Daedelus Workshop Study Group

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the lack of feedback on your work. I'm still in the thick of it but I do appreciate all of your help.

Anyways, I'll chip in a few points..

eelis: For the vortex illustration. I don't see any Snake Monster? Am I missing something from another post? I just don't get the reference!? Right now the atmosphere you are setting up looks spot on, The values are working, now you just have to dive in and start rendering the image out. If I were you I'd create more chaos in the image and use the warp function liberally to bend the perspective around the vortex. Maybe consider tilting the horizon too. Also don't be afraid to use motion blur and whatever crazy effects that you can think of to enhance the mind bending aspect of a hole opening up in space. Check out guys like Jon Foster and Phil Hale for some inspiration. The knight looks akward. Does he need the flaming sword? because it's not necessary to the story as I see it. Does it have to be a raging inferno blade? Ask yourself what is his motivation? His pose suggests little and I agree that he appears to be looking at the bookshelf. Do some side studies of that character and explore this. The lower right looks a little dead, perhaps you an fill it up with more chaos and objects that will tell us more about what is in the room. Give us some clues as to what is really going on.

Eb: Good to see the Sethlan is going strong for you. Remember to stick to the brief..... I like the idea of a omni tool sword but is that really a Sethlan thing? I haven't settled on a silhouette yet, I want to see you explore different shapes and sizes, it just has to have a humanoid skeleton but there is a lot you can do with it. Think about adding to the universe. Right now ME already has it's space ninjas like Kai Lang and even Thane. If he is going to be a Martial / Tech character, why not give him something besides a blade? Like a space whip or space axe? I want you to have fun with this so do what ever you want, I just am trying to push you to justify your design decisions.

I don't know how much I can contribute to a group project but I'd be willing to pitch in when I can. I think you should pick a genre that you can sink your teeth into and be able to stick with for the long term. Or you can pick and IP that you like and expand on it like I did with Solomon Kane. We still have our long list of " Bucket List" pieces that we have not addressed yet so it's not like there is nothing for us to do

Cheers!

[David Keen]

Hey guys, here's a little more Sethlan work that I got done today. I'm pretty wrecked now though so I'll write something a little more extensive tomorrow. Thank you for your feedback Mike, it was helpful while I was putting together this second round of silhouettes. Talk soon.

[David Keen]

Hey guys, sorry for the short comment yesterday. It was a big one and after looking at my screen for so long I needed to get away from the computer and have a look out the window for a while. What are your thoughts on this Sethlan sketch? I was cheeky again and didn't ref the pose (no one was home to take another photo of me making silly faces) but to just play with the costume design the sketch still worked ok. I'm not satisfied with the ratio of the natural carapace to added armour pieces, I'd like to make it look more like the carapace is underneath and the armour has been used to strengthen the natural forms. I'll play with it more tomorrow and see how things progress. I'll also do a few studies of spider and insect heads to get some more prominent mandibles going.

I unfortunately didn't get any work done today as I had to the day job and then went and saw Brave at the cinema. It's a pretty decent Pixar film if you guys are into their other work but I'm not sure if it quite rivals some of the homeruns they've hit in the past.

I hope you guys are going well with all the work and if you get a minute maybe we could start reading some short stories for the group project or go back through our Bucket Lists and put some of those suggestions back up for consideration?

Cheers guys!

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Eb,

I felt the same way about The Brave. We saw it last saturday and was forced to sit in the front 3 rows and I'm pretty sure I missed two 5ths of the movie that took place on my periphery. My Daugther liked it though so that's good.

For the Sethlan: Right now he looks like a big Human with an Alien Face. His silhouette doesn't distinguish him from our race except from the shape of his head. Can you say the same for the other ME alien races? If he is going to be big then punch out his anatomy and push it further. You are not limited by star wars FX makeup from the 70's so have fun with it! I like this carapace/ exoskeleton idea. Why not make it his real skeleton but on the outside? How about instead of Ammo pouches made of material, he has cubbies and nooks in his body? I am just thinking out loud here. Also how did you resolve the air filtration from evolution problem?

Cheers!

