Sleep and the lack thereof

**Kweckduck** · July 24th, 2012, 01:54 AM

For the last 3 or 4 months I've tried to really knuckle down and draw every day, do loads of studies etc. But since I work full time, study full time, have a house to finish and a wife to entertain the only time-frame that I can draw with a minimum amount of interruptions is between 8 and 12pm. Quite often I get carried away and it even stretches to 1am. This leaves me with about 5 - 6 hours of sleep per night. For some this might be more than enough, but I wake up zombie style, gathering all my willpower just to crawl to the shower.

A shower helps somewhat in the morning. Coffee might make a dent too. I find a 15 min powernap after work really helps to get to midnight and beyond.

I'm sure I'm not the only one dealing with sleep deprivation, so what do you guys do to lessen the tiredness and give you some more energy?

Not sure if the Lounge is better suited for this topic, but as it pertains to the process of learning I figured Art Discussion fit better.

**Grunler** · July 24th, 2012, 02:39 AM

Well, no real substitution for rest. If you can make it happen, I'd try to establish larger but less frequent blocks of time to devote to drawing. You could, for example, set aside two whole evenings a week for drawing and limit yourself to sketching and preliminary work during the rest of the week. Then you can really delve into your projects, rather than having to stop right when you're gaining momentum.

Or you know, just quit your job and go for broke! Haha.

**MarkSturm** · July 24th, 2012, 05:40 AM

Is it off-colour around here to suggest Xyrem? (GHB)

Unfortunately it's not available in Australia, where I live, but it might be available wherever you are. I've been investigating it as my sleep quality is pretty terrible and that's primarily what it's used for, as far as I know. Not sure if that's something you'd consider or if it's available to you, but you could find it helps with rejuvenating you to a greater extent while your sleep length is limited.

**Saraiva** · July 24th, 2012, 11:51 AM

There is only so much you can do with your day. Are you excercising and eating well? Nothing beats a good breakfast and a quick run to wake you up. Sleep deprivation, in drastic cases, can start to affect your overall health. So take care of yourself or you wont be studying/working much if you start to get fatigued.

**QueenGwenevere** · July 24th, 2012, 01:33 PM

I can get by on six hours, but eight is nicer for sure when I can get it...

During crunch times, I'm sometimes able to pull through with no real sleep but with periodic two-hour naps. One hour doesn't work, but two hours can be enough to get me through the next stretch.

I also seem to recall that a twenty minute nap is effective if you're not getting quite enough sleep... Maybe upping your fifteen minute nap to twenty minutes would work better? I don't know.

Exercise is good too. I try to take a brisk walk for an hour each day, even during crunch - this helps enormously. I always feel more energized after a walk. Getting up and stretching and moving around periodically is also a good idea, both to prevent health complications and to keep your circulation going so your brain gets plenty of blood and oxygen and everything it needs to stay awake... Exercise is good for your brain!

Drinking plenty of liquids is good too, as long as it's not super-sugary drinks, those will just make you crash after a sugar high. And eating well does help. I've been making some changes in my diet lately due to general low energy and other issues that developed after the last crunch I went through... I'm trying to eat real breakfasts instead of skimping, and I'm eating tons more leafy greens and vegetables and fruit. Also I'm trying to eat more meat, fish, eggs and nuts and fewer carbs. Also, spinach and kale give me a huge boost, I've noticed. Raw Kale salad with olive oil and pecans, that's good stuff, man.

And super dark chocolate, of course. Food of the gods.

Since changing my diet, I'm noticing huge improvements and more energy so far. (Besides fixing other health problems...) Of course this is tailored to my metabolism, so other people's mileage may vary. But sometimes a simple change in diet can work wonders, so it's worth considering.

**dose** · July 24th, 2012, 01:52 PM

Don't burn out. Find a pace that is sustainable and keep it.

Regular practice is much better than sporadic chunks. Smart practice is better than grinding out the hours. Make it a part of your life- but don't compromise your life. Right now I am working full time in the web industry, have a six-month-old baby, a yard to take care of, and a wife with more energy than anyone I've ever met. I get to do art for exactly one hour a day- half an hour on my laptop on the train to work, and half an hour on the train home. And yet, I'm confident that I am learning and progressing in my art. I'm even chipping away at what might be my best pieces ever in half hour chunks.

