tablets/pcs for drawing

[andya147]

at this moment in time i think ,and a lot of people may disagree but the best value for money and it is a great tablet is the samsung slate 7 ..some really good bargains ...all these tabs with 11.6 and 10.6 inch screens with 1080 res to me is really bad in the long run for your eyes ...samsung slate is the one i would get until we see something maybe next year that will really be different and unique

[Eelybot]

Did everyone see that Wacom is planning to release their own tablet? Info is scarce, but it sounds kinda exciting...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/01/w...creative-uses/

[Griffonnage]

Yeah I saw the other thread, but honestly I will wait they announce size, ram power, cpu or even if it's a all-in-one PC or not Because if they just are teasing for the lenovo mobile wifi screen that come this summer too or something similar (wifi cintiq with multi touch like the 24hd multi touch) I would be really disapointed.
The last thing that keep me not-too-exited is the price, Wacom is not know to do cheap devices. Hope I will be wrong, future will tell us !

[andya147]

I think the ipen 2 looks interesting http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-imac-and-more ..as you say Wacom price will be high ..and all the companys in a way work together .imagine if Wacom brought out the most amazing tab in the world .all the other companys wouldn't be happy ....

[LN824]

Based on andya147's glowing reviews, I've decided to return my Surface Pro, and go with the Lenovo x230t. I put in an order today. Andya147, would you recommend going with the Gorilla glass, or the normal 5 point touch screen? Is there anything I should know about this tablet prior to getting it?

[andya147]

hi LN824 great choice ..the first thing I would do is take the standard hard disk out and get an ssd ..Samsung 256 830 or the new pro version called the 840 pro ..the 840pro will give you more battery life than the 830 but both are great ssd s..the next thing is Corsair Vengeance 16GB ...then another thing I would get but this is a personal thing a 2 button stylus ..fugitsu do a good one ..I would without question go for touch and pen screen ...touch to me is so handy to have ..I can use my hand to hold stylus and use my fingers to zoom in on a part of the screen ..also get a screen protector ...any info on ram screen protector just message me and im more than willing to help ....when you calibrate the screen for pen make sure you are on the angle you are goin to draw with and you will get good calibration ......I would if I had the choice go for the i5 as there isn't much difference to the i7 for most users...also standard 4gb and say 500gb hard disk ..if you have the cash the ssd and 16gb will make this thing fly ..you wont be disappointed ...if you have any other questions feel free to ask...one more thing is I would get the backlit keyboard also .

[LN824]

That's great advice andya147. I'm looking forward to getting my tablet. I'm pricing ram and a SSD already. I was trying to hold out for the Helix, but I'm sure I wont be disappointed with the x230t.

One question on the SSD. Did you partition your drive with a dedicated scratch drive partition for photoshop, or did you leave the drive as is?

Also, I don't see many screen protectors on the market, which one do you use?

I'm sorry to hijack a thread with my questions, is there a way to PM you andya147?

[andya147]

with the ssd what I did was just take the drive that came with it out and put the ssd in and installed windows 7..im not keen on win 8 till all bugs are ironed out ....the screen protector that I got was this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3905100991...140%26_rdc%3D1 its working well with touch and pen ...I think if I was going to get another I would get a custom made one from this company http://www.photodon.com/mm5/merchant...w=&range_high=

I would buy the one in the first link because it is cheap but very good and then if your happy keep it if not maybe go for the photodon one but measure your screen and decide were you want the protector ..I like it goin to the edge ..other people will be different its a personal choice ..

ive realised that once you have used a 12.5 inch screen or a 13.3 its hard to go back to 11.6 ..I just hope this year Wacom bring the tablet out with a big screen ..I feel this wont happen though because if they did that they would take the lime light away from all the other manufactures ...say they brought a 13.3 or 12.1 with touch and there own Wacom ..no would would buy anything else..it will be either 10.6 or 11.6 so I for one wont be buying ..maybe I will be wrong but I know how all these companys work ..and one word ..profit

[Griffonnage]

It's okay to continue here imo, the question you ask and the answers you get can be all usefull for other people.
In my opinion, it's still a forum, if someone is bothered he or she will say something.
"Silence gives consent"

I agree with Andya147, Wacom will not release something with a bigger screen, not with windows at least. That would be risky. Wacom do good digitizer but don't have the necessary partners like Intel and co to create a full computer at low cost AND if they do it, that would walk on the others market part. Fujitsu and Lenovo rely a lot on the wacom digitizer, that would be a war letter for them ^^
Microsoft want so badly to get into the tablet market, another challenger, even if it targets a really specific category of people, would no be appreciated (look at how Microsoft prevented Wacom to list the Surface Pro as a Wacom compatible device for the Feel pen...).
My better hope come from a partnership between Samsung and Wacom. Samsung can release a device for artist, the "note" serie is already done in that way and they have the shoulders to try it.

