Need help my parents are insane.

[DreadStunLock]

This is a bit childish, but I am having a crisis.

Me and my parents just had a fight, I am 17 years old and I got 1 year to apply for a University.

I selected: http://www.futureworks.co.uk/game-design-course.html

They tell me, it's fake, when I was there and it's applyable by UCAS, means it will be goverment funded.

Now, let's jump straight to the point.

I want to be a Concept Artist, and work in the entertainment industry, be it on a film or a game. I want to create concepts like monsters, characters, heroes, you know Feng Zhu type of stuff.

WHAT QUALIFICATIONS DO I NEED FOR THAT?

They are telling me I should go to Oxford or Hogwards or Howard or whatever the crap that is, I tell them, to be a Concept Artist you need to be fucking good at drawing and be a good designer, they don't believe me they say I need good grades, they are telling me, that employees who will hire me will want to see my CV and my grades before viewing my Portfolio.

I believe that portfolio is my grade, and none of the industries will give 2 damns about what college I went to, or even if I went to any at all, or even if I have a degree... Please dear god help me


EDIT:

http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/courses/underg...?CourseId=GW42

This is the course they want me to do, which has nothing to do with Concept art or drawing

[Arshes Nei]

First off your parents are not insane. I know you're 17 but, think of your parents perspective. You are 17 and your parents just want what's best for you even if they may try to live vicariously through you.

Second take a look at this thread: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=102315

If you can go to those schools and see the facilities, it stops a lot of guessing

Now, are you drawing now? You have stuff to post? While age is not a factor, putting off drawing "till I go to school because they'll teach me all I know" is not a good idea. The success will depend on your drive. ART IS HARD WORK.

[DreadStunLock]

I don't have much to post, because I have other people to criticise my work, but I am working hard, I don't go out with my friends, I go out to draw stuff from nature. (Nature is the best designer), I don't go out with my friends to a party to socialize, I stay in and do work.

I don't take breaks during college time, I draw my own things if there is nothing to do. I always strive for top marks, but my parents are pissing about grading, and grading doesn't mean fuck to me, noone cares about that stuff, my portfolio is my grade, and I just want to know how many people agree with me on this one so I can show it to them so they lay off of me.

[Farvus]

Well. I know that Feng Zhu studied industrial design so if you shoot for his type of stuff then you can eventually try this direction. You wouldn't learn to draw monsters and zombies but you could get some solid design foundations this way.

[Saramel]

Ok, here's my 2 cents:

1. It sounds like, from title of this thread, that you are pretty angry and riled up right now. Rule 1 in convincing parents that your plan is better than theirs is to do it calmly and rationally, without anger and defiance, so try just getting to a better place mentally before you go at it again. Take deep breaths, and prepare your responses to be more along the lines of "I know it seems like artists don't make any money or get work, but actually..." instead of "THIS IS MY LIFE, YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!" < (even if they really piss you off - and this was totally me in high school, but with much more cussing )

2. Do some research. Showing your parents that a bunch of people on an internet forum for artists agree with you is probably not what they need to see to be convinced. Try looking up the graduate-to-jobs-in-related-field statistics for your school, as well as average salaries for your career of choice. If you look up these things, you may also find that perhaps the school you are interested in doesn't have a huge success rate, and you can adjust your choice accordingly until you find some promising statistics to convince both your parents and yourself.

3. Even though you are very busy, you should consider uploading some of your work (even if it's just some nature studies). If you are interested in going pro with your art, this is a great community to be involved with, as professionals are always giving advice here, and most of the non-professional artists on these forums are on the same journey as you. I think you'll find submitting your art, even just sketches and studies, will be very beneficial!

[Nibras]

I am in the same boat. Sam age, in the uk as well and similar re-action from my parents. However you need to just relax and realize that at the end of the day this is your life, you will be living with these choices for the next 40 or however long you live years.

Show your parents some artist's work, convince them that you can make money and find a secure job out of this by using successful concept artist as examples.

