The Royalty Problem - News: Brad got paid from TAD

[skullsquid]

What did you expect, hah...

[paperX]

Jason...seriously.

[saprissa9]

I bought a lot of tutorials when they were still available. I feel kind of bad. I thought I was helping the artist who was teaching me so much. It also made me think about how the dudes at Massive Black in China are treated (personally and economically) by Mr Manley. From now on we should buy tutorials and DVD's that are sold directly from the artist themselves. I know that TAD and CA are two different things. But I will not get involve with an institution that Mr Manley is involve with. I already had an account at CGHUB. But now I am staying there after this.

[Raymond Luk]

Meh Manley's (not so manly) public statement was so robotic, typical of the business world in cases of serious fraud. x_x

[vineris]

It's worrying and I feel a bit sick to my stomach right now. But I'm going to wait and see how things pan out because I'm very much a proponent of fairness and hearing all sides of every story.

Yeah, I hate to make uninformed judgements, but how can I possibly know what really happened? I can't really contribute anything further to CA until people get paid, though.

If anyone wants to keep in touch, I'm on dA under the same name. PM me for other social sites.

[Velocity Kendall]

Id like to see the proof before I make my mind up.

[Mr.Pryminista]

These are the words of Ron Lemen, the entertainment department instructor at TAD and its worth hearing.

"Brad, I am sorry about this and can honestly say that Vanessa and I knew nothing of this and neither have the other instructors we teach with.

I am going to say this; TAD and CA are tied together by association through an individual.

I'm in charge of the entertainment department and I can honestly say to my knowledge that we do nothing with CA in regards to any business, especially regarding CA merchandise;
TAD is TAD, CA IS CA. We don't mix business together, but we do make announcements there on CA like we do here at DA.

I will also say that Vanessa and I will not be attending CA London. We cannot support wrongful business choices or work in conjunction with anyone who does.

Vanessa and I do nothing but support artists and the artist community as do all of our amazing and giving instructors which is a big reason we joined TAD, to help more than just those in our local community and to surround ourselves with a healthy art community. TAD is and will always be as supportive of artists and students of the arts and I again apologize for any of this ever happening although I am not a part of this mess. And I trust John English implicitly, he will help you. Converse with him."

[Andantonius]

I haven't logged on to CA in ages, but I feel compelled to put forth my thoughts on this.

Though it is absolutely true that there are two sides to every story and we as onlookers don't have solid proof of what's happening, this rings true enough to the things I've seen and experienced for myself that I believe it is an issue.

One point I'd like to make is that I do hope that people will separate this event from TAD as a school. Though TAD has its problems, this is the responsibility of the individual parties involved. I've been through the entire program at TAD and overall have found it to be a highly worthwhile experience, and I feel sorry that John English has to deal with this if it is truly not his fault. This will be yet another unnecessary stain on TAD's record that hopefully people will be able to see past in the future and allow TAD to grow to its full (and formidable) potential.

That said, this whole situation is awful. The art industry is difficult enough with having to deal with low wages, difficult entry level requirements, the absurd demands of producers and directors, and a whole myriad of other things, but we do it because we love our craft. Even though I have no personal connection to Mr. Rigney, I have the utmost empathy for him and will do everything I can to support him and every other artist who may be in this situation (I believe Donato Giancola mentioned going through an almost identical experience with his download, and I'm sure many others have gone through the same).

My condolences go out to anyone who has been shortchanged in these kind of situations.

-Jon Neimeister

[jcpahl]

With all respect to Cryptcrawler, I can't imagine this story is as one-sided as he made it sound. He's pissed, and I'm sure he has a good reason to be. But I think it's a bad idea to arrive at the conclusion that Manley is a con-artist based on one person's pissed off DeviantArt journal.

