The Royalty Problem - News: Brad got paid from TAD

[saprissa9]

Saprissa your the biggest cunt on this site. your not a troll, but your a simple and utter twat/cunt.

Look for yourselves! This is the kind of person Thanoss is. What do you win by defending this site so much? These are the trolls that Brad warned us in his letter. Thank you for showing your true colors thanoss. What? Can't argue like a normal human being?

[warburton]

Brad Rigney, with a few cans of gasoline and 1 little blog post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0AXgaFqEas

[Mr.Pryminista]

It's been an interesting read so far...

Patiently (and attentively) waiting to see how this all unfolds.

I will say this though: I love TAD. I am currently a student there and it's truly been a life-changing experience. Going to TAD has been so much more than just an art education. It is unfortunate that not everyone can afford it despite it being far cheaper than just about every other major art school out there. I hope that it lives on and that this event is a small bump in the road.

[Incinerated]

Damn it.

[onionface]

Suppose everything that Jason has been accused of is true. Even if it were, is that reason to stop using this forum, a free resource that most of us have learned so much from? Using this forum doesn't give anyone money, and so is not supporting anyone directly -- it only helps you.

Lulie, yes it is a reason to stop using the forum, and do not doubt it.
CA is a place were TAD gets access to thousands of artists. You see their banners and ads, you join the CA mailing list and you get TAD updates and new releases too.
And during the live CA workshops you can be sure that TAD will, if not saturate the show, at least be omni present, enrolling or "indoctrinating" new students.
CA also has a jobs section. I may be wrong, but I assume advertisers pay to advertise here?
Basically CA is fodder for the cannon. You can not support CA without in some way lending support to TAD/ Massive Black/ Jason Manley

What makes this little hiccup into a possible cardiac arrest - this is not the first time that CA has had a mass departure.
Those folk who have been on this forum for more than a few years may remember the debacle which resulted in many professional artists leaving the forums.
This is why some of the older joiners are more pessimistic than recent joiners. I think to forum veterans it's not enough that Jason Manley simply apologise or plead ignorance.
He is going to have to give some solid explanation, and justify his actions and those of TAD, and possibly even offer full disclosure.

I don't know about you.
but I don't want to be part of a forum that acts as a recruitment platform for an institution that betrays the trust of it's patrons.
And so I await Mr Manley's explanation.

[requiem]

The damage this has caused to TAD's reputation is dramatic. This viral post is the first a lot of industry people, like myself and my co-workers, have heard of the program, and it's what is forming our first impressions.

[lungcell]

Brad is a dick for bringing it out in public, but I can sympathize.

Brad isn't a dick for bringing this up. This kind of carry on is sustained through silence and ignorance, and probably fear too. It takes balls to bring it up and risk friends, work and reputation.

[ConnyNordlund]

So stupid that things has to splatter all over the damn walls before someone goes "oh nooo we had no ideaaa!"

[Havok Reed]

Brad isn't a dick for bringing this up. This kind of carry on is sustained through silence and ignorance, and probably fear too. It takes balls to bring it up and risk friends, work and reputation.

Well look at it from this angle. It was selfish of him to bring it up, because look at what has happened, anger, hate and people leaving. Again, I am not supporting what happened, just showing you from Arshes' perspective. This is a sanctuary for many people and to have it taken from them sucks.

[Venger]

I honestly feel it was Brad's last resort.
We're talking of 2 years trying to get your payments here.

Sadly to me, this rings of poor/bad management and it seems it could have been resolved without all of this drama.
You reap what you sow…

[skullsquid]

Well look at it from this angle. It was selfish of him to bring it up, because look at what has happened, anger, hate and people leaving. Again, I am not supporting what happened, just showing you from Arshes' perspective. This is a sanctuary for many people and to have it taken from them sucks.

Why was it selfish to point out poor and dishonest business practices?
It would be selfish only if he came here and posted that piece here.
Only then would that be selfish and dick-ish and whatever else you want to say.

Edit: Yeah the Dagger plugs are tacky as shit.

[Chordate]

Well look at it from this angle. It was selfish of him to bring it up, because look at what has happened, anger, hate and people leaving. Again, I am not supporting what happened, just showing you from Arshes' perspective. This is a sanctuary for many people and to have it taken from them sucks.

