Perspective Puzzles

[I STRaY I]

Oh nice, had I studied #17 first. I'd have been the better for it. It covers station point perfectly. As do the following posts. It's nice that your choosing the right stuff to share. Also, to think I was doing anything related to "trigonometric" is laughable. If so, no doubt without knowing it(on accident). I found a Youtube video that seemed to explain it to me. Mainly by measure of units, that if the horizon was the eye line, at 5 feet tall, then using 5 inches for example would represent the horizon to ground line, then the multiplying came in. Clearly I'm new to this, right? haha.

[MrFrenik]

Andrew, to answer your first question, yes the VP's can be anywhere. Within a scene, you can have an infinite amount of vanishing points, a set for each object with its own orientation. Don't let this confuse/frustrate you though. Just know that when you rotate an object, its VP's will change.

I went ahead and did some more constructions to answer your other questions. The first one was about how to make sure the lines A and B were the same length in your drawing. Without getting into measured perspective, the best way to do this is to have a unit of measurement that's reliable in perspective. The cube works perfectly for this. So you'd have to set up a perspective grid based on a cube (either constructed as I have here or estimated if you're confident enough with it) and then draw ontop of this.

I also roughed out a quick cast/core shadow construction for the sphere. It gets kinda messy, so let me know if anything needs clarifying.

[MrFrenik]

Oh nice, had I studied #17 first. I'd have been the better for it. It covers station point perfectly. As do the following posts. It's nice that your choosing the right stuff to share. Also, to think I was doing anything related to "trigonometric" is laughable. If so, no doubt without knowing it(on accident). I found a Youtube video that seemed to explain it to me. Mainly by measure of units, that if the horizon was the eye line, at 5 feet tall, then using 5 inches for example would represent the horizon to ground line, then the multiplying came in. Clearly I'm new to this, right? haha.

I'd be interested in checking out that video, Stray. And I just found the section on handprint that was discussing trig ratios, so I figured that's where you got it from. And don't worry, there's still so much I have to learn that it makes my balls hurt.

[MrFrenik]

Aaaand some blocky geo-cars to finish out the night.

[Care]

thanks frenik, some great posts here, o yea so there was a book i think it was norling that explained how transfer from plan and elevation to perspec view. It might be outdated tho i think that book was old. anyways i was wondering, do u know of any ellipse guides that have all the degrees on them? never found one

[I STRaY I]

haha perspective is like forever study, it's intimidating for sure. Anyways, Nice updates man, plenty of puzzles for the weekend! I put a link to that video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHIDpH1DvWg

@ care, Norling is old as shit. But does touch on plan view in chapter 20. I haven't quite gotten there but it's brief, and having a quick glance it does appear to be different then the stuff posted here. At least as far as the illustration diagrams go. It does discuss elevation as well.

[I STRaY I]

Finished these, sorry for not using spoilers. The first was the most difficult. However, I cheated and used the same setup of 45's to save time. Did change the last one up a bit for added challenge. Good exercise!

[MrFrenik]

thanks frenik, some great posts here, o yea so there was a book i think it was norling that explained how transfer from plan and elevation to perspec view. It might be outdated tho i think that book was old. anyways i was wondering, do u know of any ellipse guides that have all the degrees on them? never found one

I've had the same problem when either looking online or going to an art supply store to buy something (which is a waste of money; buy online, people!). I don't think they exist, sadly, so you'll need to get different templates for different degrees and sizes.

haha perspective is like forever study, it's intimidating for sure. Anyways, Nice updates man, plenty of puzzles for the weekend! I put a link to that video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHIDpH1DvWg

@ care, Norling is old as shit. But does touch on plan view in chapter 20. I haven't quite gotten there but it's brief, and having a quick glance it does appear to be different then the stuff posted here. At least as far as the illustration diagrams go. It does discuss elevation as well.