Finally the course you're doing isn't great for concept art. It's more for 3d, programming, level making and the other parts of game development. If you want to do concept art it would be worth your time to study somewhere where you'll be doing drawing and painting. Getting a solid foundation in all your basics is what really matters (perspective, anatomy, form, tone, light, colour)

At the end of the day being a concept artist is all about what you put in. You don't even have to go to school but you have to be willing to put in the work

[Strato]

"but my parents are pissing about grading, and grading doesn't mean fuck to me, noone cares about that stuff"

Hate to burst your bubble, but you're dead wrong there. Grades go a VERY long way. I had a friend who was a Chemistry major, and he knew Chemistry brilliantly. Due to this, he decided not to care much about his 100 level Chemistry class, and he only got a C in it. Even though he clearly knew his stuff, the Administration and Professors stopped taking him seriously because he only got a C, and he eventually had to change majors. It's very hard to convince people that you know what you're doing if you're getting lousy grades. You shouldn't underestimate "playing the game" a little, because it works to your benefit a lot. Besides, if you're really good at what you do, then good grades will come naturally.

If I were a teacher and I saw somebody with a great portfolio and crappy grades, I would be turned off immediately. That screams to me somebody who doesn't do his work, doesn't care, doesn't have discipline, but worst of all, it suggest somebody who's unteachable. That can shut off a lot of great networking and education opportunities for you. Your parents are completely in the right when it comes to being concerned about your grades. I think that if you showed them that you agree that your grades need improving, but that you still want to do art, you'll probably get them more on your side.

Edit: Oh, one last thing. I made a 3.9 in my major in my undergraduate. I'm not saying this to brag, but if you're making great grades, the staff will go WAY out of their way to help you. Your grades can make for great clout to get opportunities and stuff. I always got told about upcoming jobs and gigs before anyone else, or invited to small galas and stuff like that.

[Alice Herring]

"but my parents are pissing about grading, and grading doesn't mean fuck to me, noone cares about that stuff"

Hate to burst your bubble, but you're dead wrong there. Grades go a VERY long way. I had a friend who was a Chemistry major, and he knew Chemistry brilliantly. Due to this, he decided not to care much about his 100 level Chemistry class, and he only got a C in it. Even though he clearly knew his stuff, the Administration and Professors stopped taking him seriously because he only got a C, and he eventually had to change majors. It's very hard to convince people that you know what you're doing if you're getting lousy grades. You shouldn't underestimate "playing the game" a little, because it works to your benefit a lot. Besides, if you're really good at what you do, then good grades will come naturally.

If I were a teacher and I saw somebody with a great portfolio and crappy grades, I would be turned off immediately. That screams to me somebody who doesn't do his work, doesn't care, doesn't have discipline, but worst of all, it suggest somebody who's unteachable. That can shut off a lot of great networking and education opportunities for you. Your parents are completely in the right when it comes to being concerned about your grades. I think that if you showed them that you agree that your grades need improving, but that you still want to do art, you'll probably get them more on your side.

Edit: Oh, one last thing. I made a 3.9 in my major in my undergraduate. I'm not saying this to brag, but if you're making great grades, the staff will go WAY out of their way to help you. Your grades can make for great clout to get opportunities and stuff.

Your sketchbook indicates you are a 22 year old still in school. You aren't working professionally, so why does your opinion on the subject have any relevance? Too many people on this forum decide their opinion has merit because of unrelated examples, or what someone else 'said'. (Chemistry? We aren't talking abut chemistry! We're talking about art!)

That being said..I do think there is a value in getting an education. If your parents are willing to pay, why not take advantage of it? You can study geology, anthropology, history, archery, architecture - all sorts of things that will give your artwork context.

[Strato]

Your sketchbook indicates you are a 22 year old still in school. You aren't working professionally, so why does your opinion on the subject have any relevance?

I was arguing that your grades in life are important. If you can come up with a convincing argument otherwise, then by all means I'd like to hear it.

Too many people on this forum decide their opinion has merit because of unrelated examples, or what someone else 'said'. (Chemistry? We aren't talking abut chemistry! We're talking about art!)

I thought it was related, but clearly I'm wrong I guess? I was using it to illustrate that if you get good grades, people will take you more seriously than if you get bad ones. Again, if you don't think this is the case, then make a good argument for it. Saying I'm not credible isn't exactly going to convince me that I'm wrong, but coming up with a reasoned argument will.

