Draw Rabbit, Draw! (A Sketchbook)

[BlightedArt]

Ok... had a look at your bouncing ball exercises. They're looking good (seconding the distracting watermark though).

Also... I kept an eye out for this but couldn't seem to see it in your animations (sorry if I just overlooked it), the frame before the ball hits the ground, stretch it vertically so that the top of the ball is moving the 'correct' distance from one frame to the next, but you've actaully stretched the ball downwards so it's touching the floor before it should.

Might sound strange, but what it does is it creates more of a change in shape, so you've got a tall stretched ball touching the ground in one frame, then the next frame is the squashed stout ball after. It makes the bounce feel more elastic and energetic... Would be happy to do a quick sketch up at home if you like... and sorry, just apologizing in case you did already have this trick going and i just overlooked it.

All the best.

[Alice Herring]

Oh, wow. I didn't realize I'd had so much traffic here! (Shame on me for not posting more. I am drawing, just..er...either not saving the drawings when I'm working on the computer, or not scanning them.

Lightship: Thanks dude!

TeamFox: I believe the frames are numbered? It was just an experiment, so I didn't worry about saving the dgx files. So no, I can't adjust them. :/ But, I have a full copy of digicel now so it shouldn't be a problem in the future. (I've also been working in maya, none of which is posted here atm.)

As for the Leyendecker study, no, I wasn't going for an exact copy. I intentionally lightened the skin tones to clearly separate them from the clothing. However, I may have gone a little too far. The other nitpicks are great! I certainly wouldn't consider the study 'finished' in terms of I think it's an exact match, so nitpick away.

Fighting Seraph:
Physical Colors?! NOOOOOOOOO. ;D Actually, I'm going to hopefully be taking an oil painting class! I do have a little watercolor sketchbook that I've been painting abstract designs in, but nothing particularly interesting.

One absolutely horrific attempt at a person. Learned my lesson about painting in proper lighting conditions!

Strato: Thanks! And yeah...I just have to sit down and do a whole series of thumbnails. It's just that usually at lunch I'm doing gesture drawing.

Blighted Art: You mean that subtle /lean/ I have to everything? I'm working on it. Unfortunately I had no control over the visibility of the watermark at the time, it was there because I was using the free version.

As for the stretch - I was experimenting Some didn't make it up there either. But I know exactly what you mean - thanks for the tip!

[Alice Herring]

I was looking at your sketchbook and I really like your gesture drawings, they're very nice. What I would say is that you now need to practice actually animating things and get a feel for that.

When looking at your ball bounces I noticed a few things you could improve on. The first three in particular seemed to be active jumping up instead of bouncing up and I don't think they were on the ground for long enough. There was also a bit of strobing when the ball went back up (a couple of frames were close enough together so it felt like the ball just flipped around the top/bottom). You were getting better by the fourth though!

One thing that struck me is that you had timing charts on the side and in particular they were very exact, impeccable even. To me that says that you're trying to analyze it down technically to get the timing just so, but what might actually work better for you is just drawing the ball bounce with the major positions (apex, stretch, squash, and bounce up) and adding in through there. You can start out with doing half the distance, then half again, etc. but try using your eyes and not your calculator. It'll help you get the feel of it right which I think is what you're missing. You're very anxious to have it neat and exact, but you're loosing the actual feel of it.

Thank you for your comments!

I disagree with the idea that you can interpret my mental and emotional state based off of my work presentation. I can tell you for a fact that I was not anxious at all. (A little annoyed at dealing with the programs involved, but not anxious.) Keep in mind that the charts are simply a planning tool - I included them because I had a clear idea about the kind of experimentation I wanted to do, and wanted to be able to recognize what I was thinking three, four months down the line.

I agree the fourth is likely the strongest, although it's not quite working like it should. The others were just me veering off and exploring the idea of "what would happen if...." I just figured I did all that experimenting, why not show the stuff that doesn't work too? Especially since the 'doesn't work' often outnumbers the 'hey, this works!'.

[Alice Herring]

Why wouldn't I be able to? A lot of mental and emotional states show through drawing, writing, and planning.

I know what the charts are for.

I was speculating based on how precise and clean the charts were when something like: this obviously works fine too (and that's likely for an assistant, not just the artist's own reference).

In this case your speculation was grossly misplaced. Not that I don't appreciate the feedback - but having someone say what I was feeling (when they have no idea) is absolutely aggravating. Hmmm. or perhaps irksome. Aggravating might be a bit strong. Depends on my mood I suppose.

