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[Lightship69]

Hi Guys

A while ago I tried to create an image of gollum which is a character from "Lord Of The Rings" for those of you who dont know.
I started out with an idea in my head of what I wanted but I never managed to get it on paper, and worse still its still there in the back of my mind waving at me.
Loads of people helped me out and I thank them from the bottom of my heart like "JavierP, and Jeffx99, and my mate shiNIN, plus loads of other who commented".
The thing was I was simply not good enough to create it! harsh but true! so I set it as a goal, or something to aim at, a life target almost for those of you whose english isnt good (neither is mine).
and so periodically I try him again to see if the pose, expression and actions are as crazy as they are in my imagination.
here is where we were:-






Thankfully JavierP came to my rescue with this little Gem and a light went on in an unused part of my head.



Good isnt it!? it certainly helped me anyway.

[Lightship69]

OK once we had a fairly decent pose, or one I could work on at any reate, it was fime to flesh him out and get his limbs old looking and thin as he was described in the text.










The first one was thrown out because Jason R pointed out that we dont really want to see Gollums junk hanging out, so for the sake of modesty it was dropped ( LOL ! )

Each one added a bit more knowledge and pointed out a few more flaws in my ability, which was great because it was feeding back to me and I was getting more and more from it.

[Lightship69]

So the whole point of this last massive update is, Ok so where are we up to with this dude? are we any nearer getting him out of my head. The answer is yes he is moving a little, I understand light more than I did, and form, anatomy, expression and gesture. But There is a long way to go yet, a hell of a long way.



This is him so far anatomy wise, as I improve something I paste it on him to see how it looks and if it enhances or detracts.



I have played a little with perspective, and failed a lot yes! but again its improving, the background feels like a deep dark cave, er kind of!



and This is one I did today whilst trying to pull everything together, lighting, form, gesture, depth, perspective everything I know so far has gone into him. So have a good look and a laugh and then tell me where to focus some more effort, that was kind of the point of it all. Sorry it took so long but in my defense I have been at this a while now!

all the best to you all and thanks for visiting.

P.S. LtPlissken just reminded me, sorry i forgot to put a link up to the original gollum thread in case anyone wants a look at it!

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=219757

[shiNIN]

Oh yeah I remember your first Gollum. You have a really nice goal, it takes a lot to pull off such an image well if one isn't very skilled at everything needed (anatomy, lighting, composition, colors, whatever) - well it depends what's what one is pleased with... One can learn a whole lot in the process while staying motivated, I need such a goal too.

I won't be very helpful at this point I'm afraid but it's quite apparent you improved your drawing a lot.
The last one has a more Gollum-like head, well the movies affected me but I think they solved the how should Gollum look like nicely, maybe a more hobbit like one would be okay too but he definitely doesn't look like as a normal one and a funny look always helps I think. Still in the last pic there's something wrong with the head, I guess he need a wee bit more skull, his head almost consist of a face.
Good luck

[LtPlissken]

Hello there. I just went through one more
time over your pages, to find the old Gollum. Some
great pieces you have there backstage, I have to tell you
again. The purity and relaxing effect in them are priceless.
I want to watch your drawings day and night. This gollum
is a new step in you art history, a step forward, you are
advancing, improving and you are unstoppable. I like the
way that you tried to hide the gollum's junk, cause it would
really be inappropriate for the little children to see his mighty
tool. The little children would be scared and have nightmares
after that. You did a really clever move, by changing his pose.
And I like the way that you started thinking three dimensionally,
everything is different like this. You said it right, you are started
to flesh him out, cause fleshing out is a magic factor in the whole
process. You have surprised me really positively with these drawings
and sketchings. You have a whole different approach now, a better
approach than before. You implemented some quality planning before
acting. Mega super. I do not have anything useful as an advice,
sorry this time. I still did not took my medications so I am a bit
flushed out. Thank you for sharing all this.
Have a great evening and night.

[Lightship69]

Blimey thanks guys!!

I put the link up in tha last post snake so that you could see the original if you had a mind too.
You are right I have come a long way since I started posting here and its down to all my mateys here in this forum, guys like you and shiNIN who both give me a prod to say come on post some more and stop thinking so much.
Then you show me where the holes are, where I am now is down to all you guys, really!! I am not just saying that and I thank you from the bottom of my heart I really do.

all the very best to all of you.

[Lightship69]

Oh dear me!! I tried the first image in the sketchbook again, its one of frank frazetta's from the Book "Icon" which incidentally I recommend that everyone on the planet buys a copy, for inspiration if you are an artist but just for the joy of owning it if you wish you were!