You can do it- just keep going, but be realistic, and be smart!

**vineris** · July 24th, 2012, 02:05 PM

I'll dump just about anything else before I dump sleep. If you booked yourself up then something has to go because long-term sleep deprivation just results in everything suffering. The stress ain't worth it.

When I didn't have much time to draw I carried my sketchbook with me and drew on the bus, in waiting rooms, at lunch, while installing shit, and during any other dead moments in the day. Few of your studies seem to be from life so you'd probably benefit from this.

**littlebones** · July 24th, 2012, 06:40 PM

Oh hey, you're me.

I just deal with 6 hours of sleep. After 6 hours you're waking up between sleep cycles so you'll feel more refreshed. Use Sleepyti.me, it's neat.

Other than that, uhhh. Yeah. Try to sleep more. It's really hard though, I get it. Although I did read once that 5 hours of sleep a night is the best amount to have if you want to live long. I have no scientific backing on this so take it for what it's worth.

**Kweckduck** · July 25th, 2012, 02:07 AM

Interesting stuff guys.

Medication is not really something I want to get into. I generally don't take meds until I really need to, with exception of painkillers to avert a full-on flu or something.

My wife just recently got a personal trainer to help her lose some weight and I've been forced to join in partially. Not a bad idea since I had slowly been gaining some weight myself, because I just sat on my ass all day. We just went on vacation last week so I can't really tell if it's the exercise that's boosting me or the extra sleep I had last week. The dilemma here is that it takes away from drawing time, but I suppose that if it keeps me healthier it will be better in the long run.

I haven't changed my diet yet, probably because I can only summon up so much discipline. It's something to bear in mind though. On the other hand I don't think my eating habits are that unhealthy. Maybe the alcoholic beverages while drawing need to go... This seems to be my worst vice.

I do have a sketchbook with me most of the time, but those few sketches I do manage to fit in between just don't feel like enough. A good 4 hours stretch where you don't have to think about anything else, now that's a slice of the good stuff. But every little bit helps I suppose.

In one place I read that sleep cycles are about 4 hours and in another that they're about 3 hours. Does the length of a sleep cycle vary from person to person? Can you change the length of your own cycle? I've wondered if due to sleeping in on weekends I've been messing up my sleep cycle and am therefore really tired during the week.

**Noah Bradley** · July 25th, 2012, 02:14 AM

Get your sleep.

Despite a somewhat popular notion, you don't have to almost kill yourself to become an artist.

**Koudee** · July 25th, 2012, 02:18 AM

I exercise a lot and I find that that will help give me better sleeps. . . or maybe that is just what I tell myself.

Anyway, I balance quite a few projects so I don't have a set day. I tend to revolve them, giving each their own day while I take a break from the rest. So, I work, study, and pick one thing to do in the evening before/after my exercise.

Then, I give myself about one day a week to sleep in, nap, eat lots of food, and drink lots, and lots, and lots of chocolate milk. Just how I do it.

edit*

Get your sleep.

Despite a somewhat popular notion, you don't have to almost kill yourself to become an artist.

What! But I have to let everyone know how little sleep I got in art class to show that I'm working way, way, way harder than them! ./sarcasm.

**Velocity Kendall** · July 25th, 2012, 05:00 AM

Youll do better work if youre not exhausted.
You have a full life, think of art as a fun escape that you can cumulatively improve at, not something thats slipping through your fingers unless you work crazy hours.
Course, the odd late night drawing is very much part of the fun.

**tobbA** · July 25th, 2012, 11:52 AM

Although I did read once that 5 hours of sleep a night is the best amount to have if you want to live long.

Statistically people who sleep less live longer. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll live longer if you sleep less. (Different people need different amounts of sleep.)

**Velocity Kendall** · July 25th, 2012, 01:07 PM

"Statistically people who sleep less live longer."

Hmm, really?

**[email protected]** · July 25th, 2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall

"Statistically people who sleep less live longer."

Hmm, really?

They make up when they die...

