Illustration vs drawing

[sone_one]

We could go around in circles forever with this subject and not change others' minds. I guess it just irks me a little when people assume that the ultimate skill in art is representing something accurately. That is presumptuous at the very least.

i never ment to say that... quite the opposite actually. yet its my opinion that beeing proficent in it (according to my definition above) wont stop you from creating the ultimate picture neither if you got what it takes in other and more important departments (see picture making skills above). thats why i said it wont hurt...ö

we could argue about our definitions of draftsmanship, but i see no good in that, as i defined my concept of that term and you did aswell. they differ... im ok with that. so from now on if you use it, i know your definition and therefore, my interpretation of what you say, is probably closer to what you mean to say. and the same hopefully goes the other way around.

If you're ambition is to be a syndicated cartoonist, do they have those in Europe, then why study years of anatomy and academic drawing when you could spend the time studying current events etc. Having your kind of ultimate draftsmanship can be a disability.

only if you introduce the time variable to whats been said. but then the original question was not, if time could be spent more wisely, but if interest and competence in drawing would hurt your ability to successfully illustrate (thats how i read it).

[dpaint]

And my belief is that there is no ultimate draftsmanship. That draftsmanship is only good as it is appropriate to the intent. An obvious form of this comes in comics. Over-drawing can be a real detriment in telling stories. The problem with having a skill is that one always wants to show off that skill. So the key for me is that one is aware of where they fit in to the scheme of things. Having the painting skills of Sargent, would you ever settle for doing a daily comic strip? If you're ambition is to be a syndicated cartoonist, do they have those in Europe, then why study years of anatomy and academic drawing when you could spend the time studying current events etc. Having your kind of ultimate draftsmanship can be a disability.

That is just apologist twaddel, tell that to Alex Ross, Neil Adams, Mobeus, Dave McKean, Winsor McCay, Heinrich Klee, Carl Barks, Preston Blair, all the mad magazine guys and about a thousand other comic artists. Good draftsmanship by its very nature takes into account the end result, that is why it is good, bad draftsmanship hides behind inability.

[bcarman]

Good draftsmanship by its very nature takes into account the end result,

Exactly, you have made my point. The end result, or intent, is the measure of good draftsmanship not some ambiguous gold standard. And any name you put on a list can be countered with other artist/cartoonist as or more successful in their own right. Also my example used syndicated cartoonists; so for example Charles Schultz, Gary Trudeau, Gary Larson.

By the way my twaddel is never apologist, it is confident and well informed.

[Alice Herring]

That is just apologist twaddel, tell that to Alex Ross, Neil Adams, Mobeus, Dave McKean, Winsor McCay, Heinrich Klee, Carl Barks, Preston Blair, all the mad magazine guys and about a thousand other comic artists. Good draftsmanship by its very nature takes into account the end result, that is why it is good, bad draftsmanship hides behind inability.

Do you mean Heinrich Kley? (who is amazing. and the book is cheap. BUY IT. BUY IT NOW.)

I wonder if people are confusing design with draftsmanship?

[dpaint]

Exactly, you have made my point. The end result, or intent, is the measure of good draftsmanship not some ambiguous gold standard. And any name you put on a list can be countered with other artist/cartoonist as or more successful in their own right. Also my example used syndicated cartoonists; so for example Charles Schultz, Gary Trudeau, Gary Larson.

By the way my twaddel is never apologist, it is confident and well informed.

If I made your point you owe me a beer.

[sone_one]

I wonder if people are confusing design with draftsmanship?

i think so

[bcarman]

I wonder if people are confusing design with draftsmanship?

How so?

And when we meet a beer it is Armand.

[Qitsune]

That must have been the most interesting thread around here for months.