[technokill]

So what do you say guys, is there a "must buy" tablet right now or better wait more?

[Griffonnage]

I think there are some good tablet and convertible but that will depend on your needs. The "perfect device" isn't still here...

[technokill]

If im looking for portability, is there any advantage of convertibles over tablets?

[Griffonnage]

Convertibles are better for power. They have more RAM, slightly better core and a liiiiittle more screen size (they are often 12 -13.3 inches, tablets actualy are 10-11.6 inch with some exception 12 inches). If you plan on doing serious work, it's better to consider a convertible. They are not "that" big, it's okay to travel with one in your bag, but it's true they will not fit in a purse for exemple and can't be hold with one hand. You can add extra battery on them so battery life can be managed easily.

If it's for portability, tablets are fine and really slim these days, super easy to carry.
But again you have to do a choice between the atom core that will give you good battery life (arround 7-8hours) but are really not powerfull and the i5 core that will have better power process but less battery life (4-5 hours). With serious work on them, you can cut one more hour.

If it's only for sketching an android or an atom tablet is fine. If you plan to do more serious work or some 3D, consider the i5 core.
The old generation i5 core tablet (ep 121 and samsung 7 slate) are still good but they have a poor battery (arround 1h-2h autonomy while working :/) The current generation (microsoft surface pro and samsung ativ pro) have a better battery life (4-5h while working according to the review) but some issues. For exemple, the surface pro have no drivers for wintab softwares so Photoshop do not have any pressure information from the stylus... Artrage and sketchbook do not use the wintab drivers so these one will work fine, but if you plan on using photoshop you will have to wait.

I forgot to mention the dell 11, but it have a keyboard attached to the screen and is N-trig technology, but it's still a good alternative too.

As I said, nothing perfect so far...

[LN824]

I hear that Fijitsu makes good 2 button digitizers. Is there a specific model that is better than the others?

[technokill]

Convertibles are better for power. They have more RAM, slightly better core and a liiiiittle more screen size (they are often 12 -13.3 inches, tablets actualy are 10-11.6 inch with some exception 12 inches). If you plan on doing serious work, it's better to consider a convertible. They are not "that" big, it's okay to travel with one in your bag, but it's true they will not fit in a purse for exemple and can't be hold with one hand. You can add extra battery on them so battery life can be managed easily.

If it's for portability, tablets are fine and really slim these days, super easy to carry.
But again you have to do a choice between the atom core that will give you good battery life (arround 7-8hours) but are really not powerfull and the i5 core that will have better power process but less battery life (4-5 hours). With serious work on them, you can cut one more hour.

If it's only for sketching an android or an atom tablet is fine. If you plan to do more serious work or some 3D, consider the i5 core.
The old generation i5 core tablet (ep 121 and samsung 7 slate) are still good but they have a poor battery (arround 1h-2h autonomy while working :/) The current generation (microsoft surface pro and samsung ativ pro) have a better battery life (4-5h while working according to the review) but some issues. For exemple, the surface pro have no drivers for wintab softwares so Photoshop do not have any pressure information from the stylus... Artrage and sketchbook do not use the wintab drivers so these one will work fine, but if you plan on using photoshop you will have to wait.

I forgot to mention the dell 11, but it have a keyboard attached to the screen and is N-trig technology, but it's still a good alternative too.

As I said, nothing perfect so far...

Man I love your posts, very clarifying!

Well, I do plan to use it mostly for painting, but some zbrush work would be nice too.

I guess an i5 tablet is the way to go. Seems a good compromise between price vs battery/performance.

Now, you didnt mention that samsung ativ pro's issues. Anything relevant on that?

[Raoul Duke]

Did everyone see that Wacom is planning to release their own tablet? Info is scarce, but it sounds kinda exciting...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/01/w...creative-uses/

That looks dope I wish I could have waited for that. The Samsung ATIV I got isn't built with digital artists in mind. The S Pen doesn't have an eraser. The surface is too glossy to take outside and too slick to draw slow and carefully. I'm really missing the key command buttons and the wheel for adjusting brush sizes. I don't really miss the extra thousand levels of pressure sensitivity. It's not a lemon, but I have to adjust my drawing technique to facilitate it. I would not recommend it to anybody that draws slow and big.