[Arshes Nei]

No one cares about your grades in art. They care if you actually can do art.

Again, OP should be going to those schools to see which is right or wrong for what they want to do.

[Kamber Parrk]

Yep, and if you want to be a rockstar, it's all about how well you can play the guitar. . .

[Alice Herring]

I was arguing that your grades in life are important. If you can come up with a convincing argument otherwise, then by all means I'd like to hear it.

I thought it was related, but clearly I'm wrong I guess? I was using it to illustrate that if you get good grades, people will take you more seriously than if you get bad ones. Again, if you don't think this is the case, then make a good argument for it. Saying I'm not credible isn't exactly going to convince me that I'm wrong, but coming up with a reasoned argument will.

http://conceptart.org/forums/showpos...&postcount=109 <---U.S. centric

No one has ever asked me what my grades were except for schools. Not to mention you've hardly provided any proof besides opinion regarding grades mattering in 'life'. So where is your reasoned argument?

[Kamber Parrk]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showpos...&postcount=109 <---U.S. centric

No one has ever asked me what my grades were except for schools. Not to mention you've hardly provided any proof besides opinion regarding grades mattering in 'life'. So where is your reasoned argument?

The "instant problem" is that grades are very important to stodgy middle-class parents who probably view "Concept Artist" as up there with Cowboy, Rockstar, or NFL Linebacker. . .

[Conniekat8]

To be tops in whatever you do, you need both.
Great portfolio doesn't come without a lot of hard work and ability to learn and apply yourself well. same personal (learning, hard work ability to listen and learn and have open mind) lead to both, good grades and great portfolio.

It's really not so much about "good grades" but what they reflect. In working world, that grows into other things that are very desirable, like reliability, willingness to focus and work, and a number of others. In school, those things lead to good grades. In working world (being a concept artist is work too) they tend to translate into success.

The two courses that you linked to, they are actually not all that different. 90% of what you learn is likely to be the same in one or the other place. What will benefit you on the long run is one that challenges you more (as long as you have the capacity to live up to the challenge). If you don't, it's also important to not pick something that is too hard, and will cause you to fail or not do well. You want to go for the best that is within your ability to handle. If you don't, you are cutting yourself short on the long run.... and school is supposed to get you going on the 'long run'

Edit: one thing you need to make sure, if you want to be a successful artist is to not skip art fundamentals. being good with all the technology, software etc, will make you a good production artist, If you want to have the ability to be the lead, you need to learn the art fundamentals somewhere - either in school, or self taught, or some other way.

[Conniekat8]

The "instant problem" is that grades are very important to stodgy middle-class parents who probably view "Concept Artist" as up there with Cowboy, Rockstar, or NFL Linebacker. . .

Actually, most 'parents' get hung up on saying "good grades" when they really should be saying "You need to develop discipline and good habits to achieve what you want to achieve"

It's not so much about getting top grades, it's about ability and willingness to push yourself to put your best effort in everything you do. When someone puts their best effort forward, good grades come naturally. Unless someone is stuck in a program that just doesn't suit them.

[Strato]

http://conceptart.org/forums/showpos...&postcount=109 <---U.S. centric

No one has ever asked me what my grades were except for schools. Not to mention you've hardly provided any proof besides opinion regarding grades mattering in 'life'. So where is your reasoned argument?

That was a great read, thanks. Just wish you had said that first instead of being snarky. ;P As far as not being able to come up with any proof, I could try, but it's not really important because I'm going to go ahead and back down anyway. You said enough with your linked post, and you're right that I probably don't have enough professional experience to make any good statements. You have to understand though that I've gotten all of my current jobs, opportunities, and experience because of my grades, as limited as it may be, so can you blame me for assuming that it must apply on a bigger scale? ;P Sorry, I overstepped myself this time. Let's get the thread back on track, shall we? =)

Edit: Connie said everything that I meant to say, but better. =P

[Nezumi Works]

One thing that good grades get you is the favour of your instructors, who will probably end up as your first references in the industry. Certainly in my case, my instructors know most of the local studio owners personally, so getting on their good side is pretty much essential if you're looking to get work after school.

[Elwell]

Why would you NOT want good grades? If you're in a program that interests you, and you're working hard, you'll get good grades as a byproduct. And if you're not, and you're not, well, there you are then.