[David Keen]

Here's another quick iteration on the Sethlan design. I'm pretty happy with this one and think this will be what I push on with and try and finish. It isn't hugely different from the previous version but I tried to push out the upper body proportions a bit and play with some more pieces jutting out to give him a more identifiable silhouette. I'd like to have gone further with it but I like this design and when really surveying the other races there are quite a few that are just slight twists on standard human anatomy. I really like that idea to incorporate some of the storage into the carapace pieces Mike, I'll play around with that a bit and see where I can pull out the anatomy a bit to provide more space. The filtration system will be a little more apparent in the more polished version but he has glands around the mandibles on his face that will serve as filters. I'd like to try and have something a little more rendered out to get crits at the workshop next week so now it's time to get this baby done and get away from it for a while.

That sucks about the seating for Brave! Nothing worse than craning your neck up the whole time and still missing loads of the film. The cinema we saw it at was tiny so that wasn't much of an issue, the room only seated about 30 people! Thanks for all the feedback on this piece man, it's helped me push the design way further and I'll keep working on my idea generation on the next one.

Where you at Eelis? Anything on the way?

[Eelis Kyttänen]

So, peeps, my computer died. It is probably just the power supply, but I don't want to invest on it now that I was going to buy a new computer anyway. I won't get one until I touchdown to vancouver though, so I will be without one for a month and week.

I will try to fetch my data from HDs tomorrow when I get to friend's place. I think everything should be alright with that. and all the files are intact. Tomorrow will tell. Should start on backupping everything though.

It is quite sad really though since it is basically a forced break from digital stuff. Atleast I have loads of time to hone traditional skills, but it still feels bad to lose so much time from the digital medium.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Fortunately I can pull the above back! The problem was in the power, and when I got that part changed it came back alive!

Time to start cloud-backup services though.

[David Keen]

Hey Eelis, what a massive scare! Is always good for getting you on the regular backup routine though. Take this whole thing as a sign to get outside and do some traditional work and give your computer a rest. You'll enjoy it! Sorry I've been out of action the last few days, I'm over in Sydney for my week long workshop I don't get internet for much of the day. I'll try and upload some stuff from the course soon but it'll probably have to wait till I have access to my scanner at home. Keep on truckin guys!

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Yeah, it was a real scare! Luckily everything turned out alright and I learnt my lesson. I'll definitely do some real traditional work after this one!

Ooh, the workshop lasts a whole week? That'll surely help ya by a load! Hopefully it is interesting as well.

I've been working daily on the anomaly picture, and it is just an inch from done. Some things are lacking there n here, like the closest bookshelf/not enough rubbish flying in the air close by etc...but it is soon done either way. This has truly been something that is way out of my comfort zone, so I have been focusing and trimming it really intensely. I gotta say though that I am a bit sad that I began it as just a speedpainting with low resolution. Thus the original reso is just 1200x720, but no can do.

'ere's the current iteration:



Imgur quality isn't that great, I will try to upload these on my own server in the future.

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Guys, It's been a while but I finally have a few minutes to come up for air before I dive back in so I thought I should post some feed back for you for a change.

eelis: I see the Snake now! lol. Seeing as this started out as a speedpaint/sketch. I think you accomplished what you set out to do. All the story elements are there and it is just a matter or refining and enhancing what you already have. I would encourage you to take this to the full illustration stage if you have the time. Otherwise, what is next?

Ebersol:
Have fun at the workshop and let's see if you come back with any new ideas that you can apply to the Sethlan.

So guys, have you submitted anything to the free portfolio reviews thread yet? You should if you get a chance. I did and we shall see if they take a look or not.

Back to work for me.
Once more Unto the breach!

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Aaaand ready:

http://eeliskyttanen.deviantart.com/...maly-312745956

I could've probably gone on, but frankly I wanted to move onto some other works already. Plus the sad resolution size didn't really give room for tight details. :/ Was a quite learning experience though! However, I believe this is either way almost as far as I can currently push a piece. It is a shame though because I know it could be vastly improved, but I don't know exactly how. Explored that for quite a while, but it didn't really yeild any big results.