If you can hold your breath 'till wacom has something DO IT.

[darkmagistric]

That looks dope I wish I could have waited for that. The Samsung ATIV I got isn't built with digital artists in mind. The S Pen doesn't have an eraser. The surface is too glossy to take outside and too slick to draw slow and carefully. I'm really missing the key command buttons and the wheel for adjusting brush sizes. I don't really miss the extra thousand levels of pressure sensitivity. It's not a lemon, but I have to adjust my drawing technique to facilitate it. I would not recommend it to anybody that draws slow and big.

If you can hold your breath 'till wacom has something DO IT.

While the stock S-pen and new Wacom Bamboo Feel Pens don't have erasers....any Wacom Penabled Tablet PC Pen will work....and the vast majority have erasers. You should be able to snag a decent pen with eraser off ebay pretty cheaply.

And as far as the glossy & Slick screen.....have you considered a screen protector? Screen protectors can cut down on glare and also give it a new surface feeling.

[-Tragedy-]

Has anyone had any experience with the x230t?

Here's a good artists review: http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/point...d-x230t-review

I'm considering getting one for illustration in PS on the go, along with light 3D work and video-editing. Just for on the fly conceptual stuff.
Save the big stuff for home.

I'm liking it because:
i5/i7
8-16GB RAM
IPS monitor
1366x768 isn't an issue IMO
Small and compact
Removable battery... Allowing me to carry spares!!!

Does anybody have any experience with this machine?
Or know anything of a similar calibre?
How is it to draw on?

I'm after a convertible 11-14" that I can just chuck in a backpack on my daily commute, take to life drawing classes ect...

How does PS hold up with Intel 4000?

The i5 and i7 seem very similar in these. Considering the i5 because of the price/performance ratio.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64896/...p-to-3_30-GHz)
http://ark.intel.com/products/64893/...up-to-3_60-GHz
http://shopap.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary...95E61FD0412F7E

I hear that these have some build quality issues, however this is just from one party on tabletpcreview.com

Cheers.

[Raoul Duke]

While the stock S-pen and new Wacom Bamboo Feel Pens don't have erasers....any Wacom Penabled Tablet PC Pen will work....and the vast majority have erasers. You should be able to snag a decent pen with eraser off ebay pretty cheaply.

And as far as the glossy & Slick screen.....have you considered a screen protector? Screen protectors can cut down on glare and also give it a new surface feeling.

I'm just returning an "anti glare" screen protector. Because it did nothing to cut down on the glare. It did however cut down on the slickness, but the bubbles were the trade off. Even after carefully following the directions and letting it sit for a day. It also disrupted the already weak touch recognition.

Is there a brand that works with wacom that anybody can recommend? I did my homework and some of the best screen protectors don't get along with wacom. I just went with the one samsung built for the ATIV.

[Griffonnage]

Man I love your posts, very clarifying!

Well, I do plan to use it mostly for painting, but some zbrush work would be nice too.

I guess an i5 tablet is the way to go. Seems a good compromise between price vs battery/performance.

Now, you didnt mention that samsung ativ pro's issues. Anything relevant on that?

I didn't mentionned it because they were some but that feel more like built issue for the first devices that came in november. The biggest one was the Keyboard dock disconecting each time you moved the screen. Looking at the reviews you will see that issue. Now I read on forum it's quite solve or people are getting new Keyboard for reimplacement.
Another strange thing is that on some benchmark it have really less good results than the surface pro which have the same pieces inside it. But that's not on all benchmark and may depends on the update and drivers... I still want to warn you at this point.

Here I'm using one I just recieved today and I'm fighting with the auto-correction... I didn't tried Photoshop or zbrush, but I will definitly do it tomorrow and this week end. It's a lot of money for this little thing, I do not plan to be nice about the results. I bought this one instead of an andoid Tablet because I wanted to run zbrush, if the results are not good enough to worth the money, I will let you know ! For now I try to update everything but I'm a little lost with win8 new interface hehe... If you have any questions that I can test, feel free to ask.

Now I didn't mentionned them but there are the motion computing that do good Tablet, these are done for outdoor purpose, I didn't have a lot of informations about the new models but the old one are sturdy. Only problem with them is the price, but that can be interesting to take a look !
You can check the sticky thread for a list of devices, a lot are missing but maybe you can find something that fit your needs and price range with the ones shorted here

Wacom announced a Tablet for this summer but no-one have information about size, os and price. Actualy, the only thing we know is it will have a cintiq digitizer instead of the traditionnal TabletPC digitizer all brands are currently using.