[aozorize]

Frankly, I think the whole "you dont need good grades to be a concept artist" argument is bs.

Good grades demonstrate your ability to work hard, think critically, focus, and work with others in a collaborative setting. School trains you in these skills. These are all traits you require to succeed not only in the classroom, but also in a workplace.

You could draw like a mfing master. But if you can't make those deadlines (a.k.a turn in your homework on time),you can't work well with the director, programmers, and other artists (a.k.a do a project w/ classmates), and you can't organize yourself (a.k.a you have all your supplies ready for class) then all your effort and skill can be absolutely worthless.

[Elwell]

Also, I don't know how things are in the UK, but in the US colleges in general, and art schools specifically, tend to suffer from ridiculous grade inflation. You have to really TRY to get bad grades.

[Alice Herring]

That was a great read, thanks. Just wish you had said that first instead of being snarky. ;P As far as not being able to come up with any proof, I could try, but it's not really important because I'm going to go ahead and back down anyway. You said enough with your linked post, and you're right that I probably don't have enough professional experience to make any good statements. You have to understand though that I've gotten all of my current jobs, opportunities, and experience because of my grades, as limited as it may be, so can you blame me for assuming that it must apply on a bigger scale? ;P Sorry, I overstepped myself this time. Let's get the thread back on track, shall we? =)

Edit: Connie said everything that I meant to say, but better. =P

Just annoyed at how often this same topic has to be rehashed; and while your experience may be relevant in other situations, the entertainment/art field is portfolio based.

I don't think any of us disagree with the idea that the grades are a reflection of the work. I'm not even against good grades. I'm against the idea that a person needs to attend an academic institution for art. So when someone says "you need good grades..." It's a logical extension of the argument. How a person goes about getting the skills they need to have a good portfolio is their business - whether it's self-study, academic study, a mixture, mentor-ship - whatever.

However, I'm going to repeat what I said earlier to the OP - if your parents are willing to pay, why not go to school? You might be surprised at what you learn. I believe in the UK it's common for students to take a gap year, so does the decision need to be made now?

[Conniekat8]

Just annoyed at how often this same topic has to be rehashed; and while your experience may be relevant in other situations, the entertainment/art field is portfolio based.

While the industry is portfolio based, I'm yet to see a teenager who doesn't understand the value of putting forth their best effort (and getting good grades and good portfolio as a by product) do well.

Most of the time "not everyone cares about good grades" is teenage-speak for "I don't want to work that hard".

Having your portfolio reviewed and compared to other people's work (be it for school admissions, a full or part time job or a freelance project) is just another form of getting graded.... or having your work evaluated.

Heck, in my drawing class, the spring semester, we had a guy who was really really good at drawing certain things. Basic drawing class, he was getting bore in, because he thought he knew everything already.... He was taking classes so he can transfer to a university or a private art school. He didn't get into the art school, and is back in the drawing classes - because, apparently he didn't have the right pieces in his portfolio. I guess they looked at the classes he took, and drawings he made, and wondered why he doesn't have very many finished assignments.

It's the same when you work for someone, or even freelance, you have to have the 'umph' to deliver the goods. In most cases one works because they need to pay the bills, and bills happen more often then the projects we *really* *really* *really* want to do. So even projects that we're not super crazy about end up having to be done professionally, and on time etc... That kind of work ethic doesn't happen in a vaccum, or with "who cares about the grades" attitude.

[cloudcan]

Ok, I got so pissed reading some of these replies, that I wrote way more than I meant to. But I feel this has to be said

Firstly, your parents have some valid points - you may not think so now, but what if in a year you change your mind about wanting to be an artist? In other fields, grades do matter a lot (ex doctors, lawyers, economists.. I don't think anyone will disagree with that) So your grades become a 'backup plan'.

Second, no matter how stupid your parents might seem or actually are, they're the ones holding the money that will feed you for the next few years. Try to be respectful. 'Don't bite the hand that feeds you'

Third, if an art major got a C in art, yes that would be a problem. But how about an awesome artist who failed physics in HS. I'm not saying 'ditch everything except art hurr hurr' But OP's parents are wanting him to go to the Harvards Stanfords and Yales of the world. That requires top grades in non-art related courses. Now honestly imho that's a waste of time and energy (not to mention incredibly stressful) if someone's wanting to go into art.

