The Royalty Problem - News: Brad got paid from TAD

[Main Loop]

http:///forum/showthread.php?t=16374

Edit: Since you can't even post cee gee hub dot com here without it getting blanked out, (really??) here is the link to his statement on Deviantart: http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/a...ight-358271492

[skullsquid]

Link is broken FIX IT FIX IT

[Main Loop]

shit you wanna know why? Cee Gee Hub is censored here. CENSORED

[Deadlyhazard]

God damnit, CGHUB censors shit too? That seems like an odd link though, it does have an http before the title.

[Main Loop]

http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/a...ight-358271492 See if this works

[skullsquid]

Here

http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/j...ight-358271492

Edit: Oh damn too slow.

[Velocity Kendall]

no he means in links. it edits it out.
i dont even...

[Deadlyhazard]

http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/a...ight-358271492 edit: IM REALLY SLOW o>o

[JeffX99]

JeffX99, you fail to see the point that Manley literally crucified people for the very thing he's doing to the best among us, in this community, the exact thing he claimed to be saving people from. For many, that is what hurts most. He claims to be the artists champion, when in the background, many people have been screwed by him for the very thing he rips others apart for.

CA.org = JM. You continue to support him, you'll get more of the same. Some people seem to like getting screwed, so next time maybe you should volunteer. Pretty simple really. The very least is that we can educate people that it will probably happen again.

Fair enough...wasn't around to see that happen so very removed from it myself and therefore can really have no opinion. Here's what I know, in my experience I have had no issues with Jason personally...nor do I think Jason has been involved enough with CA while I've been around these past couple years to have any real influence on it (obviously that is changing now with his announcement to become more involved). Further, as I've said, if there was a better place to hang out and discuss art, help young artists find some direction, etc. I'd be there. So to me CA does not = JM.

I'm not interested in supporting or defending any individual...nor tearing him/her down publicly. And no, I don't like getting screwed and in fact I'm pretty well known for standing on my integrity - I've faced down EA execs more than once, asked tough questions and led heated meetings with CEOs (Trip Hawkins in this case). Strikes me as odd that all these folks have popped out of the woodwork with their righteous torches aflame and claiming to be part of this community. Not since I've been here.

But yeah, I'm as allergic to hypocrisy as I am to heresay and mob rule.

[Piracy Solution]

38k a month is too much for a small business to sustain.

Jason has been paying the 3800.00 dollar monthly fee which covers (x number) of videos for the artists involved, because TAD stopped doing so. It is not 38k. Jason does not have to personally pay for any of the artist's videos, but he has, even though he does not personally see any of the money from videos other than his own.

[Venger]

The CGHUB censor is old, nothing to do with this 'drama'

[Sinix]

I wish the art world and the business world would just fuck already and get it over with.

[Main Loop]

I know, it's still no less ridiculous that the censor is even still around.

[twinkledust9000]

Jason has been paying the 3800.00 dollar monthly fee which covers (x number) of videos for the artists involved, because TAD stopped doing so. It is not 38k. Jason does not have to personally pay for any of the artist's videos, but he has, even though he does not personally see any of the money from videos other than his own.

First: there's no way to know that unless there is proof.

Second: maybe. And then again maybe he used money he was suppose to give to the artists to pay for that and who knows what else.

All this doesn't ad up. Something is going on here. That much is obvious.

[Qitsune]

In Soviet CA, links censor you? (I never got that meme, but I think it should go like this)

[alesoun]

I am so happy that Brad finally got his money, courtesy of John English. I hope the others got their money, too. Hello,
massivedvd_thereturn. Sorry (this may well get me banned) but I think you may be suffering from premature introduction.

[JFierce]

Admittedly we don't have all the facts, however it doesn't explain this:

"Strangely and sadly, my attempts to inform Jason Manley directly that TAD's financial department was refusing to pay me or even return my emails were met with contempt and condescending lectures.
At the time I couldn't understand it; I thought that he would have been keenly interested to know that something so damaging was happening in his own company; a company that prides itself on enlightening and educating artists.
After all, the financial department at TAD, his personal legal council, co-founder of TAD and other faculty had all been copied into the conversation by Mr Manley himself, it was truly baffling."

