Advice, Stuck,How-To, Arghhh!

[Xopher]

I myself, posted 1 (maybe 2) many of these and become more confused when I was told to use the search box (which I didn't) oops.

The basic answer I got is 'JUST DRAW' ( 'oh hell he said it') but the truth is

"IT WORKS"

I found the real teacher is me, each mistake I make is something learned that wont happen in the next piece,
because my last drawing is teaching me how to approach
the next one,in essence teaching MYSELF and everything drawn that actually worked, is a new weapon in my arsenal
practising making a library in my head and hand.

I found that like learning to hit a target
with a ball, knowing the trajectory and physics of it will improve knowledge, but I can hit a target by just
throwing it till it hits the bullseye repeatability without being a scientist.

I would like to mention another issue of depression and health problems even disorders such as ADD.
I know that the suffering artist is a well known stereotype such as Van Gogh but its definitely not a prerequisite for the creation
of art and if it is: Well then I am off to go BANG my head against the WALL and see if I improve.

Some may thrive with it artistically but I am not one of them, so I myself took my own advice and seen a doctor but finally I CAN CONCENTRATE NOW.

And since I watched every tutorial( and I spent $ and crap loads of time doin it ) in the past and was misguided by how easy GREAT
artists make it look, such as thinking 'its just a box' or 'the highlight goes here' and 'the stick man isn't even drawn right'.
When actually putting pen to paper and seeing that my lines weren't smooth and my box was out of perspective and combining
shapes is quite hard, not to mention the fact that my gesture work was the basis for how dynamic my end figure would look.

Putting pen to paper was the answer all along. So now 'I JUST DRAW' nothing worth posting, just sketches on top of sketches
I even grab a bigger pen and go over top of that, and it 'FEELS GREAT'

EDIT: reduced size of rambling

EDIT: was sermon like I agree , tried from my perspective to read a little better, had to remove the part that vineris addressed, but atleast its in this thread.

[Psychotime]

Maybe it's because the sun hasn't risen over here, yet, but I have a hard time seeing the point of your post.

The worst part is how you actually ask people to sit through it, which is just smug and conceited. I make long winded and pointless walls of text all the time here (It's fun!), but I know it'd be an asshole move to not only expect, but to essentially DEMAND for people to bother with my pointless ramblings.

EDIT: Ok, you edited it.

[Xopher]

Sorry you feel that way, I hope at-least somebody will benefit from my experience as it helped me and I wanted to help anyone that felt the same way. I may have come across as DEMANDING because I was excited the the time of the post, my use OF THE CAPS BUTTON was not meant as shouting but just to outline certain points, I apologise that you found it as in your face and pointless.

[TinyBird]

I might almost say your post partially amounts to "Stop Whining, Start Working" http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223223

[Xopher]

Yeh basically same thing just from my personal perspective gained thankfully through the help of people on this site, I just wanted to pass it along. But I seem to come across badly with most my posts lol, feel like I am talking to my mother having to explain myself all time but I guess my sense of humour translates as arrogant or something, when its meant to be honest and hopefully helpful :/

[Psychotime]

I may have come across as DEMANDING because I was excited the the time of the post, my use OF THE CAPS BUTTON was not meant as shouting but just to outline certain points, I apologise that you found it as in your face and pointless.

No no, it was just the lines you removed. I use caps for EMPHASIS sometimes, too. I think it looks better than bold, italic, or underline.

[vineris]

I do know that hearing your question answered when you yourself post it, does give a better kick than just reading
somebody else's post ( as it did me) and that is why so many ask the same questions.

The problem is that answering the same question over and over frustrates the expert. Once answering questions stops being rewarding for them, they stop. More often they decide that you're incapable of doing basic research and so helping you is a waste of time. Either way you lose out.

[Xopher]

The problem is that answering the same question over and over frustrates the expert. Once answering questions stops being rewarding for them, they stop. More often they decide that you're incapable of doing basic research and so helping you is a waste of time. Either way you lose out.

Definitely true and part of the the reason why I have tried to answer some of the questions myself and help others in the process.