[Griffonnage]

So ! I ran some quick tests on the Samsung Ativ Pro. Here are my first thought about it, but I need to spend more time on it and get used to it. I will post a second thought in a few days.

It's my first TabletPC. My previous experiences are : used for some days the EP 121, have an Ipad at home and used some other android devices before. This time it's my first time with Win8 tablet. I have to say I'm really bad with win8, it took me ages to figure out how to close a Metro app, how to access the virtual keyboard and so :p (I'm a little stupid when it come to learn things like that, I let you figure out how many time it took me to understand how to use properly an Ipad ahah)
I did all my tests without power cord attached, as I want to test the abilities of this thing as "mobile" device.

I played with it on Zbrush and photoshop, the two apps I bought this device for. I was surprised to see Zbrush have less lag than photoshop at first try. Typically, I worked with 5M models and I only have some little lag when the tablet needed to cool down, so for one second it have a kind of lag but it disapear the next second and do not happen too often to be a bother. I used artdock of course and I have to say it's really cool, quite responsive, the overall experience is good.

Photoshop, well... at first it was very very laggy (CS5) but after some time, the lag started to disapear (possibly, the tablet is still downloading some update in background, I didn't disabled wifi but that was still really painfull comparing to Zbrush)

One thing to notice, I do not have anymore wacom device on my desktop since I bought my Yiynova, so I totally forgot about one "bug" that come with wacom drivers : the lost of pressure sensitivity from time to time. That was the really annoying thing during the test but it do not come from the hardware... Maybe a drivers update would help, but after looking at all kind of problems peoples have trying one drivers and another, with calibration jittering, I decided to stick with the original drivers for now.

I did a test on a 3000*3000 canvas, 72 dpi (yes, a little canvas) for first test. After the "lag time" passed, I did not encounter any kind of difficulties using big brush with opacity. Even a 1000 px size brush was okay. Not as fluid as on a desktop, but not very laggy too. If you do quick big brushes move with something from this size, it become slower of course, but honestly that can be managed.
With less big brushes, it is fluid but again, sometime there are some "loss" of information that seems to happen. Typically, that mean doing a quick sketch with fast move will end with lines crossing the canvas as the software registered the begining, the end but not the "middle" of your gesture.

So for now, the Zbrush experience was better than the photoshop one. But I think it's kind of normal, the tablet is trying to update, I didn't investigate everywhere to find solutions either so I will try again in a couple more hours, after letting the Samsung upgrade and reboot some more time.

----

Let's say a word about the hardware itself now.

The Samsung have a kind of smooth surface, that feel really comfy for fingers but give a little "grip" sensation when using the stylus. It's not bad at all but I had to get used to it (I'm now an addict to slick surface). It help a lot to do some slow curves for exemple.
The screen itself looks nice, very clear, very bright... Resolution... well, I hope you have good eyes :p The UI is really tiny because of it. (UI size can be changed but I stick with that size, using the stylus instead).

After some hours working with it, it didn't became hot. It was warm but never enough to become unconfortable, I think I managed to do serious work with it 2 hours, 1 hours just doing researchn update and little web browsing and currently it have enough battery for one more hours. Not bad at all, if you consider I didn't turned wifi off and other things that could help to save power.

Now for me the very bad point if you plan to use it for art is the stylus.
Damn, that is really a bad one, I'm not speaking about the size but it's really not easy to control your pressure curve with this one, it do not feel sturdy, buttons are hard to find/press. You end using the full pressure before you know it and the accurarcy if you tilt it isn't very good especially on the borders. I think it worth to try with another brand stylus, I would keep this one into the tablet as a "secour stylus" but nothing more... (And for the sake of those claming "256 are enough, you don't notice the difference with more, it's a commercial argument" : I miss the 2048 from my monitor display and I can definitly say 256 levels versus 2048, you feel the difference. 256 are not bad, but definitly I need to adapt my strokes.)

Except that, I think it's not a bad device at all for working "on the go". I need to test photoshop again and find why it was laggy (definitly shouldn't be so much) I will try to do some videos to show how it works, so everyone can have an idea. It's maybe not a device made for artist, but that's not bad at all. I do not know if Wacom plan on releasing a win8 tablet, but for now, if you plan on using Zbrush, this one looks okay !

[LN824]

Would anyone know how many levels of pressure sensitivity there are on the X230T?

I ask this because I have just installed Photoshop CS6 and I seem to have many issues sketching. I will be drawing a series of light lines and then suddenly a fatter line will appear, I will continue sketching and this will happen over and over again.