What next, hmh! I think I am going to do more tight quarters. Probably not so character intensive, but with some characters nonetheless. I'll probably try to do quicky quick speedpaintings with bigger resolution than those thumbnail pics I did earlier. Will try to learn more about the core of an image and how the parts interact with each other. Will probably time myself so I don't drag on endlessly if I get hooked to some of 'em.

I would like to get such a review, but sadly I think there's too much jump in the quality between the last four of my original works currently. Shame to miss such a chance though.

Hopefully you'll get a review! Poke us here if ya get one.

Work work! I'll get back to my apartment hunting business too.

[David Keen]

Home sweet home! How have you guys been going? I'm glad to be back and it's good to see there has been a bit of stuff happening on here.

Eelis: I really like what you've done with this piece in the end man. The new pose makes way more sense and directs the eye towards the monster, as a bonus it looks cooler as well! You've done well in your exploration of texture but it could possibly have been done a little more softly around the anomaly monster. I find all that noise a bit distracting but the idea would have worked well with a softer application. While on the subject of the monster I'm just not sure about the choice of colour and value for him. I get that you were trying to make him appear as part of the fog in that area but by not having a dramatic looking enemy the piece loses a bit of impact in my mind. Seriously good stuff though man, for a guy who doesn't like characters the protagonist looks great! Armoured fantasy knights represent!

Wheels: I hope the submission of your recent commissions went well man, I'll be in touch via email soon.

The workshop in Sydney was pretty amazing. I was very impressed by the work and teachings of John Park, personally I'm not a huge Mech guy but the way he produced those images before my eyes was astounding. I've come back with a greatly renewed interest in getting my perspective knowledge really worked out properly and was pointed towards the Gnomon DVD's of Scott Robertson. It's about time I really learn't to draw..

The other artists were great to observe as well and seeing it all unfold over a week was really interesting, especially when all three guys worked very differently but ended up with similarly polished pieces. I'll talk a little more about what I picked up in the coming days but here is my newly re envisioned Sethlan concept that I started last night. Let me know what you think, I'll be trying to knock it off tomorrow night. Looking forward to getting back into working hard!

Talk soon.

ps. He's gonna have some crazy future tools and the like added and a building tool / weapon in that right hand.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Eb! I will answer to ya in-depth tomorrow! A quick comment on the sethlan though: it looks real good! Great design!

I will throw this one here quick, still heavy wip, especially the structure. There will be a small canoe in the right bottom which will make the story clear. Also some other elements on their way!

[David Keen]

I finished off the main body of the Sethlan today and moved on to working out the other techy bits. I think what I've given him is a huge help with communicating the engineering side of this races' personality, and assists him to fit into the Mass Effect universe more clearly as well. I'm gonna try and render the accessories up when I get home from work tomorrow and call this guy done and finally move on to something else!

Eelis: Looking pretty good so far man, as you move on with the building maybe you could push a more specific architectural style? This would be good practice for doing historical period pieces but you could try and mix it up by finding something that will contrast well with this overgrown forest scene like gothic architecture or an american civil war fort? Just a thought to try push you for more varied looks in the buildings. Keep chipping away dude!

p.s. I'm gonna colour shift his hands to match the rest of the design tomorrow.

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Fellas,

Great work from both of you. I'm swamped with deadlines so this is why I'm not as active and I don't expect to come up for air much in the next month or two. I'll still keep you posted off forum though


Eelis: This is your best piece to date. Only two things stand out for me and hat is the perspective where the water meets the building and the giant trees in the foreground. For the trees, you might consider adding some more regular sized foliage in order to give the viewer a better sense of scale. Right now it is unclear if the big trees are just Really Big or just really close to the viewer. For the water line, it just looks off and I'm not sure if it is the perspective of where the lighting. Other wise, looking Gooood!

Eb: I hear ya on the Sethlan dragging on forever. Next time we will have to give ourselves a due date or be more motivated to finish sooner. I like where you are going and I want to see where you take it for the final rendering. Because he is an Alien you can get away with bad anatomy and one never knows if the Big hands are done on purpose or not. When I look at him in the "Big Picture" he's looking fine and the idea is coming across as planned. Let's see the next iteration.

That's it from me,

Cheers!

