Daedelus Workshop Study Group

[David Keen]

Here's my influence map guys. Great idea Wheels, it was great fun to look at the work of my favourite artists and rediscover the time in my life I found their work and figure out the influence they've had over my artistic life. As with Wheels' my images are arranged so that the largest images indicate the artists who have had the greatest effect on me.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Righto! I am back!

I'll be pushing the changes in the overall space of the thumbnail right now, I'll also try to improve the architecture of the tower. Architecture interests me greatly, and it's something I would love to learn more from. Would've been probably one of the possible choices of schools if not for my abysmal grades from math.

Thanks for giving me a bit of freedom with the design, otherwise I'll try to follow you up as best as I can. I'll be scribbling some sketches tomorrow.

@wheel, shame to hear you couldn't play it more! It's an interesting game in many ways. I'll check out the Loomis' book on the subject too, never hurts to have varying perspectives on such a debatable subject!

@Eb Thanks! I am hoping so too. I'm probably trying to nail some freelancer gigs as soon as possible, meaning hopefully on the fourth year, earlier if a miracle happens and my quality somehow bursts up so that I can illustrate a professional-looking portfolio. Afterwards I'll have to check if there's any nice studio-work options available somewhere. As wheels mentioned, it would really give me loads of experience.

But all in all, at the moment I would just like to become a full-time freelancer at some point in time. Can't resist the urge to be able to move wherever I wish! *wink

Anyway, I'll also try to make up the influence chart tomorrow. Will most probably contain looooads of weird finnish names from our own realists. Stay tuned!

[Wheeljack18]

Hey guys,

@Eelis. Looking forward to seeing that influence chart and those obscure Finnish painters you mention. Don't get ahead of yourself and pile up expectations so soon. You haven't even hit first year at post secondary yet so you have a lot of time. The key is to enjoy university and get the most out of it. ( BC Girls are hot )Learn as much as you can and try to direct that learning with a career in mind and you will be successful. As Bruce Lee once said "Don't focus only on the moon or else you will miss all that heavenly glory..."

If you are interested in Architecture, Loomis has some good tricks on translating blue print to 3-d as well as I picked up a good primer book called Architectural Drawing Course by Mo Zell. Another resource are used book stores. Most people nowadays draw using software such as auto cad so old school drafting is becoming a lost art. I collect old art "How To" books and there are tons of books that were published on the subject in the 70's and 80s collecting dust in old book stores. It's one of the only places where you can learn that stuff. Another resource are text books from architectural schools. You don't have to go to the school to buy the textbook. I did a couple of architectural renderings back in the day for a marketing firm translating floor plans to 3d. Super Dry stuff. Anyways, I had a buddy who works for a builder checking code and he lent me his textbook which really helped me iron out the kinks. Architectural drawing really just boils down to good perspective and in many cases, not even that. It's all about practice, which I'm sure we'd all love to see and help you out with.That's what this group is all about.

@Eb: Can't wait to see those practice drawings. If I have my way, Loomis will be bigger than Bridgman on your influence map. He's a much better teacher. So is your influence map chronological? I ask because to me, it's funny that you would mention Jim Lee after Alex Ross. I wouldn't have guessed that Marko and Feng were such big influences on your work.

Mass Effect: Not being able to play vids for a long time is actually a blessing because they are a major time sink. Also, they are designed to be addictive and in fact create elevated levels of dopamine in the brain. There are a few IP's that I can't say no to like the Metal Gear series and before RE5, Resident Evil. I try to play lots of games to stay current and up on my pop culture. As a side anecdote, back in 05 I interviewed for a local game company that made products for the gameboy. During the interview he asked me what games I was playing at the moment and I told him MGS3 which had only come out 3-4 months prior. He looked at me and said "Haven't you played anything more current?" WTF!
So I guess the moral of the story is play lots of games but don't let them steal your life.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

@Wheel: yeah, I guess I am just a planner like that. I don't stress about it and often I work way too much to achieve the goal, but the sadist in me likes that! Though, all of us have our borders.