I'm not an expert but I know the problem and was helped past it, I think if people don't whine and are thankful to anyone that does answer them and not sarcastic when things don't go their way, most will be helpful if they can.

EDIT: just want to add that this post is from others help about just getting down to it and draw, not just something I came up with and I posted it because I seen the frustration of experts repeating themselves

[Candra H]

You know, I didn't read the op because it comes across like someone telling me what I should be doing, not what they've discovered and their excitement about that.

Sharing what we learn is nice but not when it reads like a sermon. And if I spent my time telling others what I think I know, I'd never get anything done.

P.S. Xopher, have you started a sketchbook yet? I looked but couldnt find any art by you.

[Xopher]

You know, I didn't read the op because it comes across like someone telling me what I should be doing, not what they've discovered and their excitement about that.

Sharing what we learn is nice but not when it reads like a sermon. And if I spent my time telling others what I think I know, I'd never get anything done.

P.S. Xopher, have you started a sketchbook yet? I looked but couldnt find any art by you.

Yeah your right, I think it has come off that way unfortunately.

But when I was told it from asking, it came of as being told to just go away and draw, I thought saying it as someone that was told it and trying to explain that its a helping yourself kind of thing actually works it would help.

But yeah nobody likes to be told what to do without asking for the advice in first place, should of realised that.

Haven't got sketchbook up yet no, I had explained in the post first time that most what I been doing is just drawing over and over my own work, just to understand where I am at and where to improve, I'm hoping to get some stuff up and if its any good try and contribute some video tutorials when I'm at that stage that I'm no longer looked at as a noob

EDIT: will try improve the readability, thanks.

[Candra H]

Haven't got sketchbook up yet no, I had explained in the post first time that most what I been doing is just drawing over and over my own work, just to understand where I am at and where to improve, I'm hoping to get some stuff up and if its any good try and contribute some video tutorials when I'm at that stage that I'm no longer looked at as a noob

Um, I draw my own work over and over. It's how I learn and get better, and I'm certainly not shy about posting it in my sketchbook.

Take a chance, make a sketchbook thread and join in the community for the fun of the learning, not for some idea about getting to "tutor" stage. Who gives a fuck whether you can make a video tutorial or if you think you can teach others? Isn't your own learning curve more important to you?

Not trying to be an arsehole with any of this. Just trying to break you out of your current thought process because it seems like you've got things all back to front. You need to stop thinking and talking about your art and what you want to do with it, and just go fucking do it! And good luck!

[Xopher]

Fair call, its 4am here but I will try get something up when I'm actually awake.

[Shorinji_Knight]

Unless you post your art nobody is going to take your advice seriously. The way most of us judge if a person is capable of giving sound art advice is by checking out the person's work (preferably in your signature). The quality of the work determines how much weight your opinions hold.

It puts people off when somebody is full of opinions about making art but you can't find any example of their work, or you really have to dig for it. Sometimes it turns out they do good stuff, but more often not.

[Xopher]

Just want to say people should feel free to talk to each other about their Art problems even if its not about pencils and paper and more about how they feel and not be flamed for it.

It may be in the Art discussion section and that annoys people but maybe a section called whining or I am frustrated with my fucking self section should be added.

[keeptime]

Funny, Kamber Parkk just said that last night in the learning block thread:

Chrissakes. . .

Perhaps "General Forums" should have another sub-category:

"Motivation, Boredom, Laziness and Whining"

Then all this "stuff" can be moved to the new forum.

[Xopher]

Trouble is anybody worth listening to would most likely avoid that section like the plague lol

[NajamQ]

The problem is not that there is no information on the forum already. The structure of the forum is very confusing for a new comer. Most of the time the person doesn't know what are they actually searching for. So it all ends up in new threads.

There is a thread "Stop whining, start drawing" which in its own essence is partially offensive to a learner. We do not come here whining, We come here seeking help from professionals and a guidance in right direction.

What we actually get is being mocked, made fun of. Being called a whiner, Lazy and all kinds of joking around.

First of all, the forum must be structured in a way for a learner or new user to find information easily, it will reduce repeat questions substantially.

I am extremely sorry to say, every time I come here on the forum with some query in mind, I have to face forum bullies just because they have better art in their sketchbooks or other threads, they take it as their right to mock if someone wants to learn.