You didn't seem overly bothered when informed (according to Mr.Rigney) and we have no timeline on this - he could have informed you 2 years ago or last week.
If Mr.Rigney's documentation is correct, then your 'sudden concern' now, on exposure, seems a little hollow.

Well to play devils advocate (if it's even that, I'm not siding with anyone. Just reading and watching events unfold taking in bits and pieces. Honestly don't know if I'm staying or not.)

So far Jason and I think I remember seeing a post of TAD say something along the lines of not being involved in each others finances. Think it was quoted last page

' For the record, ConceptArt.Org has NEVER been allowed transparency into TAD Finance and is a separate company. Personally, I do not draw ANY money from the royalties of the artists videos, except for those of my own creation'

Believe that's been a pretty constant statement since like page 2 from Jason.

just wanted to say that I take this very seriously and sent this over to management at TAD as soon as it came to my attention this evening as TAD handles all video finances, and has done so for over three years.

It is true that Brad and I have had a somewhat volatile professional relationship, and while we have had our differences and disagreements, I have nothing but respect for what he does and consider him of the most talented designers and illustrators in the industry. If he, or anyone else is owed something, they need to be paid. There are no if's and or buts about it. Neither I personally, nor does ConceptArt.org, have any access to video royalty payment information at all as that has been handled by TAD finance, but those that do have been informed that they need to check into this immediately, and I believe that TAD has made a response that John English will be taking responsibility.

The people that think Jasons a liar etc won't take this for a grain of salt
I don't know the guy so I'm just going to take that with the quote from
I think it was Ron Lemen of TAD.

"Brad, I am sorry about this and can honestly say that Vanessa and I knew nothing of this and neither have the other instructors we teach with.

I am going to say this; TAD and CA are tied together by association through an individual.

I'm in charge of the entertainment department and I can honestly say to my knowledge that we do nothing with CA in regards to any business, especially regarding CA merchandise;
TAD is TAD, CA IS CA. We don't mix business together, but we do make announcements there on CA like we do here at DA.

So from what I gather both TAD and Jason say they don't deal with each other. The TAD post, says they don't deal with CA merchandise. I think I remember Jason saying the instructional vids were TAD not CA.

I know very little about the history behind CA and TAD and these videos. So my question is simply:

Are the videos TAD or CA? or if they were both was Brad paid when it was CA before it somehow switched over to TAD? (if that occurred since I remember hearing something about Massive DVD but also them being TAD downloads)


Because if the videos are TAD and Jason was contacted over a matter that his company doesn't even deal with based on both his statements and TAD. Then Brad contacting Jason about something for a separate company seems a bit out of his hands. Then the bits about Jason and Brad's relationship not exactly being pleasant.



EDIT:

From brads response that I guess answers my question.

What it boils down to is that my contract for the tutorial was initially with Conceptart.Org and that TAD was later on the hook for my royalties.

I think what *is* my responsibility is to make clear is that TAD is no longer affiliated with Conceptart.Org/Manley anymore.
I don't know the exact details of that.

So yeah.... from his response as I'm reading he mentions TAD a lot. Not CA.org. Honestly unless I get some more details this all felt like a CA Jason witch hunt.

[Venger]

Yup, there's a lot left unsaid and the simple expediency at which it was rectified, seems like a lot of crossed wires to me… (and I mean a lot)

[twinkledust9000]

That would be a fine explanation. Only there is one problem.

Until recently, and for the last couple of years Manley was president of TAD. So whether CA or TAD were contacted it WAS his company. Since Cryptcrawler has been asking for his pay and not getting it for the last two years it was Manley's responsibility to take care of it.

I know it's not pleasant to say these things but lets not stick our heads in the sand.

[Venger]

This is true, but that just makes him a bad businessman. It depends wether you think the withholding of funds was intentional?

[JFierce]

True, and fair enough.

Then I guess my next question to sort things out would be when did Jason leave TAD? And finally when did Brad contact Jason?