**QueenGwenevere** · July 25th, 2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by tobbA

Statistically people who sleep less live longer. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll live longer if you sleep less.

I would take that with a huge grain of salt. Older people tend to sleep less, so if you're living a long time, that's (statistically) more of your life spent as an older person who sleeps less...

Various other studies have shown that eight hours is ideal, or that ten hours with a little break is natural, or that different people need different amounts of sleep, but so far in general the consensus seems to be that hey, getting enough sleep is good for you! And not getting enough sleep is bad for you! Who knew! ("Enough" being somewhat variable...)

Sleep helps you learn, too.

**Black Spot** · July 25th, 2012, 02:56 PM

If you need an alarm clock, you're not getting enough. Listen to your body. That's coming from someone who thinks getting up at 7am is a lie in.

**Damien Levs** · July 25th, 2012, 04:07 PM

Your life seems to run on par to mine. I'm up at 7am, work by 7:30, Home by 16:30 (17:30 if I do over time) after dinner and a wash or shower, I generally get 4/5 hours drawing time. This results in 6 to 6 1/2 hours sleep per night. I have a girlfriend too...

...the mornings are hard, very hard. I moan and complain about going to work. But you gotta pay the bills right. Thing is, having done for a while now I am getting used to it. I get plenty of exercise at work, having to turn steel on a lathe. Believe me its quite heavy going at times.

Thing is treat art as a wind down. That's how I treat it. Despite my dreams to become an amazing artist and make a living from it, it still has to be fun. I think I am improving, albeit at a slower rate...but one belief I value very much is....

I want this...I have responsibilities...but I will try and do as I can and I will get there. Eventually it will happen...If I die and never succeed, then well...I tried none the less. Better doing art and trying than sitting on your ass those 5/6 hours watching TV right?

Just do what your doing, keep your wife happy and do what you can. I know I feel happier as a person if I only do one sketch in a day...

All the best

**Jason Ross** · July 25th, 2012, 04:43 PM

Drawing on no sleep is really tough. I have 2 kids myself. 2 years and 1 month. Time is tight but it's best to get sleep and draw with a fresh brain. Try going to bed at 9 and get up early and work.

**Shorinji_Knight** · July 25th, 2012, 07:43 PM

I'm gonna give you a different perspective here... I'm a commercial construction worker (hvac)/not quite pro artist. I get up at 5:20am and hit the road. I don't get home until 6:30pm. I have three kids under the age of 8 and a wife so I can't even start painting until bedtime (9:00pm). I am fortunate to get 3-4 hours of painting time in. Sometimes I can't do any because my hands are too numb from working. I average about 4-5hrs of sleep a night during the week. Most of my painting/sleeping is done on the weekends if I'm not pulling overtime. I've been doing construction for 20yrs (I was homeschooled so I started fulltime at 14) now and if I don't get out I have another 36yrs of it to before I can retire... so it becomes a question of just how motivated you are to make art a career. Sure I don't get enough sleep and it might be bad for my health, but my job is somewhat dangerous and the idea of sitting safely at home with my family while doing art for a living sounds like a very sweet dream.

**Star Eater** · July 25th, 2012, 08:04 PM

I sleep all day and I work all night. Like a vampire.

Originally I did it to escape the heat of our summers here, but now its a
hard habit to break. I do enjoy it though, so quiet...even take the dog out for
a walk after midnight.

I'm one of those weirdos.

**tobbA** · July 25th, 2012, 08:12 PM

I would take that with a huge grain of salt. Older people tend to sleep less, so if you're living a long time, that's (statistically) more of your life spent as an older person who sleeps less...

Well, now I had to look on wikipedia... : P

A University of California, San Diego psychiatry study of more than one million adults found that people who live the longest self-report sleeping for six to seven hours each night.[24] Another study of sleep duration and mortality risk in women showed similar results.[25] Other studies show that "sleeping more than 7 to 8 hours per day has been consistently associated with increased mortality," though this study suggests the cause is probably other factors such as depression and socioeconomic status, which would correlate statistically.[26] It has been suggested that the correlation between lower sleep hours and reduced morbidity only occurs with those who wake naturally, rather than those who use an alarm.