The bans and deleted threads haven't fostered an atmosphere of trust here, to put it mildly, and there's obviously been a lot of feuding going on behind the scenes that I don't know much about. But I do know that CA made me aware that art was a real job, guided and inspired me while I learned to do it, and eventually helped me become a professional, and my life is pretty cool now because of that. And I have Manley to thank in no small measure; he's driven this site to a large degree. I've never been cheated here, or had anything stolen; it's all been provided free of charge, no strings attached. For my part, I think I at least owe Manley the benefit of the doubt.

[skullsquid]

History has been whitewashed so many times, it's sad to see apologists still in 2013.

[Henchman 21]

for everyone using the this cant be so one sided approach to the problem, brad did lay out everything on his end of it in pretty specific detail. hes a great guy and a very honest freelancer who has nothing against him in the community. until jason or the people in charge at tad do the same and explain what parts of brads statement arent true and why, it seems to me that their non response is one of 2 things- a way to brush off something that can only be shameful, or a dismissive pr move to try and make this go away. neither party has expressed any kind of actual response to the specific things brad laid out in his letter yet, and in respect to the positions they hold in the community, thats very disappointing.

brad states very openly and clearly in his letter that he had ongoing emails with the faculty in charge of tad as well as jason for months and months at a time. both parties have claimed they had 'no idea!' this was going on and are so very sorry for his inconvenience. neither has denied being party to the ongoing emails- most likely because they in fact were.

if theres 2 sides of the story, i invite them to please give us the other half (out of respect to the community that has reacted so seriously about this, if nothing else). until that happens I, and im sure most of you, kinda have to side with brad- not only because it feels right, but because there really isnt a second option yet.


and i mean come on- hes brad.

[Sentinel.]

Anything you learned on CA, you owe to the community that thrived here, not Jason. He may have provided the URL, but the people made it what it once was. Look at the corpse this place has become without them. I also realized that I could make a living doing art because of this site, and gained knowledge and formed friendships that are helping me achieve that goal, but it is my hard work and the hard work of my fellow artists that got us there, not that egomaniac. One man cannot build an empire alone.

Call it bad blood, call it whatever you want, that doesn't mean it's not true. And if you can turn away from this information, especially with the precedent that has already been set, and make excuses for him because you think you owe him, not because he's in the right, that is a huge part of the problem.

This place has been razed to the ground too many times. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Main Loop]

But I think it's a bad idea to arrive at the conclusion that Manley is a con-artist based on one person's pissed off DeviantArt journal.

This is NOT just because of one person's "pissed off Deviantart journal." This is just one more thing on top of a lot of terrible shit that has piled up over the years. It's too bad that you don't know all of the stories, but it's mostly because it was erased or censored from this site.

[jcpahl]

History has been whitewashed so many times, it's sad to see apologists still in 2013.

Cryptcrawler's journal entry is less than 8 hours old as of this writing. If holding off boarding the hate train for a little while makes me an 'apologist,' I'm cool with that.

Anything you learned on CA, you owe to the community that thrived here, not Jason.

I learned a shit-ton just reading Manley's old posts when I was starting out. He's made some great inspirational speeches, which have definitely helped me. He was a major force in bringing the artists together that made this site what it was. And he ran the site, which must take work, and paid for the hosting. He's been a major force behind this place; I don't think anyone can honestly deny that.

This is NOT just because of one person's "pissed off Deviantart journal." This is just one more thing on top of a lot of terrible shit that has piled up over the years. It's too bad that you don't know all of the stories, but it's mostly because it was erased or censored from this site.

I know quite a few of them. I've been as saddened as anyone at the direction this site has been going. But I haven't been personally involved or privy to any details, so I feel morally obligated not to make conclusions about anyone's personal character.

[Ryuartyi]

The news of this shouldn't come to me as a surprise, but I was certainly caught off guard. The CA forums are what made me want to pursue a career in art in the first place. It has been years since I had posted anything to the sketchbook forums, and for my 24th birthday I wanted to start anew. I wanted to show what I had done under some of Jason Manley's instruction and those of the teachers in TAD.

