall the exact videos which were suspect, but I believe Marko's was one. Don't quote me on that.

[Sentinel.]

Took me a moment to see the post twinkledust was talking about, it's in the comments for anyone trying to find it. Beneath Barber's post is one by Sterling Hundley as well, and is worth a read. It's nice to finally hear a little bit from some TAD people, but I'm more confused about this than ever...

[JFierce]

This is feeling like a witch hunt now which ironically even Brad wouldn't want because he seemed to appreciate TAD as many do in the community.

Going through emails is literally just trying to dig into a battle of character "Hey who was the dick to one another and was it justified?". When the issue was why wasn't Brad paid and other artists.

But literally trying to find who the exact person who caused this issue if it wasn't Jason (which if you believe it was him I guess wait for the legal documents) is just trying to dig dirt on TAD and see it fail. As the real question was knowing, was it intentional and some big conspiracy of the entire school or powerful individuals? Brad doesn't think so.

Justified or not; dropping this nuke hurt TAD and TAD isn't only populated by the people who wronged me; it's comprised of people *just like me* trying to make a living in art.
I was wronged, but TAD isn't some cartoon villain plotting to suck the life-force from hapless artists; no one goes into business just to screw over as many people as possible and then rolls the dice to see if they can get away with it.

From these countless pages I don't really think so. If it was an individuals fault like someone in the financials department I can guarantee this persons being dealt with. If you were John and this big stain was being cast on your institution would you let this go without changing what caused it in your school? Nope.



Eh I'm going to bed. Hopefully things are more resolved tomorrow.

[twinkledust9000]

I don't know. Manley was president at TAD at the time. Whether it is Jason Manley or John English is anyone's guess. But there is something that definitely seems off here. I don't think just shrugging it off does anyone any good. If something like this isn't brought to light now, we all stand to be taken advantage again due to lack of knowledge on the business practices of who we are dealing with. Whether it is CA, TAD, or both.

Cryptcrawler went so far as to bring up legal action to them. There is no way this could have just slipped by. Someone high up would have been notified. And Manley was the president and received the emails. John English probably was aware of it too since he is in charge of a lot of stuff there. Someone deliberately ignores the issue and forced Brad to have to fight for his pay. THIS IS NOT RIGHT!

I can't believe peoe want to just sweep it under the rug!

[Ian Barker]

Took me a moment to see the post twinkledust was talking about, it's in the comments for anyone trying to find it. Beneath Barber's post is one by Sterling Hundley as well, and is worth a read. It's nice to finally hear a little bit from some TAD people, but I'm more confused about this than ever...

Shawn doesn't seem to reference any time he was specifically done wrong by Jason, seems he just took Brad at his word when calling Jason a tyrant at the end.

As for Sterling's post, I never doubted John English's integrity and I hope no one else does so without good cause either.

[Saracen]

removed

[Sentinel.]

I wasn't asking who was being a dick in their emails- I wanted to know if brad had been told that it was closed to discussion, because its one of the things that bothered me the most, was a possible contradiction, and I wanted an answer. Not a witch hunt, not trying to dig dirt and see TAD fail. I have nothing to gain from either of those things. And with all the statements made, I didn't understand how it got to this point and was asking for clarification on who might have been responsible.

[NeecHMonkeY]

I can't believe peoe want to just sweep it under the rug!

... Again.

[Ian Barker]

I can't believe peoe want to just sweep it under the rug!

It is not being swept under the rug. The purpose of Brad's post was to warn people about doing business with CA and TAD. That has been accomplished, and no one is forgetting it.

What some are willing to do is continue using CA, if it turns out funds were not purposefully withheld by Jason. That said Jason may still have some wrongs to confess to, but they may be minor enough that we can all move on.

Question totally ignored

Check post #452.

[Velocity Kendall]

Hey Scarecrow, you and me baby, art duel.

Got the guts to try and take me?


thats right, im throwin down the robots hand. time to settle this like the overgrown children we are.
lets dance bitch. unless youre scared.