Oh man. three separate charts with a few things on thirds. Good times!

[Alice Herring]

Work has been crazy. Haven't had time to sit down and do a lot of extra drawing. (Whoboy, that's gonna change in a week. Yay more lifedrawing!)

Anyway, more...well. almost doodles? This sort of thing always reminds me where my anatomy weaknesses are. (PLANES OF THE FACE...) ugh. and the elbow. Always the elbow!

One of the things I've been trying to correct is this subtle /lean/ that's creeped into my work. (damnit. Okay. honesty here. I've always struggled with it.) So there was a lot of time flipping these back and forth. Although, I really should just flip it upside down. MAN, talk about having to remember the planes properly!

[Alice Herring]

Sorry, short comment. I like your toony style, but you need to watch the way the neck connects. It looks like you've drawn a head and torso separately and then had to find some way to connect them. The ear on the girl sitting down feels like it's floating too.


Well, people are going to do that all the time. Also I was talking about more an attitude towards the project: "I really want to get this right" rather than anxiety by itself "Oh I'm so nervous about this."

Hmmm. I didn't save my under drawing once the image was flattened to a JPG - but I know I worked out the connection of the neck. But you're right, it looks weird now that I've had a night to sleep on it and step back. I went ahead and did a draw over (of my own drawing!) and pulled up the hair so the anatomy information is a little more apparent - looks like I didn't properly articulate the shirt collar/right shoulder. Thanks for pointing out that it didn't look right. As for the ear..apparently I need to study how to draw an ear in perspective. Can't seem to get it to lay right. (just means practice.)

Just because people do 'it all the time' (make assumptions about emotional states when working, or how a drawing was completed) doesn't mean it's okay to do. Unless you have the authority to make those statements, it's best to leave them off.

[TomDeVis]

I like your cartoony style and the way you put down your lines !

[Alice Herring]

I think the problem may be that you have the face and the rest of the head at different angles. When the hair was in the way, it made it look like the neck was the problem, not that her face was trying to get away from her skull. (It makes sense, you (general) usually don't consider the cranium as not much is going on there visually.)

And what authority would that be?! Is there a committee that has denied me my license to judge drawing style? Come on, get over it! If it wasn't true, it wasn't true, and there's no need to gripe about how horrible it is to make assumptions based on prior observation.

The authority would be knowledge. I.E., you don't know me. You don't get to judge my mental/emotional state, or how I started a drawing, period. However, your critiques on the artwork itself are certainly welcome.

Tom: Thanks dude

[Alice Herring]

Erm, I thought a lot of this board was judging how people started a drawing. To be honest, you're really getting frustrated, or maybe I shouldn't judge that and just say you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I was not judging your deepest thoughts. What I saw was a clean and very planned chart which say that the chart was important to you, but that the animation wasn't working quite right yet. My point was "Focus more on the feel, less in the charting." You took it as some sort of personal insult that you were nervous when it wasn't. If anything it was more of a compliment, because I said I thought it was important to you and you wanted to get it right/do it right, etc.

There's nothing wrong with judging based on evidence and I would have said the same thing to anyone whit a lot of planning, but a final product that wasn't working. To me it seems like you just wanted to pick a fight and I'm not going to continue this any further. I don't care what your emotions are or were, you spent a lot of time planning and it didn't come out right, it's probably because you flip it back and forth enough to try to see what felt right.

EDIT: So I'm re-reading the post, and it will stay here through it's entirety. One thing I want to make clear is that I have no intention of rejecting your observations of the fact that things weren't working - just some of the reasons why. I DO appreciate the time. (I also like a good discussion.)

For the record, I'm not posting this argument because I'm frustrated, or trying to pick a fight - it's because I believe it's a valid point of contention.

How can you judge how a person starts their work if you don't know? At best you are making assumptions based on personal experience or the experience of others, at worst you are guessing. This board is about artists coming together as a community and helping each other improve through offering tutorials, critiques, so on. Critiques are about addressing what doesn't work, why it doesn't work, and how to correct it. While I don't disagree with the idea of being able to talk about approach or process, you have to know what it is first. Sometimes it can be readily apparent in work, sometimes not. (Someone doing a full painting, with a poorly laid in bg, composition problems, and a near-fully rendered face on an incomplete body? Yeah. that's pretty apparent!)