After the news of today, that will not be the case. I love the CA community and how everyone strives to become professionals in such a harsh entertainment industry environment. Unfortunately, I cannot allow myself to continue on with a website run by someone who would flagrantly go against everything that he had built and causes the same problems to amazing artists who believed that this was a safe haven. After the outburst of December 2009 and Manley's statements about everyone's lack of participation for an expensive paid meeting while others had legitimate reasons not to attend, the future was written in stone.

I sincerely hope that everyone finds a new place to build a community under someone who will be transparent and honest about his and his company's treatment and interactions with artists. I wish everyone luck, and I will not see anyone in London for the event, but I may see you on CGHub or Crimson Daggers to be brief.

- Bradley Dimock

[Deadlyhazard]

Yeah...I wouldn't give this a 'benefit of the doubt' in regards to CA.org's position. In the past, we have witnessed such scumbaggery and all of the censorship brought along with it. If y'all have any respect for yourselves, you should probably haul ass to other social media sites besides this one. It's not a good idea to support someone who doesn't support you.

[Main Loop]

I know quite a few of them, and I've been as saddened as anyone at the direction this site has been going. But I haven't been personally involved or privy to any details, so I don't think it would be right for me to write Manley off as a con-artist.

I haven't been affected financially, personally, either, but I have enough friends who have been. So you must not have heard from the right people or else you might think differently.

[Kamber Parrk]

Wow. Seems like several mods have folded their tents.

Really will change the character of the site if that is permanent!

So, if the site winks out for a while, as in previous drama, think I'll hang out at Gurney Journey, maybe resurrect my old CGhub presence. . .

[Sigh, gonna be hard to pick political fights with potheads over in the Wet Canvas lounge. . .]

[HarbingerofIllRepute]

I don't know what to say.
It's been nice knowing you guys, even though the opposite might not be true.
I've seen many great things and met even greater people, and I feel compelled to say that I have no regrets.
Coming back here despite being publicly humiliated and crucified 3 years ago was probably the best thing I've ever done.

Thank you for that opportunity, Jason.
Even bigger thanks to the community.

[Raoul Duke]

Giving credit where it's due I can't say I don't appreciate what Manly has done. The community here is beautiful. Always has been and probably always will be. It's pretty much the foundation of what concept art is today. It sets an example of what we stand for UNFORTUNATELY. The business model so far has been "artists will pay anything to improve or else" and now "You don't have to pay him he's just a fucking artist". This is the example being set.

Everybody seems to walk away from Jason with a sore butthole. Starting with MB now TAD and next there is going to be an art sweatshop riot in some country with no labor standards. It's a continuing pattern.

It says something when it's too much for Elwell to stick around. He has proven to know when there's something rotting in Denmark.

[Jmob]

Here I come crimson daggers forum. Woooooooooooo. gogogoogogogogogogogoooooOO!

[Deadlyhazard]

I still can't find Elwell's post on FB D:. I'd be shocked if he actually left. Someone SS it.

edit: Saw it. Welp, that's probably the nail in the coffin.

[Stuart DeViva]

Well, this is quite unfortunate. While I'm fairly quiet here, for me this place...like for so many others is the origin of my hopes as an artist. I'm not in the industry, yet the path is so clear I cannot help but be sure of exactly where I'm going. This is in large part due to the day I was introduced to Conceptart.org.
A big thanks to all of you guys! I hope to see you around making art and living life!

[Sentinel.]

My post in the workshop thread was deleted. Looks like the censorship has begun.

[Kiera]

Eh, makes me feel sick.
There was unfair stuff going on before this, but somehow I could ignore it better.
Guess I'll go and take my hobby of writing absurdly long critque and posting an occassional picture somewhere else.




Edit:
I don't actually care what exactly happened or didn't happen, who was right, who wasn't.
The time I stayed here there was often times a conflict in the background, involving Jason, on a regular basis.
This is a sign that there's something weird going on behind the scenes.