[scarecrow7]

[twinkledust9000]

Sorry,dude.

This is not a minor issue. It is not something to just move along from. These people, wether it was Manley, John English, CA, or TAD, are suppose to be championing artists not withholding funds for two years and then only paying the guy who finally makes an issue out of it. It almost seems like he only got paid because it came to public attention. I wonder how long he would of had to wait if be hadn't made a public outcry.

The point is, people who run these things should know better. And what kind of community is this if we condone this kind of behavior?

It is not something to ignore.

JM has said it was both John English and the finance person at TAD who are responsible. Maybe they will share their side of the story. If it was them, then I suppose I can hold my head high when I say I support this community. I just won't take any classes from TAD.
If it turns out it wasn't them, I'm afraid I will have lost faith in this site and this community.

[Dirty C]

Hey Scarecrow, you and me baby, art duel.

Got the guts to try and take me?


thats right, im throwin down the robots hand. time to settle this like the overgrown children we are.
lets dance bitch. unless youre scared.

What are you even talking about?

[Velocity Kendall]

The point is, people who run these things should know better. And what kind of community is this if we condone this kind of behavior?
.

One that to date youve made 38 posts in since 2007, almost all of them in the last 48 hours. which is to say one you dont give a fuck about. get out my face when Im challenging a man(?) to an art duel you fucking faker.

Come on Scaredy Crow, you chicken?

[Waipunga]

VK. I have got your 6 bro. Not that good at drawing shit though......anything else I can help with?

Now how about we all take a long breath, go have a brew, make some art (yes angry art is good) and have a wee think before this gets worse.

Its a big bad world out there fellow artists, or have we all become used car vendors or pedlars of some other shit?

And all you guys who are throwing shit and hiding behind freshly created accounts.........shame on you.......at least have the guts to front with your usual IDs.

[scarecrow7]

After making all of those all of those ridiculous comments you are now trying to look like a tough guy? LOL

[Ian Barker]

Sorry,dude.

This is not a minor issue. It is not something to just move along from. These people, wether it was Manley, John English, CA, or TAD, are suppose to be championing artists not withholding funds for two years and then only paying the guy who finally makes an issue out of it. It almost seems like he only got paid because it came to public attention. I wonder how long he would of had to wait if be hadn't made a public outcry.

The point is, people who run these things should know better. And what kind of community is this if we condone this kind of behavior?

It is not something to ignore.

JM has said it was both John English and the finance person at TAD who are responsible. Maybe they will share their side of the story. If it was them, then I suppose I can hold my head high when I say I support this community. I just won't take any classes from TAD.
If it turns out it wasn't them, I'm afraid I will have lost faith in this site and this community.

That was not my point. Whoever purposefully withheld funds from these artists will not be quickly forgiven, that is a very big deal (I don't care if it's common or for a small amount of money. Not tolerable.) My point is that if it turns out Jason's only wrong-doing was being rude to Brad or something similar, I'm fine with moving on and continuing to post on CA.

If some individual is at fault, I for one would like to see them exposed. The fact that this is a common problem for artists is not cool in my humble opinion, and those who rob artists deserve having their reputation dragged through the mud at the bare minimum.

[Velocity Kendall]

Haha what a puss. And another longtime contributer there with 12 posts since march 2012. who the fuck are you fannies?
Ok carry on.

[Asahi-SD-]

haaa rhetoric... always usefull to avoid a specific issue and make it look like it has been adressed .... You got to love how Mr Manley got out of all this troubles almost untouched , well played , from the classic " i could have done better better this day i am just a human with up and downs " to smoothe hard feelings , to the "running away from the main problem " by twisting some nicely done sentences ... nahh we got a pro rhetorician here ... lame ...

[Main Loop]

....how old are we?

[Incinerated]

Settle it in a thunderdome come on scarecrow7.

Should be a rule on this site, you should be able to challenge people to a good old artsy thunderdome...