Here is the ref:-


and the first attempt:-


Anyway I like to keep trying this one as well to get a feel of how i'm doing and how I am succeeding or failing, its sort of a practice drawing that I try again and again. Some day I may even get it right!! ha ha ha

Latest go:-


this last one was going so well, I tried to do the correct background and everything. I had a feel for the muscles and how they were all stretching and squashing etc, where the balance was.
Finally when I thought hmm thats not bad! I went and cocked up his head , and the more I messed with him the worse it got and it seemed to flow back through the rest of him.

aw bugger! back to the sketch pad again LOL, I accept my fail.

[LtPlissken]

Surely better than the first try mate.
It is obvious that you have improved.
Doing inking and crosshatching is a tricky business.
Frazetta was struggling with it also.
Look how he messed up the neck area.
But we will forgive him.
This time.

[shiNIN]

Plissken is too forgiving; I'm not. Maybe it's Plissken's personality or he spent much male bonding with Frazetta, who knows? I don't consider that Frazetta drawing so great, the muscles are confusing a bit (and A LOT in the neck area, I have no idea what the hell is going there) theoretically it might be my lack of anatomy skill but both anatomy drawings and human body photos leave me with the feeling I kinda understand what's going on even if I can't reproduce it in my drawings. But this one is a bit odd and even if it's appealing to some people, it doesn't mean it's a good choice as a reference. But it seems it's good to check if you get the angles right It's a tricky gesture, you challenged yourself quite a lot. Oh and the lighting and somewhat rough anatomy makes things unclear in the picture, I mean, one needs a solid anatomy knowledge to pull it off really well.
Your new version is obviously better, with some rough or not quite right parts. The forward leg is bended more than in the reference, the torso is more straight and something is really wrong with the head. I dig the leopard patter on the loincloth-fur, I like you put effort into details.

[Jephyr X]

Hello m8!!

Thanks fer yer visit and kind werds! Glad you like the crab-car...although you may wanna get your car checked if it handles like that!



And yer kitties gifted you with a bat!! That would be FREAKY!!



-So going back a bit I really dug the animation pics...did you ever finish that? I've used Richard Williams book and others as a ref for animations and have actually scanned and then draw characters over those pro walk cycles.

-I agree so much about learning from falures too...AND posting them as well! The gestures in that post did have a nice looseness to them as well!!

-It's awesome too to see you wrestling with yer Gollum and getting what you "see" in your mind onto the page!

By #153 I can see the LUV starting to show like on that left foot and calf (hands and face too) where you clearly have been massaging and working it.

The last one in the cave is quite good too. Clearly if you spend time on something...you reaps rewards!

-Now in regards to Frankie-boy...Mr Frazetta to other humanoids (RIP)...he was the BEST wasn't he!! I have all three books Icon, Testament and Legacy...and Rough Work.

He's great at movement and feel...making him good to study eh? Your most recent sketch of Tarzan does indeed show improvment.

While I agree with our firends Plissken and shiNIN that his anatomy was sometimes a liitle loose especially on the earliest schtuff. There's nothing wrong with having an anatomy book open while you sketch from him to see details he mighta tweaked a bit.

Otherwise look at that loose limbed pose...the light and shadow...the muscles (like those legs) and proportions...plus that ink-work! Whew! I'm a fan...wished I'd met him.

Well great to see all yur recent schtuff...keep it coming!

[Lightship69]

Hi guys

Thanks for calling in so quickly, I didnt expect that at all!!

Mr Plissken :
This is one of the reasons why I do frank frazetta copys I am completely crap at cross hatching and shading generally. I do a lot of cubes and spheres and all thet nonsense but there is no substitute in my mind for (almost) real life scenarios where the light comes in and hits at points X,Y and Z. I have a very graphical mind and work better if I can see something and how it works.
But the Tarzan guy keeps getting away from me, as i try and massage the details and get it right it goes further and further wrong! I will give it a few more months and then try and enlist the help of JeffX99 again. He seems to be on my mental channel and his explanations sink in easier than others, weird but true.

shiNIN:
Oh come on matey you gotta give it up for Frank Frazetta! yes some of the anatomy is flawed but there is so much to learn from his work. Take the egyptian queen image from a few pages back, the use of light in there is sublime, I picked up so much information whilst really studying that it was surprising.
The thing with this Tarzan image is the shading, like I said to snake I'm crap at it and just doing shapes isn't lighting my fire at the moment. Plus the gestures he gets in the characters is great to look at and study some are halfway through and some are at the beginning I think it's really clever.