He said attempts so that means on multiple occasions. Because you don't normally go to the president for issues with getting paid unless it's last ditch efforts. Usually it's through I'm guessing the department that deals with finances and writing the checks. So if Jason was still head of TAD then yerp that's pretty shitty.


and as Venger beat me to before my edit: Was it intentional. As Brad in his response says there are some bad apples but he doesn't feel TAD as a whole is some evil cartoon villain trying to drain money from other artists. And if Jason never dealt or received money from the videos then what motivation is there in withholding funds which is probably taken care of by a financial department.

[Venger]

That's that big bit of muddle we don't know about - the large patch of quiet from TAD.

[Raoul Duke]

pirate hunter- Sorry about the extra zero. But it's still a business based on selling a niche product at a high price. Unlike most businesses with that kind of scale there is no hope for collector resell value. The only reason why they were as successful as they were was to support the community. If it wasn't for that sales would be missing a zero. Piracy or not.

[scarecrow7]

While JM was doing his "research" John English did the right thing. Brad got the money that he deserved. I hope this is enough evidence for you *cough* VK *cough*. Victory for the good guys.

[Velocity Kendall]

Yes I am glad.

Evidence.. is there anything new really?

[Appylon]

Hey everyone, I realize I am a nobody but I felt obliged to make a few comments. Take it or leave it for the humble person that I am trying to be.

Firstly, I have to admit that I have, since first joining, been a silent observer of the events that transpire here on CA. Truthfully, I haven't even been here long relative to the majority of you. But despite how ugly this whole thing is with CA, TAD and Crypt, and the tempers flaring even in this tread - I am in awe of the majority of you for trying to maintain such a respect for one another. Yes - there is a heated debate, people are frustrated, many are leaving. But if what I have read over the course of these first 11 pages is any indication of the personalities involved with CA, then I regret to not having tried harder to get to know more of you. I understand that this is ugly and many of the things said are similarly so, but I have a new profound respect for the passion you people are showing to one another during this time.

Secondly, I believe my only reasonable action is to maintain business as usual until I full understand the situation. I am too stupid to be able to now, I wish I weren't and I blame my parents - but until I understand the situation fully I don't feel equipped to do anything differently. If at the end of this there is a mass migration, I will try and do what is right. I respect CryptCrawler as one of my heroes, I respect Manly for being involved with CA, and I respect cold logical justice. I do not respect people being taken advantage of, but I try to be understanding of mistakes as well.

I want CA to continue, if only for the second chance of getting to know some of you more personally. If that is not in the cards it makes me sad. If over the course of the next few pages I learn more than I do now, forgive me if my reaction feels too passive one way or the other.

-Scott

[Main Loop]

We're not out of the woods yet. There are still a lot of unanswered questions.

[Anton Chigurh]

We're not out of the woods yet. There are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Like...Manley's no longer "on staff" with TAD but since he still promotes it via the .org is it safe to assume he gets a commission from TAD per student referred by CA?

[skullsquid]

I know anytime I'm completely innocent I have to do days of research just to be sure. (Sarcasm intended. Obviously.)

OMG!!! I couldn't roll my eyes back any farther if I tried.

I'm just going to quote this because it's amazing.

[Appylon]

edit:
@skullsquid - Without condemning or condoning, Manly is probably going through 2 years of emails with several dozens of people to gather as much information that might even be tangentially related to the transactions. He probably is also in contact with a lawyer who is also reviewing the whole situation.

_

I feel guilty posting without having art to show...

Finally caught up, before my last post I was already aware of Brad being paid and had read his most recent update. So I'm super happy for at least some resolution for him and his family despite the unfortunate delay. I found Brad's response to be very reasonable. I also found Manley's Brother's post to be as well. Hopefully situations like this can be avoided in the future through a clearer infrastructure. The separation between TAD and CA feels like a good first step in terms of reevaluating how finances are ran. Simplify. It's a shame that it will drag down all the positive benefits to the pairing... but it feels like a time for reconstruction.

The questioning lies in the reasoning behind why it took place to begin with. To me, and my vastly insufficient experience in company finances, I can understand where bureaucracy breaks down. Especially when you are involved in some complex relationship between two entities. This can be caused through laziness or put off through personal responsibilities. It sucks but it's kind of a reality. A shitty irresponsible reality that can and should be avoided.

My presence here is probably too late to offer anything of substance or significance, but better late then never.