[David Keen]

Done and done guys! I'm glad to have this one all done and dusted. Let me know what you guys think, I'll start something fresh tomorrow.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Ey! I am just chipping in quick, I promise to comment on your sethlan in depth tomorrow eb!

This one is done. I couldn't push some parts further because I screwed up the resolution. Note to self: Ampe up the resolution if you get hooked to a speedpainting

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Alright!

Glad to hear your workshop went well Eb. I hope I am able to attend some workshop/convention too next year, they teach ya a lot! Did they have portfolio reviews there?

As for your Sethlan, I quite like it. The design is far more better and unique now. Just the feet bug me a bit, why that kind of bird predator claws? In my opinion they look kinda divided from the rest of the designs, since the hands are humanish. I really like how you enlarged the hands though.

Also, watch the lighting. It is sort of diffused now on this piece and there isn't enough distinction between hard and soft lines. Otherwise it is neat! So, what next?

@wheel: Thanks a LOT for the notion about the perspective. I knew something was fishy there, but you nailed it. The building's starting point was too high, and I lowered it down a bit. Should be better now.

As for the tree size issue, I hope the figures helped to sort that out. I would have really liked to add more foliage, but to be honest... I didn't know how! Looked up alot of refs and stuff but it never really dawned to me, so I had to rest it.

All in all, I really liked how this turned out. The building is a bit monotone, but I think those small scratches and things I shizzled on it bring it out enough.

@eb again: I actually did check out some indian temples for this one and used them mildy. However, I still feel that in the end I didn't give it enough charisma. You can't really tell at all what it is! Next time I promise to think all this stuff through and REALLY integrate that stuff into it.

Cheers!

[David Keen]

Thanks for the feedback Eelis. I hadn't thought about the feet like that before but that does make some sense to me. I might look at reworking them as I had a couple of other changes I'd like to implement. I like where you finished up with your most recent piece. You've done really well in integrating some more diverse elements into the piece and constraining the composition to a more limited field of view. I'm looking forward to seeing your next round of architecture stuff!

Here is the start of a illustration with a couple of nasty fellas sneaking up on a female protagonist. I'd like to shoot some ref for the antagonists, as they're looking pretty uninspired at the moment. Any thoughts on general composition stuff and the like?

[David Keen]

Hey guys, the speakers from the CDW in Sydney have put out a brief for the attendees to do so I'm gonna switch gears and try and get that done by the 23rd. There is plenty of time so hopefully I'll get it finished but getting vehicle polished up nicely is going to be a challenge for me. I've copied the brief below so you guys can have a look and it keep it in mind when you're critiquing me.


1. Brief: Please design a vehicle/mech/or machine for a character that is looking for a lost treasure. The character is a pirate, always on the search of some new riches/finds. His goal is to
find these treasure using his device as a way to detect/navigate/travel.


For this assignment: I would like everyone to create a small back-story for your designs.

A. Please come up with a research page for your character
- Please do a set of thumbnails
- Refine 1-2 character designs
- Finalize "1" character design in color

B. Please come up with a research page for your vehicle
- Please do a set of thumbnails
- Refine 1-2 vehicle designs
- Finalize "1" vehicle design and please include design "call-outs"

I've decided that I'm going to go with a near future time period and I'd like to get a bit of an oriental feel in the decorative elements of the design. The setting of my world is that there are floating mountainous regions upon which ancient tribes built tombs for their great leaders. My pirate is going to be a bit of a roguish treasure hunter who'll be flying up and raiding these tombs while fighting off the corporate competition who're seeking these artefacts as well. The setting is a little thin at the moment but I wanted to do a flying machine rather than a traditional mech or spaceship so I'll try and flesh it out a little more to strengthen the purpose of the design.

So far my favourite silhouettes are #22 and #24 but I'm open to suggestions from you guys. The line drawing page was an attempt to explore the 3D shapes of a couple of the silhouettes (so please ignore my wonky perspective at this stage), I'm not very satisfied with any of these interpretations of the silhouettes and will be doing at least one more round of these before picking a favourite. So far I haven't started anything for the character component but will try and jot some stuff down while at work tomorrow.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

[David Keen]

Here's an update on the vehicle design from the other day. I didn't get a chance to work on it today but will try and knock it off tomorrow. If you guys could give me some feedback on how this one is looking I'd really appreciate it. Cheers!