I am very frustrated since I bought this specifically for Photoshop. Does anyone know why this is happening? I already turned off the "hold pen down to right click" feature, but I continue to have this issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Griffonnage]

Hmm sound like a drivers issue. I have the same on the ativ 700T but I didn't made any update or so. Did you try looking on lenovo website about some drivers ?

[-Tragedy-]

256 or 512 I believe.

I agree with Griff, most likely a driver issue.

I'm getting an x230T this coming week for Photoshop CS6 and Zbrush, so I may be able to help.

Stalk this guy and try and get some help. That's what I'm hoping to do to get this properly set up. http://sourgasm.deviantart.com/art/Y...ulpt-357807780
He managed to get some pretty slick work done in CS6 and ZBrush with he x230T.

But yes, go ravage the Lenovo/Wacom drivers section. Be sure to post your results please!

[darkmagistric]

Would anyone know how many levels of pressure sensitivity there are on the X230T?

I ask this because I have just installed Photoshop CS6 and I seem to have many issues sketching. I will be drawing a series of light lines and then suddenly a fatter line will appear, I will continue sketching and this will happen over and over again.

I am very frustrated since I bought this specifically for Photoshop. Does anyone know why this is happening? I already turned off the "hold pen down to right click" feature, but I continue to have this issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The x230T as well as virtually every Wacom enabled Tablet PC is limited to 256 levels of pressure. At max the hardware is capable of 512 levels which Wacom only enabled for the AC powered displays like the DTU series as well as the older Cintiqs...and the original Modbook.

As for the crap photoshop performance....Are you running Windows 7 or Windows 8?

Windows 8 has been a utter disaster in this regard, but it is ultimately a driver problem though.

If it is running Windows 8, try and partion the harddrive and install Windows 7 and see if you have the same problem.

Also, try older Trial versions of Photoshop, like CS5.

Although I didn't have the same problem you're having, A few years back I was content with using Photoshop CS4...which worked horriable on my new Asus ep121. I found CS5....although still having quite a few flaws on the ep121...did run better then CS4.

Other things you can try besides trying every driver out there...Try disabling Touch....Wacoms Palm rejection is far from perfect...and quick tiny lines can skip it up.

Also....what power/battery setting is your 230x set for?

It could be set for Power/Energy Saver which would reduce performance. Try putting it on High Performance and see if it works better

[LN824]

Thanks for the responses.

I am currently using Windows 7 pro, but was about to upgrade to Windows 8. Should I hold off on this for now?

As for my difficulty drawing in Photoshop, I am having somewhat better success now. I uninstalled the Wacom driver, then installed the most up to date driver.

I've adjusted to going from my Cintiq to the 256 levels on the X230T. I also switched from the stock stylus, to a Fujitsu stylus that has a softer feel, giving me less resistance and smother sketching.

I'm starting to warm up to it now. I've also connected a shuttle pro which I program to toggle my brush sizes on the fly, and the Zooming functions.

Originally I wanted to go with the Helix, which "supposedly" has over 2000 levels of pressure. It's been delayed now, and they still haven't announced the release date.

[Griffonnage]

I would say yes, wait a little before upgrading for windows 8. I use it and it's okay as a tablet OS, but it definitly isn't as performant as win7.
No surprise here, it's a young OS, it will take some month before it become really interesting. At least, wait windows blue and let see what is coming ^^

[LN824]

Things are going well so far with the X230T. I've definitely become more comfortable with drawing with it. I have the core i7 with 16GB ram and a Samsung 256GB SSD, so it's very powerful. It's light but definitely more bulky than a Tablet. I like that I can Twist the Tablet and leave it up at an angle to draw. I have not yet tried to paint a full painting yet, but I'll update you guys when I do.

I have the Window 8 upgrade in hand, and I'm trying to decide whether or not to install it. Are there definite problems with Photoshop and windows 8 that anyone can report?

I'm trying to hard to love the x230T, but I keep thinking that the Helix is going to be a superior experience.

Does anyone even know the release date for the Lenovo Helix?

I made a deal with the Lenovo salesman that if the Helix came out and I wanted to switch to that, He would waive the restocking fee. But I only have 21 days from when they shipped the tablet to change my mind. And I doubt the Helix comes out in time.

[-Tragedy-]

@LN824
How do you find if for Photoshop in Win7?
What screen option did you get? If multi-touch, how is the palm-rejection? Because I'm getting the multi-touch version because I thought it would be quicker for zooming/scrolling in PS.

[Griffonnage]

No date about the helix release, it at been delayed and should come this summer...