[Xopher]

I found it confusing when I first cam here and actually left, I came back months later and was unsure where to post but when I posted people replied and it got me thinking and actually helped when I listened. I did try and start a social network in one my other threads for posting video tutorials and discussion to address these kind of concerns but it kinda failed in execution.

I guess we all just need a church roof to paint on!

[keeptime]

I don't get why newcomers complain so much. These forums are laid out exactly like any other forums. Every sub-forum has its own description. Important posts are stickied at the top, so common sense dictates that you should at least skim them and see if anything you wanted to know has already been answered. There's a search function that works beautifully (far better than most other forums I've been on) so you can see if your question has been dealt with in the past. Beyond all that, if you're polite and you show you can work it seems like most posters are more than happy to help even if you have trouble understanding. There's a difference between asking "I'm having this problem, what am I doing wrong?" and asking "What's the fastest way to get good at art?".

I think the real problem is people just don't want to read around before they start posting. No one wants to take the time to figure out where the best place to post something is, or if they should be posting something at all.

[Shorinji_Knight]

I didn't see any flames here... just advice. You're right that everything isn't organized to be easy to find, but how would you do that? Most of the helpful stuff just pops up in the course of a conversation. They sticky the best stuff. You can't sticky everything.


People aren't trying to bully you guys. They are giving you the answers you need for the most part. It just seems that the answers given aren't what you want to hear. There really is no magic bullet you have to draw to get better.

[Xopher]

Unless you post your art nobody is going to take your advice seriously. The way most of us judge if a person is capable of giving sound art advice is by checking out the person's work (preferably in your signature). The quality of the work determines how much weight your opinions hold.

It puts people off when somebody is full of opinions about making art but you can't find any example of their work, or you really have to dig for it. Sometimes it turns out they do good stuff, but more often not.

So if my Art isn't any good I cant give advice on how I was helped out of a difficult situation ?

I realise if I was an expert more people would listen and less people be offended, but I am not trying to talk down to anybody, especially people that have already pushed past any of these concerns on their own or never had them, but I felt the need to voice my opinion.

If the weight of my advice is weak at best then so be it but If one person is helped like I was Ill be happy no matter how many put me down for posting it.

I am not meaning you personally your advice is sound and Ill try and get some work up and people can feel free to judge me based on that if they want.

[Arshes Nei]

The problem is not that there is no information on the forum already. The structure of the forum is very confusing for a new comer. Most of the time the person doesn't know what are they actually searching for. So it all ends up in new threads.

There is a thread "Stop whining, start drawing" which in its own essence is partially offensive to a learner. We do not come here whining, We come here seeking help from professionals and a guidance in right direction.

What we actually get is being mocked, made fun of. Being called a whiner, Lazy and all kinds of joking around.

First of all, the forum must be structured in a way for a learner or new user to find information easily, it will reduce repeat questions substantially.

I am extremely sorry to say, every time I come here on the forum with some query in mind, I have to face forum bullies just because they have better art in their sketchbooks or other threads, they take it as their right to mock if someone wants to learn.

Less whining more Lurking. Sticky posts are up there for a reason. I didn't post for I believe 2 years and for a while I had an account and didn't post. I just sat down and wondered "well is there info on this thing" and slowly went through the forums. I also used google with keywords "site:conceptart.org" and I still do it to this day when people ask questions I remember asking in another thread.

If I can take the time to do this, so can you

It's more frustrating with newcomers whining and complaining something isn't laid out all neat. Sorry art doesn't work that way, your progress doesn't work that way either. You may be doing super spaceships filled with people before you learned foundations. However, at some point your super cool neat idea didn't work because you didn't learn foundations...so you go back and look around for that information.

I'm sorry art isn't this straight structured path like some people want. I'm sorry people come to this forum for different reasons, but get over it, and start doing work.

If you don't want to knuckle down and do the work, this may not be the right thing for you to work on....

Enough people have left due to some politics of the site, more now because of site issues. We don't need the rest leaving because it's filled with a user who keeps spamming up the forums each week "is this book any good" "how to start on this" "is this tablet better than the other" and not post art at least so that the people volunteering doesn't feel like their time is wasted.