To be tops in whatever you do, you need both[sic]good grades and great portfolio. [sic] .. It's really not so much about "good grades" but what they reflect. In working world, that grows into other things that are very desirable, like reliability, willingness to focus and work, and a number of others.

Frankly, I think the whole "you dont need good grades to be a concept artist" argument is bs.[sic]Good grades demonstrate your ability to work hard, think critically, focus, and work with others in a collaborative setting. School trains you in these skills. These are all traits you require to succeed not only in the classroom, but also in a workplace.
You could draw like a mfing master. But if you can't make those deadlines (a.k.a turn in your homework on time),you can't work well with the director, programmers, and other artists (a.k.a do a project w/ classmates), and you can't organize yourself (a.k.a you have all your supplies ready for class) then all your effort and skill can be absolutely worthless.

I would kindly ask people not to judge people's productivity/reliability/focus/passion on GRADES and most especially on courses that are absolutely unrelated to someone's interests/career. I don't judge an artist's productivity by their high school physics grade. It's a shame that so many people attach so much importance to not only grades, but high school grades in courses taught by underpaid teachers that are absolutely unrelated to their career of choice, at a period when teenagers are emotionally affected and often go astray.

Good grades demonstrate your ability to work hard, think critically, focus, and work with others in a collaborative setting. School trains you in these skills.

Ok that was so friking ridiculous I had to quote it a second time. Excuse me? I don't know about you, but school did NOT "train" me in these skills of hardworking, critical-thinking, organization and focus. If anything, high school delayed my natural development of those skills. I knew so many straight-A students there who were/are simple idiots and/or assholes, and all they knew was to do the work like a good little girl, turn papers in time like a good little girl, and do the minimum required to achieve a certain grade, mindless drones whose only comfort was to whine and boast about grades, gossip about other people and in general act like a superior stuck up little ****, all they knew was how to recite the textbook and regurgitate what the teacher and their parents told them. Work hard? sure. Think critically? work with others? or god forbid, enthuastic, inspired, passionate? hell no. I have really tried to be fair with all opinions presented, but I really don't know how I can take that fairly.

Actually, most 'parents' get hung up on saying "good grades" when they really should be saying "You need to develop discipline and good habits to achieve what you want to achieve"

I really hope that is true of most parents, but I just thought I would let people know, that there are a significant amount of parents who REALLY do not care, about 'discipline and good habits' or how you get the grade, they just want an A like a gold medal to wear and display and win their child a ride to a prestigious college brand. So to OP yes take your parents opinion in account. Yes try to stay on their good side. But in the end do what you think is right. I'd rather look back and regret choices I myself made, rather than blaming someone for giving me bad advice.

Final point, I really don't understand why everyone keeps assuming that this OP is in art school and getting bad grades in art. It's clearly stated he's in HS. And if it's like most other HS, art isn't even a tiny fraction of his coursework. Yes, grades can be important. Yes, art grades are important to an artist in art college. But otherwise, grades, especially in unrelated areas and in high school, are not nearly as important as some of you seem to make it out to be. They're not some final judgement / showcase of your moral character, productivity and worth as a responsible human being.

I'm sure lots of people disagree with me, but I hold myself to this until 'new compelling evidence' is presented. =_=

[Alice Herring]

I don't have much to post, because I have other people to criticise my work[...]

Er. But are they professionals in the industry you want to work in? Some with decades of experience and knowledge? You are seriously missing a great opportunity here. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.

[Arshes Nei]

Ok, people are making a fuss about the grade thing and not understanding the context.

Kid is in high school. The grades were not a big factor when going to ART school. Depending on the school most just wanted a passing grade/GPA and wanted your money. Other schools wanted to see if you could at least attempt to draw instead of wasting that school's time with thinking Art School is a free ride. These schools need you to give them an entry portfolio.

At the end of your education, what is MOST cared about is your portfolio. The guy hiring you is looking at your portfolio the most, not your GPA.

No one cares when the topic of art is up how you got good grades in chemistry class. The person cares how it works in going to art school.