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Guys,

So Eb you asked for some feedback on this one and I think it is great to see you doing some ID and Tech. I have a couple of practical problems with the design however. I find myself wondering, how does it land? What kind of propulsion does it use? How do the thin bars between the 2 main structures support the weight? What is the space between the structures for?

Have you answered these questions? A big part of ID is solving these problems and it might be worth your while to go back and Check out the Feng Zhu tutorials and listen to his lecture. He has a couple of good ones like the Snow Walker and there is some kind of Mech Truck that are pretty informative.

Other than that, the perspective appears to be correct and the design seems to be coming along. Another suggestion may be to have some kind of windshield in the cockpit to help the pilot out a bit. Maybe think of Reffing WW1 Bi Planes. I dont' know if it is the color or shape or what but I am immediately thinking Sand Crawler from Star wars when I look at this design. huh?

On a side note but related. You mentioned that you were going for an oriental influence with this design and I recently came across a neat article on the Chinese Wheelbarrow. Apparently it is the most efficient Wheelbarrow design there is and it looks pretty whacky compared to the standard " Western" model. Anyways, check it out, maybe it will influence you.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Yeah, I agree with mike. I saw the concept before reading your description, and the first thought was "oh, it is somekind of an industrial manufactoring machine!"

(I have to say that it would be rather goody design for such an apparatus )

On a personal note I had a imagination-blackout after that latest forest work, so I did a few studies instead. A scene from LOTR and then some fancy still lives. Sadly the lotr study didn't go so well, so I won't post it yet. I am going to revisit some other scene from lotr though, because I have to admit it was loads of fun!

I just finished a creature linework done with pencils O.o. I'll probably post it someday if I get around to shadow it.

[David Keen]

Hey guys, thanks very much for the feedback the other day. I've thought about the points that you raised and they've been a great help in the progression of the piece. Mike, your points about landing, propulsion and the windshield were particularly helpful and I've tried to address two of those problems. I'm looking at adding some additional smaller thrusters for assistance with landing, ala harrier jets but will have to see how much I can get done in the time allotted. The chinese wheelbarrow is a pretty nifty looking design, I'd have loved to have displayed the oriental influence more prominently in the piece but I was glad that chinese sailing ships served as great inspiration for the shape of my speeder.

I hadn't thought at all about the sandcrawler having some similarities to the speeder. I imagine it's because they both have that blocky look and a similar palette as you mentioned. But mine flies dammit! Take that Jawa's!

How're you guys going with your work at the moment? Eelis have you recovered from your mental block? I'd love to have a look at the creature linework you did. I hope you guys are well and thanks again for the feedback.

p.s. the landing great was just blocked in at the end of the day, I've got to fix up the lighting and finish detailing that area before calling it done.

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Guys,

"Outiniee"!

I can't help but feel like there is a bit of Ralph McQuarrie going on in this piece Eb. I think it's your best AD yet so be proud, learn from it and build on it for the next piece. I don't know if you are required to do Orthos' for this one or not but it would also be a worth while exercise. I would go adding anything more at this late stage but I would encourage you to put more consideration into the functionality of the vehicle into your next design. Always keep in mind that in good design " Form follows function", not the other way around. Check out this site for some interesting design ideas http://www.tuvie.com/

For a crit, some of your perspective is off here and there. For these types of things, if one line is off, it can mess with everything. I suggest that you set up a grid and set you VP's and Horizon line and always keep it visible while you sketch out the image. Not all of us are Feng Zhu and can eyeball perspective perfectly. Also the turbines look flat as if they were painted on instead of 3 dimensional surfaces. Lastly, what about this vehicle suggests that it is a pirate vessel? To me, it looks more like an industrial machine. I don't have a problem with plain, The real world is plain and rarely will you see more than a manufacturers logo on heavy equipment or vehicles of any type. The only thing is that for entertainment, they tend to gravitate towards Michael Bay retarded ideas instead of good design and the flashiest piece tends to win out over the best designed piece. If you want to win the contest you might want to consider Jazzing it up. Personally I hate saying that. I appreciate good design and I feel that skill and integrity has been diluted and overwhelmed by the latest fad. Most of these contests including the CA Ch0w's etc are more like popularity contests and the best design rarely wins out over the flashiest one. It pisses me off but it's a fact and that's life. Sorry for the Rant. I do that from time to time

Eelis: Post up the pencils. Don't worry about tone. One thing that helps if you have a block is to get the hell away from art. Go for a walk, visit a friend, live your life. Have some new experiences and they will inspire you eventually. It never fails. Besides, shouldn't you be packing or something?