In terms of animation:
I tried to express to you earlier I was intentionally experimenting regarding the ball bounce. Of course most of them were wonky, that was to be expected. I wanted to see what would happen if I changed something from the 'normal' ball bounce. The charts were specific for that reason. As for your suggestion on how to 'fix' the ball bounces by focusing on the feel: I disagree with that statement - not because it isn't true, but because by itself it isn't clear. It has absolutely no context whatsoever. What if I didn't understand ease in and ease out? I'd have no way of achieving what "I feel." It may have worked for you (to each their own), but for myself as a student it was a disaster. It left me frustrated and angry at my professors when I knew something wasn't working, that it didn't feel right - but I just didn't understand why. What "Feel" really means is understanding where the tension comes from in a pose; how the body is working against (or being pulled by) gravity or another force. If something is something speeding up, or slowing down; and a variety of other things. Sometimes that feeling isn't working because there is no antic. It also helps to understand the basics of Newton's laws, but now I'm getting into a tangent.

If that ball was the first animation I'd ever done, I'd have absolutely no clue how to actually make it work based on your critique. Whenever possible, I believe it's good to be specific when advising how to fix something. At the time it seemed you were offering that critique (to focus on the 'feel' of it) because of - in your words - " [I'm] very anxious to have it neat and exact", so I didn't think anything of it. Now that you've clarified your point, I offer a...critique of your critique? Or perhaps just an opposing viewpoint.

Animating more in and of itself is always good advice, though.

Animation is planning. Not just charts, granted - but in general. Even for storyboards. Heck, the entire process of thumbnails for any image is a part of the planning stage.

Now, just a question:

I don't understand your last statement. Flipping an image is a valid and often recommended way to determine if an object is distorted, which is that 'lean' I was referring to. Doesn't mean what I'm doing is going to come out right - most times it doesn't - but at least for me it's a step forward.

bleh. Rambling from being tired. Hope this makes sense and clears up where I'm coming from.

[Alice Herring]

It does, and I did understand that you wanted to experiment, but I thought the first couple were trying to getting "right."

Which really? Is totally understandable. :) That's why I tried to clarify. I had sorta thought about it, but it was just so much more fun to mess around and go "what if I do this? or this? or this..." And it snowballed. There's probably about 20 other .movs that no longer exist of failed experiments. It was glorious! Also why it took more than one evening. How many people years after taking animation courses decide to start again with a bouncing ball? Weird, I know.

You're right it won't be accurate 100% of the time, but most of the time it will to the point where it's still important to bring it up. If I see a picture with very detailed, rendered hands, but the fingers look pudgy, I will make the jump that the artist was really trying to get the fingers to look right, but might not know some part of the underlying principles. Now it's possible that they know how to draw fingers, but just didn't want to focus on getting them right, they wanted to learn how to render. However, that's much less common than not knowing the underlying structure. To me it was relatively clear, and I don't have a problem if I'm wrong and will readily admit. I have a problem with the "How dare you" tone. I did have reasons for stating what I did, wrong or right.

I've actually found flipping to be very very helpful with spacing, and timing to a degree. When you're watching the ball, you'll probably get a feel for where it will be next. You can even get an idea of where it will be in the middle if you flip the drawing before it, then the blank page, then the drawing after. That's because over the course of your lifetime you've seen a bunch of bouncing balls and have a feeling for where it will be next, or if it's falling too fast, etc. (Obviously you is you general here.)

Planning is definitely a part of animation, and I wasn't critiquing that you were using charts. However it looked like a case where the charts were done and the animation served the charts rather than the other way around.

There was no 'how dare you' intended, just a simple statement of fact. In retrospect, a rather blunt statement - so I can see how it would be taken that way. It's likely without the first one on the animation, the comment about the second drawing (again, not the actual content but how I arrived there) would have been ignored. But together and I had an argument. :) (and I do like my arguments - not to be mean, I just enjoy the debate. Sometimes I pick up a side that might have a valid point, regardless of my personal opinion. I.E., the whole Anime thing. Because really? Everyone pretty much agreed on the over all topic so what else was there to talk about? ;) Sorry that ended the way it did, I figured it was best to just let it lie. I do think what you are pointing out issues that are common for a lot of people - been there, done that. I don't think it should be brought up unless you actually know it's an issue, but I'm willing to just disagree on that point and think about what perspective you're coming from.

OHHHHH. Wait a minute....you're talking animation flipping! heck yeah, flipping is great! Scrubbing on the computer just doesn't have the same feel, alas. (For some reason I thought you were talking about flipping a single image to present a mirror reverse thing, rather than flipping animation) As for the ball bounce charts, because I was working on the computer they are neater than usual. (hello, shift key.) And you know, ball bounce. Pretty easy to chart intentions. Hm. probably should have brought that up in the beginning, that would have helped. If I get some time over the next week I might do some animation, and I'd be happy to hear your opinion.

