I don't know who's advice to follow!?

[dylanj70]

Hey, I went to see my art teacher today to get his opinion on what I drew after studying some of Andrew Loomis's books, and he said that what I had done was wrong. He said that the proportions for faces was wrong because, while Loomis says that the nose=Nose-chin, He says that the nose is shorter than that. Who should I listen to?

(He also said some other things very similair, not just about the nose)

[bodied]

Just observe! Neither one are completely right. They are just guidelines. Not every person's nose is exactly where Loomis says. That's where the "life" part of life drawing comes in.

[Slothboy3000]

Observation of real people will hold the answers.

[vineris]

Look in a mirror. Measure your own nose. To double-check, measure a few other people's noses. If you are worried they won't let you, take some photographs of their faces straight-on and measure the photo.

The proportions are intended to help you draw "realistic" people, right? So whenever you get proportions that disagree, go back to real people and check. Arguing about who's right when there's like... two noses *right there* seems counterproductive.

[Andrew Sonea]

Loomis is right about the proportions; that being said I looked at your sketchbook and saw that you have not drawn the proportions correctly as Loomis has laid them out, so your teacher is right as well.

Take this image for example: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1335207242

You have made the distance from the bottom of the chin to the bottom of the nose two units. THe distance you made from the bottom of the nose to the brow line is then three units, and the distance from there to the hair line is roughly one and a half units. The eyes are also too high on the overall head--they should lie roughly half way up the head from top to bottom.

Some of your other faces in your sketchbook fit the correct proportions more closely, but some are also way off. I'm wondering if on some of them you are using the incorrect points to measure from. The Loomis method uses the bottom of the chin to the bottom of the nose as one unit, the bottom of the nose to the brow line (a point roughly where a unibrow would be, it is based on the bone structure beneath) as another equal unit, and the last equal unit is from the brow line to the hairline (which is the most variable since hairlines and foreheads change person to person, and hairlines recede with age). In some of the portraits you have drawn, the point you have defined as the brow line is not correct (you place it too low), and this will make the nose too long as your teacher states.

Keep in mind that not every face will perfectly fit Loomis' model. For someone beginning out like you he is a good start and will set a general model in your head to work from, but people's faces vary, will change with age, and you may want to change things ever so slightly anyhow to better capture an expression or particular face. Most faces however fall fairly close to what Loomis has shown in his proportions, so learn them well and be able to recognize when a face is drawn too extreme and is not natural.

Hope that helps!

[dylanj70]

Loomis is right about the proportions; that being said I looked at your sketchbook and saw that you have not drawn the proportions correctly as Loomis has laid them out, so your teacher is right as well.

Take this image for example: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1335207242

You have made the distance from the bottom of the chin to the bottom of the nose two units. THe distance you made from the bottom of the nose to the brow line is then three units, and the distance from there to the hair line is roughly one and a half units. The eyes are also too high on the overall head--they should lie roughly half way up the head from top to bottom.

Some of your other faces in your sketchbook fit the correct proportions more closely, but some are also way off. I'm wondering if on some of them you are using the incorrect points to measure from. The Loomis method uses the bottom of the chin to the bottom of the nose as one unit, the bottom of the nose to the brow line (a point roughly where a unibrow would be, it is based on the bone structure beneath) as another equal unit, and the last equal unit is from the brow line to the hairline (which is the most variable since hairlines and foreheads change person to person, and hairlines recede with age). In some of the portraits you have drawn, the point you have defined as the brow line is not correct (you place it too low), and this will make the nose too long as your teacher states.

Keep in mind that not every face will perfectly fit Loomis' model. For someone beginning out like you he is a good start and will set a general model in your head to work from, but people's faces vary, will change with age, and you may want to change things ever so slightly anyhow to better capture an expression or particular face. Most faces however fall fairly close to what Loomis has shown in his proportions, so learn them well and be able to recognize when a face is drawn too extreme and is not natural.

Hope that helps!

Oooh, Now I understand! I suppose that when I'm drawing faces and studying them etc, I shouldn't just follow Loomis' model and actually study the face as it is. XD I feel so stupid after reading the answers everyone's given me.

Thanks for the tip with the brow line aswell!

[Lyraina]

In addition to what was already said, I would suggest you take some photographs from faces you like and just check the theoretical proportions like vineris said - I did this once after studying Michael Hampton and it was really eye-opening!

[Arshes Nei]

In addition to what was already said, I would suggest you take some photographs from faces you like and just check the theoretical proportions like vineris said - I did this once after studying Michael Hampton and it was really eye-opening!

You also have to remember that photos can be altered for various reasons (celebrity photos are the biggest victims of )

....and sometimes lens distortion may come into play. Sometimes we don't correctly read perspective or angles as well.

It's an interesting exercise, but proceed with caution and understanding.

[JeffX99]

My nose turns out to be perfect. All other noses are some kind of abberation of proportion and shape.

[Lyraina]

You also have to remember that photos can be altered for various reasons (celebrity photos are the biggest victims of Fotoshop)

True enough - I honestly didn't even think of that. That they would even alter facial features. But still, I think it is valuable and interesting to experiment a bit with that - even with "perfected" features. Or just choose unmanipulated photos.
But thanks for pointing that problem with celibrity photos out!

Jeff: That's the right way to think

[dylanj70]

Lyrania- Ooh, I might try doing that! Like what you said on that post in your blog, I'm studying loomis and I'm finding some of the things he says quite complicated and hard to replicate XD

Arshes Nei- Hmm, I've heard about photoshopping things like that, Not sure which photo's to trust!

JeffX99- Hehehe...

[Arshes Nei]

True enough - I honestly didn't even think of that. That they would even alter facial features. But still, I think it is valuable and interesting to experiment a bit with that - even with "perfected" features. Or just choose unmanipulated photos.
But thanks for pointing that problem with celibrity photos out!

Jeff: That's the right way to think

How do you know if the photos are manipulated or not?

That's why you might want to take some yourself and look in a mirror too you'll start to see the difference and understand photography a bit better.

[Lyraina]

How do you know if the photos are manipulated or not?

That's why you might want to take some yourself and look in a mirror too you'll start to see the difference and understand photography a bit better.

If I took them myself I know.
Looking in the mirror is of course a good thing to do as well, I just wanted to suggest a way to "directly" apply the theories from books, which I found easier with actual lines at hand than trying to measure with eyes only. I don't think the exercises have to exclude each other.

[alesoun]

My nose turns out to be perfect. All other noses are some kind of abberation of proportion and shape.

Your nose is nowhere as cute, straight and short as mine. I win!