Iris - take II

[Black Spot]

Restarted the figure from scratch. Foot isn't done and the lighting still needs to be worked on more. Time to kick me some more butt hurt.

[Giacomo]

That is looking better in all respects than your last version. Progress!

I suppose my initial impression is that her pose and facial expression feels awkward, like she's been uncomfortably stuffed in amongst all the vegetation and she's definitely not happy about it. If that was not your intention, you might want to consider other poses and compositions that seem less cramped.

[Star Eater]

Still not pleased with that hand on the leg, sorry; Particularly the pinky and length/size of the area where the hand and the wrist meet.

[Aceoko]

Her left thigh looks broken, the contours of the fabric look like it is lay down flat above her knee, but then it goes up suddenly, like her thigh has been snapped. Maybe push the leg up. PO so you can see what I mean. I think her face is also abit 'harsh', especially her nose but that may be due to that you just haven't finished rendering.

[Black Spot]

Actually, I think I've painted both hands a bit big. I'll move the hand on the leg down - it does look uncomfortable atm. The skirt isn't finished. Anything else?

[Black Spot]

Still haven't finished the skirt, but the hands are better - I hope. Next is to get the lighting sorted out.

[Giacomo]

The lighting on that photo is so dim I can't really tell whether the hands are working or not. You might want to shoot it under better lighting conditions (i.e., outdoors in indirect sunlight.)

[Black Spot]

Bit difficult when I work in daylight hours and paint at night & the weekends. Earlier shot I took that's a bit too light.

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

Whoo, looking good! Great to see it up and running again. You're a lot more patient than I, going by the surroundings.

It's hard to say for sure, since the photos are making it hard to make out the values properly, but it looks like the skirt is standing out a bit much where it meets her right thigh. This is partly because of the uniformly sharp edge outlining the cloth, which you may want to get some variation into, although it depends on what you're going for. Mainly though, it looks too light where it hugs her thigh and in her lap. It's basically top-lit, but on the leg and the rest of the figure you have the light coming in from the top-left. The drapery should show the underlying form, so make sure it follows the larger lighting scheme.

The rest of it looks like it's coming along very well! Looking forward to updates.

Edit: Also, her left knee is going to be an absolute beast. That's a very hard position to get right, with all the subtleties of construction and foreshortening. Certainly gets me every time I've tried it. So, when you get to it, make sure you've got as much freaking reference as you can get your hands on!

[drd]

Are you able to share the reference you're using?

[Black Spot]

There are a few in the previous thread before the art bun fight http://conceptart.org/forums/critiqu...4764-iris.html, but I've been using the below one. Difficult when she's wearing leggings - I changed the hands

[Giacomo]

Not to be harsh, but you really really really need to shoot better reference photos. Outdoors, in daylight (hopefully indirect daylight so the highlights don't blow out), wearing something at least approximately like the clothing the figure in the painting will be wearing (having your model leave her socks on when you intend to paint her feet bare has to set some record for "not getting the concept.") Also, don't change the hands-- keep shooting new reference until you have something you can easily work with.

Seriously. If you want to paint realistic human figures (and you don't have the option of hiring a live model who can pose for hours on end), taking good reference photos is a MUST.

[EricaZann]

First off...
Three cheers for the theme! I know, I know... the industry wants mostly monsters and muscle men;
but I for one would love to see more beauty and less horror. Okay now that I have that out of my system...

As I was reading this thread and your previous Iris thread the dominant issue for me (outside of the anatomy
critiques that have already been posted by others) is that the piece feels like a composite of ideas rather
than a composition for an idea.

For example her right hand (the one on the leg) communicates sensuality/seduction, while her left hand seems
to be a gesture for emphasizing a verbal point. The face is improving, softening, becoming more inviting than
it was in the first painting. I also like that you focused more on the Iris flowers and eliminated the daisies.
I'm interested to see how things progress when the lighting and color start to be brought in.