As for the idea that a person has seen enough bouncing balls to know the feeling - yeah, that didn't work for me, unfortunately. I understand the concept, but lacked severely in execution. I needed to understand how spacing, ease in and ease outs, timing, etc, help indicate weight and speed. For me it was sort of comparable to...learning perspective. REALLY REALLY important to being able to achieve my intentions. Otherwise it felt like I was trying to hit a dart-board blind-folded. Looked like it, too. (now that was frustrating.) Granted, that's not actually true for everyone.

[Alice Herring]

What day is it again?

[Alice Herring]

more drawlings. Hands were giving me trouble, so I took a moment to do some fairly quick hand studies. Numbered according to the order where they were done.

[Lightship69]

Hi matey

Just swung by to see what you've been up to, I saw in the post above that the hands were giving you trouble, I wish I could help but I'm having trouble with way more than hands at the moment.
I have practiced so much "Proper anatomy" that my stylistic cartoony stuff is rubbish at the moment I'm pushing too much detail in it or trying to. Are you doing the same or is it just that hands generally are a pain?

all the best to you my mate.

[Alice Herring]

Hi matey

Just swung by to see what you've been up to, I saw in the post above that the hands were giving you trouble, I wish I could help but I'm having trouble with way more than hands at the moment.
I have practiced so much "Proper anatomy" that my stylistic cartoony stuff is rubbish at the moment I'm pushing too much detail in it or trying to. Are you doing the same or is it just that hands generally are a pain?

all the best to you my mate.

Just felt like I was cheating the hands too much into cartoon/board shorthand. So for me practicing a more detailed study usually helps. :) Or looking at Milt Kahl's hands.

Well...at least you're learning what kind of detail DOESN'T work in a cartoony setting? :D

[Ludic]

Pretty nice work! I like the cartoony style!

[blazinwolf]

You have a cute style!

[Drawallday]

Hello, I really like your drawing and practice style. I hope you get lots of work.

[Psychotime]

Why don't I remember ever looking at your sketchbook?

Shame on me.

[letsgopangolin]

Haha! Do I spot Kung Fu Panda 2? (beautiful movie btw)

Anyway, your figure drawings are beautiful! Oh man! I love how you can really feel the motion. And you can really feel... emotion? I don't know, but there's just a mood to all of them. Lovely!

I love your cartoony style, too. :'D Recently I've been in love with cartoon styles of every kinda.

I wish I could give you critiques but I'm not a very experienced artist. I would say though, that your cartoons seem to be sketched more based on flow than anatomy, so sometimes the poses look a little strange or not humanly possible (or at least not comfortable, haha)

[Alice Herring]

Thanks to everyone for stopping by!

Haha! Do I spot Kung Fu Panda 2? (beautiful movie btw)

Anyway, your figure drawings are beautiful! Oh man! I love how you can really feel the motion. And you can really feel... emotion? I don't know, but there's just a mood to all of them. Lovely!

I love your cartoony style, too. :'D Recently I've been in love with cartoon styles of every kinda.

I wish I could give you critiques but I'm not a very experienced artist. I would say though, that your cartoons seem to be sketched more based on flow than anatomy, so sometimes the poses look a little strange or not humanly possible (or at least not comfortable, haha)

Actually it's the original Kung Fu Panda. ;) And yes, they are exaggerated intentionally. However, I'm certainly still working on finding a sort of balance so they don't look completely impossible. ;)

And I'm glad the figure drawing classes have paid off! :D (still doing more though. always with the life drawing!)

doodle update.

[rumpenstiltzkin]

really love your style, has such a nice flow to it all!

[iven]

I like your storyboards, characters, digital sketches, it looks very Disney'ish.
I neeed to go back to life drawing when I see your stuff. I think I recognize
some deviant art poses (photos) so you go over it just digital or how do you
do that. I always wondered how can I cope with having no time for live drawing
but having a lot of nude models on my hard drive.

[Alice Herring]

I like your storyboards, characters, digital sketches, it looks very Disney'ish.
I neeed to go back to life drawing when I see your stuff. I think I recognize
some deviant art poses (photos) so you go over it just digital or how do you
do that. I always wondered how can I cope with having no time for live drawing
but having a lot of nude models on my hard drive.

