The Royalty Problem - News: Brad got paid from TAD

[Andantonius]

i think if the guy got payed $5000 and over he should be happy any thing that's under that amount he should be angry...how mutch do you think he deserve? for a video that he's art vid is speed up video with his voice over and most of the time hes talking off topic.

Kindly remove yourself from this topic and never post in it again, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. No one cares how 'good' you think the video was or how much it 'deserves', this is not a social club where we get to vote on who has the best macaroni art, this is a professional business world and Brad is owed money CONTRACTUALLY. If the dvd made sales, he deserves to be paid 100% of what his contract said he would be paid; there are no ifs, ands or buts about it.

[creeptool]

Who are you and why do you keep posting nonsensical bullshit?

i'm the silent majority big mouth i don't sweat you lol joking it's obviously a quote from the rocky movie...screw you guy's i'm from the america even though its seems more like a dictatorship lately it's still a free country i think lol

[Harkins]

i'm the silent majority big mouth i don't sweat you lol joking it's obviously a quote from the rocky movie...screw you guy's i'm from the america even though its seems more like a dictatorship lately it's still a free country i think lol

At least he provides comic relief.

[D0ming0]

i'm the silent majority big mouth i don't sweat you lol joking it's obviously a quote from the rocky movie...screw you guy's i'm from the america even though its seems more like a dictatorship lately it's still a free country i think lol

I thought the silent majority was meant to be silent?

@Star Eater: While you're about, did you bring your ban stick?

@Harkins: Please don't leave, I find your cheery avatar, well, cheery.

[skullsquid]

i'm the silent majority big mouth i don't sweat you lol joking it's obviously a quote from the rocky movie...screw you guy's i'm from the america even though its seems more like a dictatorship lately it's still a free country i think lol

Nope you're just a 17 year old kid. That's all that needs to be said.

Speaking of which, it's probably been 48hrs, when are we getting at least a statement?

[creeptool]

sorry everyone i had my wizdomtooth taken out to day lol no lie its way im not in shcool rite now and i'm usually not so post crazzy.

[Harkins]

sorry everyone i had my wizdomtooth taken out to day lol no lie its way im not in shcool rite now and i'm usually not so post crazzy.

@Skullsquid - I'm going with 12
@D0ming0 - Haha. Probably had something to do with the hot girl that was standing to my right when that picture was taken. Cropped her out tho.

[Main Loop]

Creeptool, stop. It's not funny.

[creeptool]

hahaha!! can you pleas take it off now

[Black Spot]

It gets bigger with every stupid comment. Wear it with pride for a week.

[Ethically Challenged]

Hey guys, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I've been reading, with growing uneasiness, about instructors pulling out of the London event. Is there any information about the specifics? Who exactly is missing from the original lineup?

[t i m]

My contribution..


A year ago or so I IM'ed Jason on facebook. I had never spoken to him before, nor him to me. Granted I have been on this board since close to the beginning, our paths had never crossed. I didn't expect a response to my "Hey Jason" message, but to my surprise I got a "What's up!" reply back. We shot the shit for the better part of an hour. He took the time to give me some really sound advice on my artwork. He told me all about the goings on with TAD and how excited he was to be moving forward with it. I found him to be a really humble guy, he didn't know me from Adam, yet we were chatting it up like old pals. Truth be told, I half expected him to be a jerk or blow me off. Turns out that couldn't have been further from the truth.

That is my personal experience with the man, it does not discredit your personal experiences with him. Draw whatever conclusions you'd like.



Does CA/Manley owe money to artists who provided a service. Yes. Did they get "screwed" for lack of a better term, Yes.

Did CA/Manley lose revenue from the video sales from the illegal pirating of these videos. Yes. Did Manley get "screwed", Yes.

(Unfortunately though we can't point our fingers and condemn the invisible thieves out there who torrented these videos and stole money from BOTH Jason and Brad/Others. It doesn't anger you that you had to fork over hard earned cash, like I did when I bought Crypt's video, yet others simply downloaded it for free?)

Does that relieve CA/Manley from paying the artists what is owed, based on the terms of their contract (whatever they may be), No.




My 2 cents.

[Metal Fingers]

[meth]

46.24

M

[D0ming0]

Hey guys, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I've been reading, with growing uneasiness, about instructors pulling out of the London event. Is there any information about the specifics? Who exactly is missing from the original lineup?

Ron Lemen stated on a comment to Brad's DA post that he and his wife would not be going. That's all I've read.

I hope we're not going to see a lot of knee jerk reactions and that people will let the dust settle on this before making decisions that will affect a lot of innocent people.

[Harkins]

On a semi-related note. Does anyone know of a way to buy the hostile takeover tutorial? Looks like there's no way to get it now.

[dracken]

On a semi-related note. Does anyone know of a way to buy the hostile takeover tutorial? Looks like there's no way to get it now.