Again, third time. The OP needs to go visit the schools with his parents (if possible, since some may be a distance) and see what the school is like.

[Venger]

You're 17, why narrow your career choice?
Go do an art foundation course you might find you're open to completely different forms of art that suit you better.
Go play...

[bcarman]

cloudcan-I think when people were talking about grades here they were referring to college.

OP-Nobody here knows what your relationship is with your parents but everyone is closed-minded or ignorant about something. What they do know a little more about than you is life. They have seen what works in their circles and want at least that for you.

At 17 it is hard to look at the big picture. You have this great desire to draw cool pictures and make a living at it and that's wonderful. There is rarely a direct path to that and a lot more to learn than just making pretty pictures.

I was in school with a guy who wanted to be fantasy artist. He worked hard. An opportunity came up for him to be in a few plays. Well it turns out he was fantastic. He even got a full ride scholarship offer to, you Brits will need to correct me, something like the Royal Shakespearean Academy. Full ride, housing and all. He thought about it and turned it down shouting I want to be an artist and move to NY. To make a long story short he is now a bus driver in Portland.

The point of the story is not that he might have gone on to great theater heights, he did enjoy it and immersed himself every time he had a role, but that learning a few things along the way to your pretty pictures might make you a better person and open doors to other passions or even feed the original desire.

Not many people get the opportunity of a free education and you can always stop. But learn what you can from any situation and you will be a better artist. You can always keep drawing.

Edit: it occurs to me that Once again I am ignorant of the schools there in the UK. Can you take drawing and painting classes? I don't even know how the art programs there work. Get them to send you here.

[vineris]

I want to be a Concept Artist, and work in the entertainment industry, be it on a film or a game. I want to create concepts like monsters, characters, heroes, you know Feng Zhu type of stuff.

Chances are you ain't gonna be Feng Zhu any more than you're going to be Patrick Stewart or Bono. You really want to look into what an average artist does in the industry and maybe get some intern experience so that you know whether you're going to be as happy working long hours texturing eggplants for Farm Simulator 5 as you are designing orc warriors.

[Strato]

I don't think any of us disagree with the idea that the grades are a reflection of the work. I'm not even against good grades. I'm against the idea that a person needs to attend an academic institution for art. So when someone says "you need good grades..." It's a logical extension of the argument.

Ah, see, I never said that you need to go to school. =\ I meant that while you're in school, you should be making good grades. I recognize that there is a dichotomy between theory and practice, life and school, that sort of stuff, but I was really just focusing on school. I'm not going to school for (visual) arts anyway, so that would be a weird position for me to take, don't you think? Anyway, I think the discussion is closed now, so I probably shouldn't even be responding. Sorry for derailing shit so much. Didn't mean to.

[Choob]

It seems like both you and your parents are assuming things about the industry. Try doing some research, for example, Bungie (the guys who made Halo) have posted recently about looking for new concept artists and environment artists. Here are the requirements for the concept artist position:



Note that grades are only mentioned in the "Nice To Have" section, and that if you have a good enough portfolio, then grades aren't needed. That aside, do you really think that your folio is good enough to go straight into looking for jobs? Probably not. You could get a job for money, and spend the rest of your time working on your art, it worked for Jason Manley. Or, alternatively, you could go to Uni, where the government will help you with money, and you could even get on an art related course.

I went through this exact dilemma just over a year ago. I'm going to be starting my second year of the Computer Arts course at Abertay Dundee in a couple of weeks, and I have to say it's been great so far. I get to learn about concept art and design, including 3D and sound design, while at the same time learning important traditional skills, in the life drawing and animation classes. On top of that, the instructors know what's going on in the industry, because they've worked there themselves. Some of my lecturers have worked on GTA, Team Fortress 2, and more.

In Noah Bradley's livestream the other week, I was talking to another concept artist who it turns out is a graduate of the course, and might be coming in to talk to us about concept art. It's a small world. I personally chose to go into Uni, because it means I have more time for personal art projects, instead of getting a demanding job, where I would always be tired. Think about it realistically, go visit the Universities and talk to the lecturers, and while you're there, be sure to talk to the older students to see how the courses change. Good luck.