That quote from Lee is great. And indeed, I'll probably get the most out of uni if I just keep in mind what I want out of it. Results arrive tomorrow or tuesday most probably, so I am really on my toes.

Oh yes, they might be hot, but are they intelligent? Hopefully I'll find some like minded people, because EC seems to be rather more artsy than I thought! But I ain't really worried about it.

Thanks for the tips on the architecture, I'll definitely see to it.

Speaking of architecture, I had to let out some steam today because I haven't been able to get the tower's background finished up (in thumbnail) yet, so I scribbled up some sketches and came out with a heavy WIP that might as well be the first cityscape I'll pull off!

It's easy to refine the city itself from that with the correct highlights and stuff, so I am focusing on clouds at the moment. Will probably try to hit this style: http://andreasrocha.deviantart.com/g...et=24#/d2xwbix

I can spend ages tweaking those though, so let's see!

@Games: I think that like with everything, self-discipline is the way here. Some games can be pretty darn hooking, but with right mindset you can get out of it easily. For example, I played WoW in the past but never had troubles quitting

Mm, that MSG incident sounds lame. Could it have been that he meant the actual game series (which is pretty old) and not the game?

Anyway, I'll make the influence sheet right now.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Alright, here's my influence chart! It has no particular order or composition.

[Wheeljack18]

Bob F@#$ing Ross! YES! I love Bob Ross. He was the man. I'm old enough to have watched his show on PBS and I even have one of his books! BOB Freakin Ross.... He makes it look so effortless with his happy trees.

Those other painters look interesting as well as the old school Disney work. I'm intrigued.

You'll be fine at university and as long as you keep your "eye on the ball" regarding your end goal. Things will work out. BC Girls....I married one and yes many are intelligent. But it is just like anything, some are, some are not. Vancouver is a Big place so if you don't hook up with like minded folks at EC, you'll find them some where else. You may not fit in with the Artsy Fartsy types but you can still learn a lot from them and in many cases how NOT to learn from them. Get me?

It's too early to crit on the image you posted but I think it is off to a good start. Have you looked at any of Feng Zhu's tutorials on the subject of environments? I think they would be right up your alley and give you some useful tips on workflow etc.

The MGS incident WAS totally Lame. The guy was just power tripping and if it happened again I'd have a different response but that's business for you. Some clients are great to work with and others, not so much. Just learn from the bad experiences.

Keep Posting guys!

Hey Reb where did you go?

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Yeah, I would really want to learn his wet on wet technique with oils someday. The thing I can't stand with traditional painting is the excessive waiting period while the paint dries.

Yeah, you got inside expertise on the matter! *wink, I'll trust that.

Understood! Gotta give them credit for the creative process-thinking which is an important part of the image too. You can always learn the tech, but creativity is a whole different subject.

Yeah, no problem. I'll try to bring out a finished (in my eyes) version later this week.

Mm, Zhu. I am not really a big fan of his environment works. The ID stuff is great though! I haven't checked his tuts out excessively though, maybe I'll give it another shot.

Sorry for a bit of inactivity. Wrapping out the final bits of high school at the moment, so that has kept me busy. Just a week more though and then that's finito!

[Wheeljack18]

Not much but a few doodles working on those characters. Your thoughts my Art Directors?

[Wheeljack18]

Shaking off some rust. Here is another round of sketches.

[Wheeljack18]

Hey boys, what gives? You loosing steam on me?

[David Keen]

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of contact for the last little bit. How's everyone going on the Mass Effect assignment? The cupboard is looking a little bare at the moment..

@Wheels: Sketches are looking good mate. I'm liking the look of the character you're developing, four arms are always better than two! I'm not quite sure how he'd be able to use each forearm independently though, in the next phase could you draft the arm structure up in closer detail and show the anatomy behind it? His facial structure is cool but I think you could push the mouth and jaw a little bit to make him look a little more intelligent. As it stands it looks like his mouth could only operate like a fishes, which communicates gold fish memory to me more than anything else. I think you could probably push the filtering of toxic atmosphere a little more overtly as well, that could be an interesting task to combine with working on the mouth. You've done a good job so far to evoke the feel of the Mass Effect universe in his armour design, it fits in well. I quite like the spacing of his toes on without boots on though and would love to see you incorporate some of that unique physiology into the boots a little more. Really solid so far though mate, just keeping building it up!