When I was just goofing around with the over painting to see how her face would look if the shadows were
softened I remembered a post I came across before I joined. If you can find it there is a WIP thread for a
painting of a black dogs head. Near the end, a first time poster made a huge and brilliant commentary on the
pitfalls of reworking compositions by focusing only on the details. Working in micro areas often times reveals
flaws in other micro areas and can continue indefinitely (maybe relevant?), definitely a smart read if you can
find it.

...Also, Giacomo's point is right on imo.

[Candra H]

Hm, everyone has already said what I was thinking. Giacomo's last post is spot on for sure, thought for some reason, your ref photos arent showing up on my browser. But even just in theory, his comments and observations are excellent, as well as Erica's thoughts re this looking more like a composite than a composition.

I'm really no expert on humans yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but what stands out most to me is the awkwardness of her hands, legs, feet and head position. They all look like the underlying structure isnt there, or is off kilter which is then throwing everything else off too. What about constructing the figure away from refs first, to get an idea of how things join and sit in relation to each other, then going back and taking good reference shots based on that?

Anyway, just a thought. And for what it's worth, this one is looking much better than the earlier versions so you're definitely moving in the right direction.

[Velocity Kendall]

Exellent crits so far, heres a quick overlay showing where things are drifting a little

[JeffX99]

In addition to other observations I have a couple things to add...

1. Lose or reposition the amphora/jug - it's just completely separate right now and is oddly sitting on the edge of the image and apparently on the only flat surface (but we can't see it). Is it in the scene for a reason? Some allegory or important implement of the goddess? If it is I would incorporate it as such.

2. Push yourself to define a sense of light - right now there is no feeling of light, direction, etc. so it lacks any sense of realism. Giacomo's advice on reference shots will really help with this aspect. At this stage you could push it just by doing some small thumbnail studies to see what you can do with the light. Gurney's "Imaginitive Realism" is so good when it comes to demonstrating how important value studies and good reference are.

3. For hands I would recommend a good look at some Mucha - his drawings in particular. Not to mention any of teh great pinup guys - Elvgren, Vargas, Petty. One of the things that struck me most at a recent Golden Age illustration show was how those guys could say so much with so little when painting hands, faces and hair.

4. Nose feels a bit long, large and severe.

Anyway, hope that helps - keep at it...don't skip those fundamentals!

[FootstepsBeckon]

i need another update black spot I NEED IT NOW.

[Stoat]

A general observation about painting (and drawing) stuff, but it applies especially to long, thin, cylindrical objects like arms and legs. If your strokes follow down the object the long way, it can make the object look stringy and flat. If you stroke across the object the short way, it builds volume and three-dimensionality. As usual for pretty much anything I say, ever, you can no doubt find excellent pieces of artwork that violate this 'rule', but anyhow...

[Black Spot]

This is only the sketch, hopefully an update will come tomorrow. I've been sorting out the problems from the earlier crits.

[Black Spot]

She's a lot bluer than shown here - Smurfette. I haven't moved the pot, it is an allegory, but it will not be so dominant. Not have I corrected the foot yet. I always planned to have the lighting a lot more dramatic than at the beginning and it's still not pushed as far as it will go. The fingers in the leg need to be a bit longer. Put a close up in too.

[Giacomo]

You really need to take a closer look at the relative values created by light hitting her head. Right now her eyes look like she's tripping on acid and also has a case of Ocular Luminosity Syndrome....the whites of her eyes should be darker, the iris of her eye needs to be darker in relation to the pupil, and the shadows cast by her brow and upper eyelid need to match what you've established in the rest of the face. JPEG below.

Also, you're not making it any easier for yourself by inventing light sources that don't appear in your reference photo. What I said earlier about re-shooting your reference (again) still holds.

[Black Spot]

I know. I'm going to scrub the face out and put it away for a while. No more updates. Sorry, but thanks for all the crits.