**QueenGwenevere** · July 25th, 2012, 11:14 PM

Take EVERYTHING on Wikipedia with a grain of salt. Any chump can edit that thing.

Originally Posted by Star Eater

I sleep all day and I work all night. Like a vampire.

Join the club!

I think I originally became nocturnal as a kid because staying up all night was the only way to get any time to myself... I never had my own room so I used to stay up all night in the bathtub to draw. Good clean art.

But now my schedule is completely random and discombobulated after years of screwiness. Sometimes I wake up at 6:00am, sometimes I stay up until 6:00am... I just go with the flow now. Whatever works.

**Kweckduck** · July 26th, 2012, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight

I'm gonna give you a different perspective here... I'm a commercial construction worker (hvac)/not quite pro artist. I get up at 5:20am and hit the road. I don't get home until 6:30pm. I have three kids under the age of 8 and a wife so I can't even start painting until bedtime (9:00pm). I am fortunate to get 3-4 hours of painting time in. Sometimes I can't do any because my hands are too numb from working. I average about 4-5hrs of sleep a night during the week. Most of my painting/sleeping is done on the weekends if I'm not pulling overtime. I've been doing construction for 20yrs (I was homeschooled so I started fulltime at 14) now and if I don't get out I have another 36yrs of it to before I can retire... so it becomes a question of just how motivated you are to make art a career. Sure I don't get enough sleep and it might be bad for my health, but my job is somewhat dangerous and the idea of sitting safely at home with my family while doing art for a living sounds like a very sweet dream.

Ouch. I know what you mean though. My current job isn't bad, it's nice enough even. I could be content to settle in this job and focus my spare time on other things. But it's not what I love doing. You only live once, so you've got to give it your all.

We've been talking about getting kids as well. Planning to have the first one in about 2 years time. But it is hard to get over the idea that they are money and time consuming little buggers.

**Velocity Kendall** · July 26th, 2012, 06:50 AM

"Sometimes I wake up at 6:00am, sometimes I stay up until 6:00am... I just go with the flow now. Whatever works."

Yep same. If its sunny Ill sleep at night and go sit in the park.
I work for myself, sleep as much as I like. I like it a lot. Sunday morning is every day for all I care.
I don't want kids, they eat up decades and there's way more than enough humans in the world already. Do we really need another billion every 12 years?
Seriously, fuck breeding, working some shit job for 50 years and then dying.

**SpaceJelly** · July 26th, 2012, 01:17 PM

I'm in a similar situation to the OP and finding the time can be a pain sometimes. I used to get paranoid that I wasn't working hard enough or spending enough time drawing and I found that 6 hours sleep is the minium I need but really I need 8ish hours kip to function normally. In the end after a few months of subsiding off 4-5 hours sleep I realised that I wasn't doing my self any favours (and all the caffeine I was living off was gonna make me ill) and my art was suffering because I simply couldn't focus on what I was doing and what i was learning wasn't sinking in. Once I'd stopped kicking myself and started listening to my body things have improved at a steady rate, not as quick as I would like but I'm not hindering my self by living like a zombie. Now I just try to draw every day until I feel tired. Yeah, it bugs me that I can't draw for hours on end and I feel a bit of a pussy for needing lots of sleep but fighting it doesn't help so I'm trying to work around my body clock so to speak. I manage a few super late nights a week and catch up on other days. Seems to work OK.

Everyone is different and I know people who are fine after 3 hours sleep on a regualr basis. I think it's about finding a routine that suits you whatever it may be.

I also learned that living off Red Bull is seriously not the way to go. Especially after my colleagues noticed I was acting pretty bizzare

**HolyGrail** · July 27th, 2012, 05:24 PM

You certainly are not the only one with this problem, and the solution may be complicated. Do you get good sleep when you actually do go to bed? 5-6 is about average for someone who works full time and also enjoys developing their hobby skills.

If you are having trouble getting to bed, there are a few herbal supplements you can take, but as far as trying to squeeze everything in, it's just a matter of finding a schedule that works for you. I also get carried away on hobbies that cuts into my sleep time too.

Thread: Sleep and the lack thereof

Thread Tools

Display