I'm gonna have a play around with this topic now for a bit of relaxation time so I'll throw something up later.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Sorry, I am still fixing the chaos that arrives alongside with the final exams. I'll try to sketch something when the time permits, but officially I'll be completely free (apart from a job) in two weeks.

[David Keen]

Here's some really quick sketches just for fun before bed. I'll knock up another round of them tomorrow with a little more thought and research.

@Eelis: Good luck with your exams mate!

[Wheeljack18]

Back to the drawing board! I have lost steam on this baby and to be frank I've been half assing my effort. Partly because I've been distracted with client work and personal stuff. Anyways, I've got a page of quick head sketches similar to what Eb just put up. Take a look and narrow down what you want to see and I'll do another round of iterations based off of that feedback. I imagine that in 2, 9, 8, 10 the creatures evolved a filter of some sort directly on the head like gills, or moss or hair or like what a whale has for a mouth. Otherwise, I envision that the filter system would be some type of garment a la Quarrian or an implant type filter. If these creatures employ physical enhancement via genetic or cybernetic technology then my idea is that for the arm, the aliens use a ball joint mechanism at the elbow with a cloned and reduced arm pairing. This in effect doubles efficiency and manual dexterity when performing electronic maintenance etc. Also he can hold up to 4 guns or 2 rifles at a time! How awesome is that?

I also did some old school pen sketches of guns and potential guns. Just trying to get back to basics and generate some ideas. Most of the guns are inspired by WW2 designs. Pick out some elements and I will continue to develop these too as I need more things like weapons design in my portfolio.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Guys! I'll just leave this here quickly, I AM GOING TO VANCOUVER! Will be back later.

[Wheeljack18]

Congrats Eelis! When do you plan on making the move?

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Thanks man. Most probably around the middle of August.

Do you know yet if you'll be moving there too?

Thanks Eb, I can kinda be more loose with these exams now though so I can hopefully boost a few sketches of that alien species tomorrow.

[David Keen]

@Wheels: This batch is a huge step up from the last round, you've got some pretty exciting, varied designs here. I'd like to see you push 8, 9, 11, 13 & 15. I'd like to see you solve the problem of atmosphere filtration with a natural system if possible, I think that it presents an tricky design issue which will give you some mental exercise. I really like the idea for the arm, I'm looking forward to see a more anatomical study explaining how the ball joint mechanism will fit with the muscles and tendons of the two arms. More guns is always better!!

Speaking of guns your sketches for those are looking good. My favourites are 10, 14, 8, 4 & 16. The WWII influence is great and gives your designs a solid place to start from but I think they could use a quick round of Mass Effectin to fit in with the rest of the universe a little more, unless you wanted to make a series of guns that are specific to our new alien race? If you did decide to go down that path have a go at inventing a single weapon that is really unique and will take advantage of all the limbs that the Sethlans have. It may result in nothing interesting but you could come across a really fun, crazy design.

Keep it up buddy

@Eelis: Congratulations mate! That is fantastic, I'm very happy for you

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Eelis, No word yet on weather or not I'll be living in Van in August but I will be in the Area for about 2 weeks in the middle of August for a family wedding so maybe we can hook up during that time and I can show you around a bit.

Eb: Thanks man, Like I said, the previous stuff was not my best effort. I'll work up some more comps for you soon mr AD! Regarding the guns, You like all the guns that look like ME Guns! I'll work on those too. I like #5 which is a Delistle Carbine, a lesser known but super cool silenced .45 from ww2. I want to see if I cannot incorporate some design elements from that as well.

Lets see some more work from you boys here. This thread is starting to look like the wheeljack show.