Im glad he brought it up though... CA has always been shifty like this and never really be good about protecting the artists or the community, and def not a sanctuary for many users.

Selfish though? On brads part? pfft.

As someone who has had people cop-out on freelance fees im glad he brought it up. Good artists are rare and well worth the coin. Refusing to pay them is insulting to all of us, no matter the amount.
Even if it was just enough cash to buy a cup of coffee I would have still brought it up.

and this is why we have cghub.
Good on you brad, whatever it takes to get what you are owed. Illustration is a business and when people commit they better be ready. None of this handshakes only stuff.

[Nemome]

We actually can't do anything about it right now.
Even when Jason posts his reply now, a lot of users will be already gone and they won't come back after Jason just posted the reply.

This topic needs a lot of time and I am wondering if CA.O will even regenerate from this another drama.
I don't want to say anything personal against Jason Manley, but perhaps it would really be the best to cut CA.O off TAD and Jason Manley.
But it is his own site, so he needs to say whether he still wants to be the owner of CA.O
And with this I don't mean that he should sell it to any any random dick who offers the most money.
With this I am meaning that he should probably give it to another, trustful, long active user on this site, who will probably bring CA.O slooooowly back into life, with a totally new fresh start, leaving the past persons who caused this behind.
Manley doesn't need to appear never again. He is still a guy that did really much for this site and he is still doing with recent updates.
But perhaps someone else should take "the lead".

Atleast that's what I am thinking right now.
And please guys.
Stop talking about Daggers.
Daggers are daggers and ConceptArt is ConceptArt. Get this into your mind.

[Havok Reed]

Why was it selfish to point out poor and dishonest business practices?
It would be selfish only if he came here and posted that piece here.
Only then would that be selfish and dick-ish and whatever else you want to say.

You are taking it out of perspective. It is another angle to look at it, I already stated my stance on the matter further up. I personally don't think it was selfish.

Im glad he brought it up though... CA has always been shifty like this and never really be good about protecting the artists or the community, and def not a sanctuary for many users.

Selfish though? On brads part? pfft.

What Vengar said, it was his last resort, and I personally don't think it was selfish, just another way to look at it. Its the same way of thinking when, say, a person takes their own life. People will say it is selfish because look how it affects others around them. Then on the other hand there are people who would be like, good riddance to a useless human being. Of course, this is not on the scale of death, I'm just trying to make a point.

As someone who has had people cop-out on freelance fees im glad he brought it up. Good artists are rare and well worth the coin. Refusing to pay them is insulting to all of us, no matter the amount.
Even if it was just enough cash to buy a cup of coffee I would have still brought it up.

I agree, I don't think what he did is wrong.

Again, I have posted my thoughts on this matter earlier on. What I say now is a matter of looking at a problem from more than one angle.

[skullsquid]

Classy...

[Craig D]

edit: Post I was referring to has been removed so I'm taking my comment down.
Neither it or my comment was directly (well, more or less) related to the rest of the thread.

[nofu]

Yeah, I think the crimson daggers thing was initially brought in as a bit of a joke, not to be taken seriously, so I think this should be stopped, even if you think you are being witty. Now it's becoming bad press and dragging it down and even though I don't go there, I think it wrong and unnecessary.

[Alla Primal]

Just a joke, wasn't trying to discredit the forum.

[Izi]

Why get a lawyer and handle it the business way when you can stir up drama on deviantart?

[skullsquid]

So you don't have to pay a lawyer?

[Henchman 21]

hey everyone--

im dan warren and im currently managing the daggers site with dave rapoza and our good old pal agelaos. i just wanna state for the record of anyone here who might be misreading things- anything dave mentioned promoting daggers was a joke hilighting the obvious irony /conflict of interest that he runs a forum somewhere and is talking about the downsides of this one. i cant speak for other members promoting us on here or dropping jpegs of our logo haha, but i just wanted to let everyone know a few things to keep in mind as this goes forward-

i got my start on ca and it helped my career immensely. so did dave, so did half the daggers on our site or more.
anything we say about things being bad or needing to change comes from a place of love because weve been here for the better part of a decade (some more)
and we would love to see a return to how things were pre the 2009 explosion and the resulting endless drama.
i love what ca was and could be again, and i hope it gets there. its a great community with great people.