As far as I can tell all the videos are gone, as is access to the streaming videos if you purchased those.

Of course for a "small fee" I could sell you my copy

[JeffX99]

Tell you what (and this is not to defend shitty business practices and lack of integrity), but if everyone got so fired up and righteously indignant about every little transgression that ever occurred...well ok, I have no idea what that would look like, but...you'd pretty much have to walk around naked and eat dead shit by the side of the road. And maybe some fruits and berries. 'Cause you couldn't in all conscious use a bank. Wear clothes and sneakers made by kids in third world countries. Use fuel. Look at any Apple product without wanting to smash. Etc.

Just sayin.

[Harkins]

Tell you what (and this is not to defend shitty business practices and lack of integrity), but if everyone got so fired up and righteously indignant about every little transgression that ever occurred...well ok, I have no idea what that would look like, but...you'd pretty much have to walk around naked and eat dead shit by the side of the road. And maybe some fruits and berries. 'Cause you couldn't in all conscious use a bank. Wear clothes and sneakers made by kids in third world countries. Use fuel. Look at any Apple product without wanting to smash. Etc.

Just sayin.

Jeff I'll be honest in that I'm not 100% sure you're trying to say, but tell me if I'm wrong. You're trying to make the point that there's so much corporate wrong-doing going on in the world, that it's pointless to buy anything from any company or use anyones product. That's a pretty bold, generalizing statement. We all know corporations try to weasel their way around, but you can't blatantly not pay contracts. You use Apple as an example. Do you know what would happen to them if your favorite artist came forward with information saying they weren't paying them the royalties from iTunes downloads? Apple would be fucked and I bet you would feel at least a little sympathy if not rage towards them on behalf of that artist you enjoy.

[sone_one]

@ tim... fair points man, good story, but i dont see how the pirating issue has any importance in this context. this is about client/contractor relationship and ethical standards when it comes how to deal with each other. people potentially pirating anything, must not lead to evaluation of the contractors claim. thats insinuating that publishers had to pay writers/grahic designers/illustrators less, if the book gets stolen from a book store. what kind of business practice is that? do we want an enviroment where (justified) royalties are balanced with the loss of the publisher due to piracy? certainly not!. thats neither of our business nor our responsibility.

[Chordate]

Tell you what (and this is not to defend shitty business practices and lack of integrity), but if everyone got so fired up and righteously indignant about every little transgression that ever occurred...well ok, I have no idea what that would look like, but...you'd pretty much have to walk around naked and eat dead shit by the side of the road. And maybe some fruits and berries. 'Cause you couldn't in all conscious use a bank. Wear clothes and sneakers made by kids in third world countries. Use fuel. Look at any Apple product without wanting to smash. Etc.

Just sayin.

This doesnt make any sense...at all

[JFierce]

On a semi-related note. Does anyone know of a way to buy the hostile takeover tutorial? Looks like there's no way to get it now.

I was going to say message Brad or something. I'm guessing the guy that made it has a copy and would probably be willing to sell. But at the same time the guys inbox must be blowing up from this event.

[sone_one]

Tell you what (and this is not to defend shitty business practices and lack of integrity), but if everyone got so fired up and righteously indignant about every little transgression that ever occurred...well ok, I have no idea what that would look like, but...you'd pretty much have to walk around naked and eat dead shit by the side of the road. And maybe some fruits and berries. 'Cause you couldn't in all conscious use a bank. Wear clothes and sneakers made by kids in third world countries. Use fuel. Look at any Apple product without wanting to smash. Etc.

Just sayin.

i appreciate every call to attention, if it comes to our daily living, reconsidering whom we support, what we really need etc.

but this is just the wrong place imo. it feels a lot like saying "dont worrry about the fish, if you can ride a dinghy saving the oceans!"

[keeptime]

i'm the silent majority big mouth i don't sweat you lol joking it's obviously a quote from the rocky movie...screw you guy's i'm from the america even though its seems more like a dictatorship lately it's still a free country i think lol

You're free to say whatever you want, but we're also free to call you an idiot for it. Please shut up. You're making the rest of us teenagers look bad.

I'm going withhold my opinion on CA until I hear more from Jason, but I just wanted to say that I'm really sad to see a lot of people go. A lot of you helped me when I needed it, both directly and indirectly through helping others or posting great advice. CA's a great community and I hope it stays that way despite all of this drama.

[thomasChatworth]

This is a matter of character, morality and principle and the future of this industry. If these things are important to you as artists, then this situation will be important to you. If not, then you will go on your way and likely continue to support people and institutions that directly or indirectly hurt and take advantage of you or those around you.