[Wheeljack18]

Here's another round of head sketches. I took the 5 that Eb liked and did 5 more variations on that head. Take a look and narrow it down for me boys. Also, i have a sketch page explaining my idea for how the arm works. Fire me off some ideas about the attachment points to give them more character. It might not be necessary if the character is wearing a suit or clothing. But, it always pays to figure these things out.

Your thoughts?

For the faces, I am thinking that his species evolved some kind of filter over the orifices that lead to the lungs. Maybe some gills, a mesh filter, some kind of membrane or sponge. Hair in our noses is meant as a filter so I took it a little further with some ideas.

[David Keen]

Hey mate, loving the progress you're making on this assignment. So far my favourites of this batch are: 1D, 2E, 3A, 4D & 5A - D. I think that #5 is your strongest overall set but there are some good ones in each. Did you have any favourites?

As far as the anatomy of the arm goes I like what you've done so far but would be interested in seeing a tiny shift in another direction. I found your original description of a primary arm which I would imagine having similar anatomy to ours and then a secondary arm that was cloned and attached a pretty cool concept. As it is it looks like the secondary arm would always have to been on the opposite axis to the primary arm, could you explore a way for the arms to move completely independent of each other? Great stuff dude!

I've started doing some concepts for my upcoming series of paintings, so if you guys could keep an eye on my sketchbook and give me some feedback that would be fantastic!

[Wheeljack18]

He EB thanks for the feedback but as an AD you need to give me more regarding the heads. I want you to narrow it down to one head and give me a couple of suggestions about where you want me to go with it etc. Otherwise I could spend forever just noodling over the heads and not making any meaningful progress. You are the Art Director on the ME franchise, what do you want to see with this guy?

My favorites are 1E, 2B, 3C,3D,4A-E and 5C. At least those are the ones that are piquing my interest the most. The 4 lineup has some nice textures going on that are interesting.

So for the arm you want more organic as opposed to mechanic? I think the inherent problem is that the division is at the elbow. Our forearms only rotate and pivot so much in real life where as at least with a mechanical device, this guy can now rotate both the forearm and the elbow 360 degrees for both arms. As a race of technical minded people, I think that would be a beneficial upgrade. Imagine how much more one could accomplish with their hands?I don't want to go with two arms a side as that would bring him into a realm that has already been done. The joint can be skinned over and/or miniaturized. Your thoughts?

Also, what do you think of the two thumbs per hand concept. I think it goes well with the 360 rotation because he could grasp and manipulate pretty much anything from any angle.

Why don't you toss up your concept ere for us to crit. I think it fits into our mandate as a study group and again, I'm getting a little lonely here by being the only poster in a while.

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Righto, sorry again for the delays! Let's see.

You can really notice my inexperience with faces here, because none of them has an actual face! I might continue 1. or 7. These were just a real quick weird idea throwoffs! The others don't really fit ME in any way.

Good job wheel! Glad you are keeping this active even though we haven't been able to contribute very much.

@eb Thanks! Also, post those concepts up! Would love to see 'em.

@wheel: Alright, that would be great indeed. Let's keep it in mind.

Offtopic: I'll be getting some oils later this week (have only done acrylics before) I am planning to buy an oil sketchbook instead of canvasses and such, and do a large plein air series of my hometown + surroundings before I leave in August. I'll try to remember to post some of 'em here.

[Wheeljack18]

Good to see you posting here Eelis! I didn't know there was such a thing as an oil sketchbook. What do you use as a dryer and how long will it take? Me, I usually use Turpenoid as a thinner and dryer and my work is usually dry in 24-48 hours if not sooner. But for a sketchbook, how do you close the pages when it is wet?! Once you go to oils you will never want to use acrylics again but, I have seen some interesting mixed media pieces that use acrylic as an under painting. Also, you should try picking up gouache. You can do pretty much everything in gouache that you can do in either oils and Acrylic and it dries fast. Really good for plein air work.