As soon as I watched the vids, I realized that I had already subscribed to this guy like a YEAR ago and just haven't watched through his stuff thoroughly enough, so I did that yesterday. 1.73 is used as scale measurement in order to find the distance between your ground line and station point; multiply 1.73 by your distance on paper between the ground line and horizon line and that will give you your station point. All of this works because of the angles set up between these points in space forming a right triangle (station point to ground line, ground line to horizon line, horizon line back to person's "head" or top of station point). This is can be quite helpful if you're looking for a completely realistic method of establishing scale, which if you're doing architecture and the like, you most likely would be. I'll draw up a diagram of this for clarity later on.

Unfortunately I don't have Norling, but while it is old, I'm always hesitant to say that something old doesn't have its merits. Often it's quite the opposite, in fact, and I find much more valuable information from older texts than some newer ones try and give. If you guys would like to share the method that Norling uses for plans/elevations drafting or measured perspectives, I, as well as others I'm sure, would love to see it.

And Stray, great job on the exercises! I'm glad you guys are finding them useful/fun to do. That's the idea behind this thread anyway! I'll post more later on today.

[I STRaY I]

Thanks MrFrenik, but fun? I don't know. Easy way to kill a high for sure, but so crucial to learn and practice these exercises! And thanks for your participation. I wish more were here to participate, but lets be real. Who the hell loves this stuff? I can see why many steer clear, which is precisely why I want to learn it, of course after the main beneficial reasons.

Anyways, yeah those vids the guy puts together are pretty good actually. I liked the 1.73 method. Have not found out if it applies to all points or just 1 point, but I'm on my way. But it seemed to me to be exactly what I wanted to know. Because I want to get away from arbitrary. Not that I think arbitrary is stupid, In fact I like it, but just don't want to abuse it and would rather have good insight into how to project arbitrary better. If that makes sense? So, if I'm going to be practicing mechanical drawing like this, I want it to be exact as I can get it. And even in these last exercises, I found that the ground line was arbitrary, and so the rear of the shape seemed to be as well technically. The 1.73 method seems to be as close to an exact method (that I could understand). Of course, what has occurred to me, is that (in one point at least in setting up HL to GL, the height of the eye line is of course arbitrary, unless of course you break out a measuring tape and measure from ground to eyeballs, then from eye balls to object. But thats not going to happen. haha. So anyways.

Also, you are right about the age of Norling. It's not like I meant that it lost validity due to aging, I was just agreeing it's old, as in publish date. I guess it's not that it's old that sucks, and it doesn't suck anyways. It's just that it's titled "Perspective Made Easy". So it doesn't really seem to go in depth as to why some things are done some ways, mainly more technical stuff and maybe it just doesn't have enough applicable examples for me. Or likely, I'm just not the most brainy when it comes to mathematical, linear, and reading all at once. But I'm trying. For instance, I did some work from the "Artitects method" or Plan stuff. And while I can't explain it due to lack of confidence. I notice that it's different, duh. And somethings just aren't explained in the book. For instance you see in the two point "H" for height. It makes no mention but I'm assuming the length of this line as applied below is the height. Also the same in one point from extensions to GL, added to find top of box. Sorry, poor explanation I know. But look at it, I'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about. And obviously, in this method for 2 point, the Center measurement line is not used, instead the height line is for elevation to VP. But it works, I think. Like everything just have to burn it into the ol brainmeat(at a snails pace).
Anyways, I hope you can forgive me blatant dumbness if it appears some things are just beyond my intelligence. But like I said, hopefully the effort transalates to a better understanding with time and practice, which I'm sure of(sort of).As always, please let me know if you see anything wrong!

[MrFrenik]

This is interesting. Was the exercise saying that you could use this "H" line as your Vertical Measuring line? It is touching the GL, after all.

[I STRaY I]

Yeah, as far as I can see. From text: Extend AB until it meets P.P at A"(not written) but where it meets P.P. From A" draw a line parallel to C.V.R. and extend it to the ground line. We can now measure the true height of the brick from Ground Line to H on this line. We now have the height of the brick measured on the elevation of the Picture Plane. If we carry this upright line to the LVP we have a wall in perspective the height of the brick. The end of the brick forms part of this wall, now to locate it. We know that the artist sees line AB as line A'B' on the P.P. We now project A'B' down to the wall we have drawn in perspective. In this manner we cut of the part of the wall that is the end of the brick.