Thanks! But those aren't storyboards - just thumbnailing a possible composition. Actually, I don't visit deviant art? However, I was using pixel lovely's gesture tool. Er...I approach a photo the same way I do regular life drawing? Determine the verb, start with a gesture, and try to understand what direction the forms are going etc.

Small update - a sunset out my window. Photoshop (hahaha. can't blend. oh well.)

[Immortal Cintiq]

did you read walt stanchfield's book? because your gestures are very nice.

[Alice Herring]

did you read walt stanchfield's book? because your gestures are very nice.

Actually? Erm...I've skimmed them? I had a teacher who taught from the old hand outs (before the books were published).

I'm in the process of actually reading them now, though. Little bit at a time!

Julie:

regarding contrast -
I know right!? My color picking is terrible! And when a limited time window - well. You see what happened! Was fun though.

Guess I just need to practice more

[Alice Herring]

I owe so many people feedback in their sketchbooks. I'll get to it sometime soon, I swear!

lifedrawing from three separate sessions. I'm back to smooth newsprint with the later scans, which is fun. There are some great mistakes, but I'm still learning. (now if I can just place the drawings right so the head or feet don't fall off the page! poor planning on my part.)

weird. the jpg's show up much darker here. :/ (already grainy from not-so-great-photo-taking skills, but alas. gets the image across!)

poses range from 1 minute to 25 minutes.

I think next week I'm going to try using a medium toned paper with both white and regular charcoal.

[Alice Herring]

OMG. the painting class I'm taking is awesome!

I'm working with gouache, and have pretty much no experience with paint. Every step along the way I'm learning so tons.

Half of it is incredibly fun, and the other half is me being in the stubborn and focused on trying to solve the problem. Thankfully, the instructor is incredibly knowledgeable. So much so I'm having trouble wrapping my head around all of the stuff he's talking about, but I figure it'll fall into place with more painting experience on my part. Already color is much less a mystery than before.

First two were done on the first day - one notan, and one chiaroscuro. Second day is the portrait, using a limited pallete of ivory black, permanent white, cadmium yellow pale, raw sienna, and flame red. The second and third one didn't have a pencil sketch ahead of time - bleh - and much less successful I think because of it. I'm not ready to give up my pencil drawing just yet!

Last was a still life from tonight - added alizarin crimson.

Maybe by the end of the class I'll be able to finish a painting in the time allotted. (doubtful, but something to shoot for!)

[rumpenstiltzkin]

love your lifedrawings, looks great!

[Rhubix]

I didn't realize I hadn't dropped by your sketch book yet, rude much >.<
anywho- I quite like your character drawing- & your life drawing has a great movement to it- you've definitely got animator blood .

I was in the same boat as you when I did my first gouache work. Where I grew up all I could get was house paint and acrylic from the Walmart craft section.
Gouache gets to be a lot of fun because it can be used like water colours, or thicker like acrylics, or a hybrid of the two.
My teacher made us do lots of exercises in learning how to use the paint- usually we just taped off 9 squares on a watercolour block and experimented.

Personally I find it works best when it's dried into a rock and I treat it like the cheap tempera paints you can get at the dollar store.
You can get lots of nice gradients and water-colour looks that way.
Most of the old movies and shows were done in gouache, so there's lots of awesome excuses to watch some of the old films and look at the backgrounds.
Not as many shows still use it, but anything pre 90's is a good bet.

Makes me want to get my paints out....if I can remember where I put them...

Happy sketching

[Alice Herring]

I didn't realize I hadn't dropped by your sketch book yet, rude much >.<
anywho- I quite like your character drawing- & your life drawing has a great movement to it- you've definitely got animator blood .

I was in the same boat as you when I did my first gouache work. Where I grew up all I could get was house paint and acrylic from the Walmart craft section.
Gouache gets to be a lot of fun because it can be used like water colours, or thicker like acrylics, or a hybrid of the two.
My teacher made us do lots of exercises in learning how to use the paint- usually we just taped off 9 squares on a watercolour block and experimented.

Personally I find it works best when it's dried into a rock and I treat it like the cheap tempera paints you can get at the dollar store.
You can get lots of nice gradients and water-colour looks that way.
Most of the old movies and shows were done in gouache, so there's lots of awesome excuses to watch some of the old films and look at the backgrounds.
Not as many shows still use it, but anything pre 90's is a good bet.

Makes me want to get my paints out....if I can remember where I put them...

Happy sketching

Thanks! As for animator's blood, meh. Just lots of practice.

I have to say I'm really enjoying using the gouache when it's a creamy consistency, and I can put it down in an opaque manner.

next painting! (oi.)