For your concept sketches. Good first attempt. Perhaps you might find it useful to instead Not focus on the faces and just focus on the silhouette of the creature. Check out Feng Zhu's site. he has an excellent demo on the subject there that you should find useful. Read through EB's brief on the alien race and just scribble out shapes. Let your imagination roll and have some fun with it. Post those up and we'll give you some more direction from there. Sound good?

[David Keen]

Here are a couple of pieces I've been working on, you'll probably recognise one Wheels . I'm uploading these images from another computer and can now see that the brightness and colour balance on my main rig must be way off as the dragon appears really muddy and dark. I'll have to take a look at that issue tomorrow. Do you guys know any relatively easy ways to calibrate monitors?

@Wheels: Hey buddy, let's lock down the direction of the Mass Effect assignment so you can proceed. I think you should push on with 5C, that one is the most striking of the batch for me. As far as the joint goes if your going down the mechanical path then I think you should reveal that to the viewer. I'd also think about adding a few other mechanical augmentations to tie the theme more cohesively across the character. I know that you mentioned a mechanical solution for the filtering apparatus a while ago but I wanted you to try and tackle that organically as it seemed a difficult problem to solve. I agree that two thumbs works well with the current direction you're heading and will continue to create unique features for this creatures race. I'll try and be more decisive in the future to avoid the never ending sketch process. I'd now like you to put together a full sketch of the figure combining all the elements you've been working on and we'll go from there.

@Eelis: Good to see your sketches on this one mate. I agree with Wheels that starting off with some silhouettes is the way to go. Once you've got a silhouette going I've found it's generally a lot easier to fill in the rest of the features and you may be surprised by the random stuff that will appear.

[Wheeljack18]

I knew that you'd go for 5C! I just knew it! Don't you think it will make him look more like a villan? He's pretty scary... I'll try to work up some more comps soon. lol

Re: Monitors. Just google it and I believe there is a tutorial on this website on the subject. Just search it out and you should find it. It could also be the other computer monitor that is off. I personally hate looking at my work on other pcs because the variance is so wide it's discouraging. Laptops are the worst.

What do you want regarding a crit on these pieces. Are they studies? What is your end goal with these? Have you looked at the book " The skillful Huntsman"? Its a process/ concept design book that you might find inspiring on this subject.

[Wheeljack18]

Ok EB,

Here is a couple more head sketches based on 5C. Does he look like a Sethlan to you? Any ideas on Color or the Hair? What direction do you want me to go Mr. AD?

[Wheeljack18]

Hey Boys, Check this out. Wizards of the coast is holding an Art Test for their newest iteration of D&D. I think we should all give it a shot and make it a priority here on Deadelus. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Feature.a...eature/arttest
Your thoughts?

[Wheeljack18]

So here is another round of the Sethlan. This time we see his body. I'm thinking he is a worker/fighter. He carries around tools and wires so he can bypass doors or cut through bulkheads. Kind of like a combat Engineer skill set. Your thoughts, suggestions? how can I push it further and make him more interesting?

[Eelis Kyttänen]

Höp! Darn, I had missed the brief! I'll work out some silhouettes tomorrow if I just can.

I'm probably fetching an oil primed pad so I can rip the pages out. If I get that sketchbook thingie you can separate the pages by some clips, or so I heard. I'll do the paintings real small and keep a white border around then so it is easier to handle. Not too small, but so that I can focus on the overall image instead of composition.

Good notes on mixed media & gouache. I'll definitely keep on trying new mediums, but for now I want to prepare myself for some extensive mountain plein airs when I get to Vancouver.

I might be a little slow with digital stuff because of the oil painting, but I am still rolling, slowly but surely!.

I am also hoping to be able to write some views on your sketches tomorrow (thanks for posting your concepts, eb!), still running little busy here.

@wheel: Darn, that stuff from artorder seems great! However, I am rather sure that I can't attend it full time for even just for the crits here. :/

I would like to propose however, that the next subject after this character one would be that test 2 with those exact guidelines, if it is okay for ya.