our forum and community is mainly based on studies and activities. its not as expansive as ca, and its not as commercial as ca. we dont sell things or do things for profit, so theres a limited amount we can offer as a result. if anyone wants to join up, thats great and feel free- but my personal ideal outcome and what i hope to see is a return to what ca was here. our two forums offer very different things for different reasons, and should be allowed to be successful and fufilling side by side as a result. noones talking about killing this one to bolster the other on our end, so please stop being dramatic.

its a shame this site has lost so many of the great people that made the community so exciting. its my sincere hope the people in charge do something (no idea what) to generate their interest in one day returning. a lot of you newer people have no frame of reference for just how amazing this place used to be, and just how much it had to offer. it was beautiful and should be again.

that bein said- im off this thread now. i think everything that needs to be said has been said, so lets wait til any new information comes to light.

best-

[tobbA]

I like this site. I don't think it's the management (whom you basically see really seldom around here anyway) that should dictate whether I stay here or not. And theirs really isn't my business. This is a community, and it's the members that does and allways has made this place what it is.

That said, I do feel a bit iffy about hanging around on a site where the management so obviously abuses their power. I'm not going get into who did what or who's telling the truth. But something's up. That's for sure.

[orionsnebula]

You will come out on top Manley! Thank you for everything, you are a blessing to this world!

[Beeston]

we would love to see a return to how things were pre the 2009 explosion and the resulting endless drama.

Yep. That's best case scenario. I have no idea how to achieve that though. Anyone got any ideas?

[Black Spot]

Go draw?

[Quike Garcia]

Go draw?

Right away

[Beelow]

i never planned on doing business for ca so it doesn't have any meaning and it dosin't relate to me..mosley pro artist and semi pro artist are boycotting this site they have nothing to lose if this ca site shuts down but beginners like me will lose out big time.

No you won't, because these same artists that leave go somewhere else to post. We are all on facebook, myspace, Cghub, cgsociety, deviant art, game artistsan, poly count 3d total, Muddycolors, etc. Take your pick. We are there.

I do think this raise a lot of my concern since I get commissions through the jobs section. If the audience goes, then I must take my leave. Especially if it has as bad of a reputation as this. This the second big one. I've been here a longtime. I hope this gets resolved. I will be over at the cghub and on facebook if your looking. Later gang.

[creeptool]

this situation reminds me of a reality competition tv show like Survivor you see your competitor having trouble you fill bad for them and you wan't to help but if you do your only screwing yourself.

[JeffX99]

*skipping about three pages of angst*

Just wanted to share this thought (ok, two thoughts)...

1. People get fucked over all the time..artists, construction workers, nurses, you name it. Doesn't make it right, just saying life is like that sometimes. Now a history of doing that is problematic of course so it's likely there are real legitimate issues here. Maybe this is how they had to get resolved...Idunno.

2. I've been on the "net" since about 1986, first with a Compuserve address and 48oo baud modems you had to actually call phone numbers with. I've never been involved in any forums before, art or otherwise (excluding facebook if you count that). I think CA is a great resource, I still learn shit every day here (ok, yesterday with Sparth's shape tools info). I'm sure it isn't the hot place full of the young turks it once was, and that's kind of a shame, but it still has some great information and provides a decent place for art oriented discussion, show announcements, etc.

Basically what I'm getting at is if there was a better place I'd be there. To be sure I'll be checking a few other sites but I doubt they hold a candle to the rich diversity and depth of resource CA offers.

Just my two cents as usual.

Edit: At the same time....fauuuhhhhck...it would be nice to find an active, professional community where you weren't bombarded by questions about "Uhm how do I do drawing?".

[NickyBeats]

there are currently 132 users viewing this thread. holy crap.

im too tired to get involved. plus i feel like this is getting more like a trial than a simple lounge thread. i just dont have the legal jargen to keep up.

good luck everyone!

EDIT: i just want to say one thing - its really a shame that artists on here would become so personally involved in this to the point of disregarding old friendships! come on people, lets remember the good times and go paint some sexy nudes.