You can do something to stand up against the injustices in the world, it only takes a minute. The easiest way is with your wallet and time (where and how you spend it). With social media a single voice can be heard louder than ever before, and spread around the world in seconds (as was the case here). If you roll over and take your beating every time, then nothing will change and you can expect more of the same. At that point, you get what you deserve.

All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing. Brad is a good man, and by his brave example he has shed light on something so that others might avoid going through what he has experienced. It's not easy to do what he did, and he should be applauded for exposing what is really going on behind the scenes. Others who have done this in the past have been banned, threatened and bullied out of the picture. This is what many of the new people don't understand. There is a long list of wrongs that is the source of so much frustration and animosity among those who have been on the ride long enough. Would you rather put blinders on and pretend that everything is ok, just before you get your turn?

When you or someone you care about gets hurt in the future, you may look back with different understanding on this situation. Many people don't do anything until they are directly affected, and usually by then it's too late to actually do anything about it. You say it doesn't affect you, so why should you do anything about it? Well then you do get what what you deserve.

Many people may be supporting the situation out of ignorance, or from a lack of experience. But when you get the same result over and over, those that have been through the same thing many times want to warn people for the benefit of others so they don't repeat their past mistakes.

For those who are new, many of the past wrongs have been swept under the rug, censored and whitewashed so that you will never know what has happened. Most of those who can remember have a different perspective on the matter, which explains the dichotomy between old and new (and why most of the old has disappeared). The community that once was will never be again because of this, and it's what many misunderstand because they haven't experience it firsthand. Once you are banned from the site after years of support for no good reason, you will have a different perspective.

To imply that because some people are immoral justifies that behavior for everyone as Andrew did, gives a free pass to the people in this world who do harm and take advantage of those weaker than themselves. The world is full of these kind of examples, but it's up to us to work toward a better future.

The core problem is that things here are not how they are presented. The emperor has no clothes if the actions don't match the words. Does the community exist to promote, enable, and protect artists? If it does, then it will be that much stronger.

If not, then your foundation is built on sand, and eventually it will crumble, as we have witnessed over the last few years. But if the leader is a morally corrupt vampire that sucks the life from the community, that can only be hidden for so long. Does the community exist to enrich the owner at it's own expense and detriment? If you continue to support it, then that is just what you are doing.

It won't sustain life much longer under that paradigm.

[t i m]

@ tim... fair points man, good story, but i dont see how the pirating issue has any importance in this context. this is about client/contractor relationship and ethical standards when it comes how to deal with each other. people potentially pirating anything, must not lead to evaluation of the contractors claim. thats insinuating that publishers had to pay writers/grahic designers/illustrators less, if the book gets stolen from a book store. what kind of business practice is that? do we want an enviroment where (justified) royalties are balanced with the loss of the publisher due to piracy? certainly not!. thats neither of our business nor our responsibility.

I think if we are going to examine so harshly one aspect of the problem (Manley) we should look at the picture as a whole. I didn't want to go so far as to give certain parties involved an excuse not to pay people what is owed. I simply wanted to shed light on the fact that everyone, with the exception of the people who illegally downloaded the videos got screwed. Ultimately it will be Manley who has to bite the bullet and pay up. It is a tough pill to swallow however, and there is lesson to be learned in all this.

He distributed a digital product, and exposed himself to the risk of lost revenue, should these videos be acquired illegally, which is exactly what happened. To my knowledge they don't offer insurances on digital theft, like they would offer to a book store should their inventory be stolen, burn down, etc. He has a contract with the Artist who provided them with the content, in the same way the publisher has a contract with the suppliers who provide them with the raw materials/machinery to make their books. So unlike our publisher/book store scenario, in the case of theft he has no recourse to recoup his lost revenue to pay his overhead. In our other scenario there is the insurance money the book store would have gotten - to pay the publisher - publisher pays the suppliers.

So where do you go from there? Well one could speculate as to why, after the theft, the artists weren't paid. Was it a case of funds being tied up in other projects (TAD)? Spite between two parties who clearly didn't have a good working relationship? Incompetence? All or none of these are possible.

Irregardless of circumstances, the fact remains he has to pay what is owed, which the contract states. Period.

OFFTOPIC

On the personal side I am irked when people come out of the woodwork and demonize and crucify this man, pretend to know his motivations throw out words like "egomaniac" and "All the things I've heard..", "Buisness as usual at CA.." I find this especially infuriating when the people lobbing these attacks are the same ones who stand to gain the most from the downfall of CA. Once a site is large enough it becomes a commodity. You can monetize it. So when certain people are lobbying the hardest for the demise of CA, it forces me to call into question their motivations. You've cited examples of your personal issues with Jason. Fair enough. My personal experiences have been different, so who is right? As a consumer and a person who might be interested in joining your art site you have to understand, that being ambassadors for this site, I find your behavior exploitative and it turns me off completely. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you have no intentions to profit from a large influx in traffic to your site. Maybe you don't have a personal vendetta. Maybe you are truly pissed off that an artist didn't get payed. From my eyes though based on what I've read I have a hard time coming to that last conclusion. So who's fault is that?