Cheers fellas!

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Eyey!

Eb: Nice progression! I still have kinda hard time figuring out how your vehicle moves :/ I took the first glance again without reading the description, but couldn't figure it out! Some effects that would enhance the wheel that it is a flying machine could be in order. It really looks industrial-themed now, so if that was your goal you have done real good job! Not to mention I really, really like your rendering here. Some perspective probs like Mike said, but otherwise goody! I always have some hard probs with geometric spaces like this.

Eb&Wheel: Yeah, I think I overcame the block today. Sketched a few quick speedpaint starts and will probably take them to a speedpaint finish tomorrow. I would have followed Mike's notion about gaining some new real life experiences if I hadn't been a bit sick. So what worked in the end was that I bought a few, graphically innovative and creative titles like psychonauts, the longest journey and braid. That combined with the pencil works, creatures and landscapes kinda lifted the veil. Good to do some imagination stuff now too then, studies tend to be a tad bit stale.

As for the linearts, yes Mike, I think you are right and I will just ditch the toning for now and focus on the lineart bit, since I have some probs with that. I will post them as soon as possible. Checking tomorrow if camera pictures are good enough, if not I will probably have to wait a bit till I get to a scanner.

Ooh, and packing you say Mike? Yeah, I guess I should be! Just scraping those last dimes off from work and getting everything else ready and I am off to that 8000 km trip!

Cheers

[David Keen]

Hey guys, thanks so much for the crits on the speeder concept. I'll reply in full tomorrow but I wanted to put these up here before I go to sleep. I've also copied over the setting for my designs.

For this brief I decided to explore a near future setting with a familiar industrial aesthetic. The planet our pirate is pillaging and plundering has a long history and archaeological discoveries are still common. The planet is subject to a unusual anomaly, small areas are exposed to fluctuating gravitational fields which causes large masses of earth to float hundreds of metres above sea level. These suspended islands were the subject of much admiration by the early inhabitants of the planet who incorporated it into their religion and viewed the sites as sacred ground. Cities were built just outside the affected areas and enormous towers were constructed to provide the priests with access to the holy sites. When a great king died he would be buried upon the floating islands and his tomb would be filled with holy manuscripts and great treasures of his time. Modern society still observes some of the principles that were set by their ancestors religion so the tombs have been left largely undiscovered and undisturbed, but this encourages a wildly profitable black market for smugglers and pirates.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Ey!

Nice to hear some backstory there eb, makes the designs feel alot more liveable.

The character is rolling rather nicely. There seems to be a big hand syndrome though, and the forearm could be tad bit too long. Otherwise, good!

So yeah, as I mentioned yesterday I got back in the business. Shizzled up this little speedpaint in a hour or so. I still seem to have some probs with contrast, gotta work on it.

And, when in doubt, paint puddles! (or lakes, water, ocean...you name it! Horizontal lines!)



Oh, and eb, I will try to remember to answer to your email today.

[David Keen]

Hey Eelis, sorry for the very late reply! I like your most recent speedpaint, nice colour and good job implementing multiple focal points. I think a few more rocky outcrops and similar areas of interest might help break up the landscape on future paintings of similar subjects. Good stuff though man, what's next on the cards?

I've been seeing so much environment stuff recently that I wanted to have a try and see what I could whip up. It was really fun to just play around with shapes and not have and real restrictions of subject or setting. I'm gonna try and do a few more sketches like these over the coming week.

[David Keen]

Here's another couple of these quick environments, both about 30 mins to finish. The orange seascape one was really tricky and I ended up trying another iteration which failed even more horribly than this one. Still fun to play with colour and texture more liberally than usual.