JephyrX:
Ah I sensed a kindred spirit! another Frank Frazetta fan, and a cartoon enthusiast as well how can you be into fantastical art and not be, I wish I could have met Frank too he was a natural talent. But apparently quite modest too, He didnt see his work as being brilliant at all he was just glad to be able feed his family and make a living at it. I think that would suit me too, making money at something I enjoy, I love kids and making them laugh too and that would be my goal, doing great art that makes people smile and yet be reasonably impressed with it too.
As for the Tarzan sketch yes its improved but its still way way wrong! but it makes me happy to try to do them oddly enough. I dont mind failing at these things, My background is in writing programs and code so I am used to taking a step forward and two back again as you try different ways of going forward to make something work. Plus I have bus loads of patience, from the coding background and because I have two Kids (aged 10 and 7) gotta have patience with kids or you end up in a bottle !! ha ha ha


Thanks for visiting so often guys I really appreciate it and love you for it. You are all superstars and someday I will be chasing you down the street wanting an autograph so be kind!! Ha ha ha

all the very best to you

[Izene]

Awesome sketches ,man! I want to see more!!

[Lightship69]

Hi guys

Er thanks "Izene" more sketches soon, but I doubt any of my work deserves the title "awesome!" as yet, but thanks again anyway its always nice to get a new visitor.

More study images for shading and tones, because I cant shade for toffee!

The reference images are out of one of the reference E-Books in this thread :-
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131117

Here you go have a look at them I know where its improved but I bet you can't ha ha ha !







all the best and thanks for stopping by.

[Harmageddon]

Hey mate, thanks for your advice in my critique centre post.

I admire your perseverance (is that how you write it?)

That is in my mind the only way to accomplish any goal whatsoever, so good on ya!
As for your Gollum, keep practicing anatomy, fiddle around with all kinds of strategies to
learn that (Burne Hogarth, posemaniacs, the other awesome anatomy guy..can't
remember his name right now)
As for your Frazetta piece - the 2nd is definately an improvement: bolder shadows
(which means you feel more confident handling them), a more defined background and
overall better anatomy. However, I did notice 1 funny thing: his head in your first
attempt is too much to the right. As in, the placement is too much to the right, and his
head is tilted too much to the right. Whereas in your 2nd attempt, his head is too much
to the left (compare to his ribcage and shoulder). So my guess is, that in your third
attempt, all you need to do is smack his head straight in the middle

Anyway, keep up the hard work!

[LtPlissken]

Those are some hell of a chimney studies man.
That is what I am talking about.
And that reference collection link, just made my day.

[Jephyr X]

Yeah...agree with our pal Plissken...and thanks for that link...very cool.

Good ta see yer studies and the refs! It all adds up eh?

[Quigleyer]

Man just keep working like you are. It's great to see you studying, you just gotta keep at it. How are you doing these days? Workin' hard?

[AllyAlbon]

I like your animation breakdowns, and I love your Frazetta inspirations - he is one of my favourite artists. Definite improvement between your first version and second! you should do the same thing again in six months time too

[Diarum]

I thought I would add my two cents, I think one of your problems is that you are drawing what you think is there and not drawing what is actually there. I have this problem also, and a lot of people do to. Remember everything related to one another. Make sure that all of the body parts are in the right spot in relation to each other. It was very easy to make something to large and another thing to small. Don't get caught up in small things, block in the large shapes then move in to smaller shapes. Hope this helps, keep it up! Also more still lifes. Still lifes > all.

[Lightship69]

Hi guys

Many many thanks to you all for visiting and taking the time to post, I really appreciate all the feedback.

LtPlissken: - you will never guess what mate whilst rummaging around in your SB for that comic strip you did, I noticed that very same thread, your memory is fading with age man, that and alcohol soaking hopefully LOL!

JephyrX: anytime man I ran accross them about a year and a half ago, the more you rummage around in this site the more you get from it. Just look all you people its all here!!

Quiglayer : Hi mate, yep working hard and going in circles mate LOL, you know how it is some days you are good and others you cant draw a circle properly, ha ha ha.
I keep cranking up the studies and put some good ones in here plus some good fails too so that folks can see the stages.

AllyAlbon : Thanks for the visit matey, Yep Frank Frazetta has been a hero of mine for a great number of years, I was even guilty in my earlier years of buying pakerbacks just for the covers. I'd try and try to draw them and fail more often than not LOL. All the best.

Diarum : Hi there matey, thanks very much for the SB visit and the comments, Yes you are right my mate "Strato" has said the very same thing, work on your observation and slow down. I keep rushing things through because I get all excited and want to see it done, daft but true.

Thanks again to all of you I really appreciate all the comments and crits, all the very best to you all.

[LtPlissken]

Alcohol is starting to do the damage, haha,
you are right, aaah so many links and tutorials
I cannot remember any more, I became senile.
Now, where are the updates?

[Cam Sykes]

Consider the weight and volume of what you are drawing. Just like in maths where you draw a cylinder and calculate it's width, depth, and height.

I think perspective study will help you better understand this. Successful Drawing by Andrew Loomis covers alot on perpective. Try study through that book, it's a free ebook pdf just google it.

[Black Spot]

Good to see you tacking less complex items than the human body. You might find it easier if you can get some off white paper. Keep on practising.