So already I see that I failed at one thing in the 2 point, which is that I didn't properly place the second eye. Which is the same distance from H.L. as eye one is from P.P. Fixed here:

[MrFrenik]

Thinking about it, this makes sense, as it's at the GL and parallel to our CVR, so it shouldn't matter where it's placed horizontally. Thanks for the info, Stray!

[MrFrenik]

Not much tonight; just a WIP of the interior of my living/dining room.

[GrayPersona]

wow this is amazing I havent logged for a week and the amount of post triplled,need to spend some time and read them all.
here are some of my perspective studies so as not to make this a spam.

[MrFrenik]

Awesome stuff, Gray!

[MrFrenik]

Horse construction studies

[Joe777k7]

Hey guys!! This thread has taken off!!!! Im really proud of all of you!! There is alot i need to study that you guys posted. I been absent due to i have to fill out applications all last week hahahah got to get a parttime job, but just like 2 to 3 days a week so no biggie. Wanted to contribute some stuff here I recommend everyone try this, take a ref then draw it from a different angle. Make sure you map it out as well so you can draw it from different angles as well. Then also i posted some other random stuff i did related to perspective, hopefully some of this helps, ill tyr to do some more tutorilas soon :0 keep up the awesome work!



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[GrayPersona]

great studies mr frenik and joe I will try to do some more exercises from this thread this week.
meanwhile a couple of loomis studies and a manikin mirrored to the four winds :>

[MrFrenik]

Awesome stuff, guys! You're making me feel lazy, which is great, ha. So in case you don't follow Scott Robertson on Youtube, he's just recently released a video describing his "Rendering Reflective Surfaces" course on Imagination.com, which is available for self-study. I'm most likely going to sign up for this, and if anyone else is interested, I'd suggest checking it out too.

[Joe777k7]

Man i wish i could do those Scott Roberston classes, but im broke hahahahaha
Here's a second tutorial!!!! Hopefully it helps some!

[I STRaY I]

Hey everyone, just wanted to give the thread a bump. Joe your stuff is crazy cool and Gray(if I can?) Nice stuff with the figure drawings in perspective. There's really a lot here to check out. And I'm mostly looking forward to that vehicle one. #47. So.. Not much of a puzzle for you perspective stud muffins, but it's brain science for me. So some incline with 2 horizon lines. I stopped on the faded stuff, will be easier to eyeball that. It does feel off somehow, I don't expect anyone to proof it, but if off the top you see whats up let me know.

[MrFrenik]

Sorry for not posting anything in this thread as of late; I've been busy with trying to work on portfolio stuff and studying my ass off with other areas, so strict perspective stuff had to take a backseat for a bit. But just know that I'm still active and watching over this thing, so keep posting anything you might have that could be of use to other people here.

[GrayPersona]

i am doing exercises from this thread once in a while just didnt post because they are not that good.
but here is something from joes tutorial.

[Joe777k7]

Cool work Gray! Just keep pushing it!
We need some more activity on here!!!! hahaha
Im thinking of doing some more tutorials. Ill see when i can do some

[MrFrenik]

Had some down time/bored time tonight, so I came up with a challenge for anyone interested: design your avatar name in perspective! Quick sketch to show what I mean, and it's quite crude, so I'm sure you guys can do much better with some time put into your constructions. Bonus points for anyone who does a cast shadow construction too Bonus BONUS points for anyone who uses accurate unit measurements to design with (multiplying units). Have fun!

[iLotus]

Really love your perspective observation skills, really looking forward to your development.

[GrayPersona]

just some cars shapes...might do mrfreniks challenge later this week.

[MrFrenik]

Cool drawthroughs, Gray. I definitely need to hit up some vehicle designs sooner than later. I looked through a few of Paul Richard's tuts and did some constructions based on those. Fun shit, especially the boolean operations!