I'm also chilling out at two other, far bigger communities which also have professional artists employed.
I'm following some writers and artists from these sites on their own blogs/tumblrs/websites.
I've never read that those artists had similair conflicts with their employer, on such a regular basis as people who complain here on Conceptart.
Whatever it is, artists should be payed, a lot of conflicts can be solved that there isn't someone who feels hurt or betrayed.

Most of the people here are cool, there are a lot of quality posters, I really like the community.
But I feel more and more uncomfortable to contribute to a place where there's constant conflict between different parties or
where artists feel mistreated, on a regular basis.

[Cerasela]

i just woke up my head already hurts, i dont know what to say. ;(

[thanoss]

Jesus christ the people whining and bitching here. And telling everyone to go to cghub. Has anyone even bloody used cghub's forums? Its utter shite there are maybe one or 2 people posting a freaking day, there is no bloody community at all. There is no conversation or debate like there is here. People post image in the hopes on getting on the front page and nothing bloody more. If you dont like this site then piss off its as simple as that. Even if I whine about the people posting ridiculous questions here on a daily basis, I would rather have that than some shite zombie dead site like CGHUB. I dont know the ins and outs of jason manleys arrangement's with cryptcrawler, nor do I give a fuck. This site is bloody awesome, all the people generally using this site are awesome, He try's to do the best for the community and if some people can't see that , then its better they piss of to CGHUB or any other dead forum. People telling other people to not attend the London workshop are a bloody joke, and they really need to check themselves. Jason has probably spent thousands of dollars trying to organise an event where alot of the worlds top art directors, and artists gather in one place to in form and educate other artists, and all others here can do do is fucking bitch and tell people not attend. Well piss of then and , I hope you fuckers dont use this site again, but I bet you will.

Everyone knows this place needs changes, but lets not go over the fucking top, and start demanding others buy this site, and asking people not to sue it, and not to attend workshops. The last time this happened was on VFXTALK.COM. It was one of the most widely used vfX forums on the internet at the time with alot of industry professionals and ametuer artists using it. An argument in sued, one thing led to another, changes were demanded, people boycotted etc etc. Then people got their way new owners and management were bought in, and guess what? The site went from one of the most active helpful sites, to the most dead site now there is. Once a place of greta information, is now a dead duck. Be careful for what you wish for, because if you think this place is shite or dead now.

PEOPLE NEED TO GET A FRIGGING GRIP!!!!!

[rem92]

I still can't find Elwell's post on FB D:. I'd be shocked if he actually left. Someone SS it.

edit: Saw it. Welp, that's probably the nail in the coffin.

I couldn't find it, and I'm interested to know what he had to say, mind sharing it here ?

[Velocity Kendall]

So basically its a personal vendetta over a few hundred bucks aired in public, which had nothing to do with 99.999% of us on the site, and with frankly not a shred of proof and nothing more than a blog post to back these claims of stealing from artists.

Thats worth wrecking the London thing, and killing CA?? Cos if artists are afraid to go to the London event or be called traitors, then what pays for CA servers, and everyone's sketchbooks?

Nice one.

[Main Loop]

Just saw this on my facebook feed. Clochette also did a video and wasn't paid properly. I'm posting to show people that this is not an isolated incident. It's been happening for a long time, and with multiple people.

"That sounds way too familiar.
I too did a tutorial video with ConceptArt / The Art Department, a few years ago. Thank you to all the people who bought it, but I'm sorry to say, if I had the choice I wouldn't do it anymore. The only royalties I got, I had to ask and ask and fight to get them. Now I had no answers or money at all since over a year and a half. It doesn't feel good when you have to beg for what you deserve, you know. And the whole thing is so transparent that you can't even be sure of what they own you anyway. Recently the video is no longer sold on the Art Department website, with no notification of any kind to let me know. So at least I assume they're no longer making money from it. But who knows how much they stole from the artists.

It's not my habit to reveal issues like that publicly, but after all, everyone deserves to know the truth. And I know Brad and I are NOT the only ones at all."