[Shorinji_Knight]

So if my Art isn't any good I cant give advice on how I was helped out of a difficult situation ?

I realise if I was an expert more people would listen and less people be offended, but I am not trying to talk down to anybody, especially people that have already pushed past any of these concerns on their own or never had them, but I felt the need to voice my opinion.

If the weight of my advice is weak at best then so be it but If one person is helped like I was Ill be happy no matter how many put me down for posting it.

I am not meaning you personally your advice is sound and Ill try and get some work up and people can feel free to judge me based on that if they want.

If someone’s art isn't any good are you going to take art advice from them? I turn to the people who can demonstrate that their advice works, not those who can't. It is the same in any field or subject.

Please don't misunderstand me, I don't mean anything against you or anything you're probably a great person. I'm just explaining why you're getting the kind of responses you've been getting here.

[Xopher]

I found it confusing when I first cam here and actually left, I came back months later and was unsure where to post but when I posted people replied and it got me thinking and actually helped when I listened. I did try and start a social network in one my other threads for posting video tutorials and discussion to address these kind of concerns but it kinda failed in execution.

I guess we all just need a church roof to paint on!

Just want to correct myself ,My problem wasn't the forum itself or even the peoples replies, but more my own perspective on it. A gap seems to exist between what am I was supposed to be doing and how I do it and Its not a technique or even a question that could be answered easily in any category, but a understanding of self and part of that answer is just draw and why I posted this thread.

[Star Eater]

I am extremely sorry to say, every time I come here on the forum with some query in mind, I have to face forum bullies just because they have better art in their sketchbooks or other threads, they take it as their right to mock if someone wants to learn.

You're lying. Prove this statement and I do mean prove it.

Prove it to the letter that every time you come on here with a query you get bullied and I am not referring
to your recent behavior here in the art discussion forum. In fact, prove it at all that
you are getting bullied. If anyone is bullying to you, show them to me and I will take it
to the staff.

This profession is not for people who need to be pampered. We all get our asses kicked
in the learning process at some point. Either here, or with our art or even in the industry.
Either you get stronger and learn from it, or you don't and go nowhere.

[Xopher]

@NajamQ, I understand your frustration and somewhat agree with some of your statements, but part of the help I got was found from your many threads you started (maybe a few too many about the same thing) and many people have given you VERY helpful advice.
I don't want to sound mean in anyway I don't know if you have been bullied or not and if you have I hope its resolved but you are in the same place I was and still partly am (which has been plainly stated to me) but you might want to Start taking some of the advice that has been given as I must try to as-well.

[Xopher]

@Star Eater

This profession is not for people who need to be pampered.

Cant we just Hug it out cmon people group hugs!!! Sorry couldn't help it coffee high got to me.

EDIT: your are always straight to the point really gets me to go oh shit step back and just do it.

[Kamber Parrk]

The problem is not that there is no information on the forum already. The structure of the forum is very confusing for a new comer. Most of the time the person doesn't know what are they actually searching for. So it all ends up in new threads.

There is a thread "Stop whining, start drawing" which in its own essence is partially offensive to a learner. We do not come here whining, We come here seeking help from professionals and a guidance in right direction.

What we actually get is being mocked, made fun of. Being called a whiner, Lazy and all kinds of joking around.

First of all, the forum must be structured in a way for a learner or new user to find information easily, it will reduce repeat questions substantially.

I am extremely sorry to say, every time I come here on the forum with some query in mind, I have to face forum bullies just because they have better art in their sketchbooks or other threads, they take it as their right to mock if someone wants to learn.

Hey NajamQ,

To the extent I might've been a bit of an asshat to you yesterday-- I'd like to apologize.

(In real life, I'm actually a likable low-key smart ass who throws a bit of mockery to my personal friends-- and takes a bit. Of course, face to face, it's easier to gage if something's having a bad impact.)

Nobody here wants to actually emotionally hurt you-- people just want motivate you.

All the best to you.

[Elwell]

NajamQ, if you like I could ban you, that would solve both of our problems.

[NajamQ]

Edited------