OFFTOPIC



On a side note. Brad's video was spectacular. I hope there is a way for it to become available again where all parties involved can prosper. It was well worth the $60.

[thomasChatworth]

This is a matter of character, morality and principle and the future of this industry. If these things are important to you as artists, then this situation will be important to you. If not, then you will go on your way and likely continue to support people and institutions that directly or indirectly hurt and take advantage of you or those around you.

You can do something to stand up against the injustices in the world, it only takes a minute. The easiest way is with your wallet and time. With social media a single voice can be heard louder than ever before, and spread around the world in seconds. If you roll over and take your beating every time, then nothing will change and you can expect more of the same. At that point, you get what you deserve.

All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing. Brad is a good man, and by his brave example he has shed light on something so that others might avoid going through what he has experienced. It's not easy to do what he did, and he should be applauded for exposing what is really going on behind the scenes. Others who have done this in the past have been banned, threatened and bullied out of the picture. Would you rather put blinders on and pretend that everything is ok, just before you get your turn?

When you or someone you care about gets hurt in the future, you may look back with different understanding on this situation. Many people don't do anything until they are directly affected, and usually by then it's too late to actually do anything about it.

Many people may be supporting the situation out of ignorance, or from a lack of experience. But when you get the same result over and over, those that have been through the same thing many times want to warn people for the benefit of others so they don't repeat their past mistakes.

For those who are new, many of the past wrongs have been swept under the rug, censored and whitewashed so that you will never know what has happened. Most of those who can remember have a different perspective on the matter, which explains the dichotomy between old and new (and why most of the old has disappeared). The community that once was will never be again because of this, and it's what you many misunderstand because they haven't experience it firsthand. Once you are banned from the site after years of support, you will have a different perspective.

To imply that because some people are immoral justifies that behavior for everyone as Andrew did, gives a free pass to the people in this world who do harm and take advantage of those weaker than themselves. The world is full of these examples, but it's up to us to work toward a better future.

The core problem is that things here are not how they are presented. The emperor has no clothes if the actions don't match the words. Does the community exist to promote, enable, and protect artists? If it does, then it will be that much stronger. If not, then your foundation is built on sand, and eventually it will crumble. But if the leader is a vampire that sucks the life from the community, that can only be hidden for so long. Does the community exist to enrich the owner at it's own expense and detriment?

If you continue to support it, then that is just what you are doing.

[skullsquid]

Updates?

[Jason Manley]

Ok folks...I just wanted to update you that I am still working intensively on providing the information that will give the transparency that everyone seeks and have found some solutions to do so. If judgement can please be reserved until the facts are revealed and proven, it would be appreciated. For the record, ConceptArt.Org has NEVER been allowed transparency into TAD Finance and is a separate company. Personally, I do not draw ANY money from the royalties of the artists videos, except for those of my own creation (like my composition video, which I have the same deal as any other artist who makes them), and I have allowed part my own royalties to be used to pay for the servers and site here to keep it up and free and online, as has been the case over the years. I fully understand that y'all want answers and they will be provided. Please hang in there. This has to be handled to perfection and it has my full attention as I too seek answers and truth. I have not personally had transparency into TAD Finance for a long time and no longer work for TAD so it is taking time to piece it all together. Y'all do not owe me anything and yet I must hope and be thankful for patience and time to bring transparency to these incredibly important questions and concerns. I am working on it and will keep you all updated.

Best,


Jason

[Harkins]

On the personal side I am irked when people come out of the woodwork and demonize and crucify this man, pretend to know his motivations throw out words like "egomaniac" and "All the things I've heard..", "Buisness as usual at CA.." I find this especially infuriating when the people lobbing these attacks are the same ones who stand to gain the most from the downfall of CA. Once a site is large enough it becomes a commodity. You can monetize it. So when certain people are lobbying the hardest for the demise of CA, it forces me to call into question their motivations. You've cited examples of your personal issues with Jason. Fair enough. My personal experiences have been different, so who is right? As a consumer and a person who might be interested in joining your art site you have to understand, that being ambassadors for this site, I find your behavior exploitative and it turns me off completely. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you have no intentions to profit from a large influx in traffic to your site. Maybe you don't have a personal vendetta. Maybe you are truly pissed off that an artist didn't get payed. From my eyes though based on what I've read I have a hard time coming to that last conclusion. So who's fault is that?



On a side note. Brad's video was spectacular. I hope there is a way for it to become available again where all parties involved can prosper. It was well worth the $60.

That makes a lot of sense and I like what you said. My gut feelings are just different from yours. However, I appreciate your logic. I also desperately want to get a copy of that tutorial.