[Lightship69]

Hi guys

Yes its Frank Frazetta time again, I did this little sketch of carson in his boat, but I removed the sea monster. I have my reasons for this and its not because I couldnt draw it.
I was looking at dpaint's thread in Its finaly finished, its here if you want to look:-
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=177729

I love the use of colour and light when its done well in a picture, and he is very very good. The sea and the colours in the waves in that very first image is brilliant.
Sobeing motivated and interested i thought I would try and put the colour in the sea as well as I can in the carson image, but without clouding the issue with spray from the monster.

Ref :-


First draft with coloured pencils for initial colouring.


ok on to replies:-

LtPlissken:
you are just so pushy old chap, come on update me etc etc. so I did this in about 30 mins, thinking I can be rough as I like if I'm gonna paint it. I hope it will do for now. because most of my time is taken upp studying at the moment. Not acedemic stuff, just James Gurneys colour and light and Imaginative realism, loomis figure drawing for all its worth, also Jim Burns, Frank Frazetta, Roger Dean, Rodney Mathews and last but not least Chris foss.
And yes I will do you some big ships in space as a treat soon OK!?

stay well my mate.

Cam Sykes:
welcome new visitor thanks for calling in, and thanks for the input. You are right and Perspective studies are on my "To-Do" list, but as I consider myself an sketching and rawing "idiot" its a bloody big list mate. I will carry on though and do more and post it up, though not so many fails any more, I decided it was starting to look a bit crap in here and I wasnt improving.

Mrs Spot:-
I was starting to worry! where have you been? you dont call! you dont write! and I posted and posted in your SB, work piling up again matey? hee hee
(sorry just being a clown again), and thanks for the comments by the way, never thought of changing paper. I find that if I change study subject from time to time it stops me getting stale and bored and gets me motivated again.
all the very best to you Mrs Spot.

thanks again to all of you for posting comments.

[LtPlissken]

Colored pencils were never my big friend,
I never managed to tame them, but I can
see that you can handle them well and brave.
Frazetta - I still not managed to fight him.
My mother beat me last week,
I went out of gas, so I guess
I will have to get in some better shape.
Watch some Rocky movies.
You are doing fine, and you are doing great,
I started to gather beer for the new years eve,
so we could have enough. I built a fallout shelter
also. I got the beer down the shelter, and when it's
new year, we will not come out till all the beer is gone.
If you are coming, just note me a bit forth, so I can
arrange some things. Cheers.

[yogeshj25]

hey mate! looking through your updates and i like your progress! keep pushing it! Its good that you are using references as motivation. Its the best way to get ideas in the beginning. I would say that you still need to work with ur anatomy. You should do some studies from loomis or bridgeman. Also go darker with ur pencil and colors. as everyone says, dont be shy with it. Also, try doing some posterized studies, something like this, http://brianstiner.files.wordpress.c...face.jpg?w=495 . this will help you separate your values and make everything stand out a lot more. Hope that helps. take care and stay intense!

[Jephyr X]

'Ello Guv'nor!

You had me at Frank!! Kindred spirits indeed...from Mr Incredible to Frankie-boy!!



So that's one of my (many) favorites of his. Your quick study is looking good. I agree with our pal-zee Plissken that colored pencils are hard to tame.

I have a friend who uses linseed oil or turpenoid on a brush (very, very little to blend his color pencils...he gets a nice effect that way.

Anywho...hope all is well m8!! Happy Holidays!!

[Lightship69]

This has been an odd week, Its the run up to christmas and everything is in our house hold is in a state of "running in circles" or chaos if you'd prefer.
The Kids are too excited to sit still, my wife is stressed with work (again!) and yet i feel like the eye of the hurricane strangely serene.
Weird but true! and yet despite this calm state of mind I cant seem to settle on any one thing to draw or follow up on, I am too full of ideas and things that I want to try.
I have been sketching away in an A5 pad all week, loads of stuff went in there mostly crap I admit but it was a new pad and its nearly gone (50 sheets!).

OK so what have we got thats interesting and worth following up?





I started this environment study because I like the way the colour changes in the water as the waves come up the beach and the shadows on the sand.





Then I found this picture of a horse galloping and the way it held itd head just screamed "Unicorn" at me because of the way it is holding its head as the shot was taken.





A couple of random images that occured whilst looking at the blank page, odd but true, lord only knows where my head was at!!





Then I found a picture of a stream in a book at someones house, I couldnt get it out of my head when I got home the way the light shone in it and the way you could see through it in some places and not others. So I did them above as well.

Ok all resident psycologists sort me out!!

[Lightship69]

You know what I think I will do them all! that and the raven from a few pages back. I cant get that one out of my head either.

all the best you lot!!

[Black Sun S.]

Hello Lightship69,
tks for dropping by and for the tips!
Your work is great and I prefer your colors! Really cool!
Frazetta is always an inspiration!
Keep rocking!