Motivation for those afraid to post work: why we forget the importance of failure

[J@n!t]

Well, for the record I have been posting 99% of what has come out of my pencil since I started drawing again. I see my online sketchbook as a record of what I am doing/have done, not as a portfolio to showcase my best. You have to start somewhere, and it is liberating to post what you might not be proud of. There's much to be said about getting over yourself and your pride.

edit: What really confuses me is when people decide they suck at something and then they run off and sulk and feel terrible about themselves. If you were a mathematician and were having trouble with (insert math difficulty here), you would go work on that area specifically. As artists, there are still people who believe art is magic and that they either have the magic already or they wait for it to come to them in their sleep. Blows my mind. Granted, there are myriad things to work on and get right in order to make the kind of art one wants to make, but if you don't pick out the specifics and apply yourself to them, you might find yourself just waiting on magic.

[GallenWolf]

Thanks for this thread. I don't frequent CA that much - looking out for threads on perspective today - but this thread is highly inspirations. Cheers!

GW

[Lotuschild]

As artists, there are still people who believe art is magic and that they either have the magic already or they wait for it to come to them in their sleep. Blows my mind. Granted, there are myriad things to work on and get right in order to make the kind of art one wants to make, but if you don't pick out the specifics and apply yourself to them, you might find yourself just waiting on magic.

I think this may have something to do with the overwhelming population of people who cannot draw or do art of any kind, and treat it as such. "Oh I could never do that." I don't particularly see myself as having some mystic art gene, though my father was an artist as well and everyone in my immediate family has some kind of creative outlet, be it painting, sculpture, writing..

But I really swear it has more to do with practice and technical skills than it does with magic fingers.. It makes sense that there are artists like that since all it takes is a minute or two of talking to a non-artist about art to hear that 'magic skill' discussion and think it's impossible for you ever to get great, because all the great artists had magic genes/talent/were wizards.

This is definitely more relevant to visual art, than it is performance since most people will agree that it is possible to learn ballet, but it takes sheer determination and passion to become great at ballet.

Unless you are talking to a group of visual artists..you seldom ever hear anyone talk about visual art that way.

[MightyApplejacks]

This is why I start to cringe when I hear people mention the word 'talent' and it 'making someone great'. Nobody ever became great overnight, especially not by any 'magic' ability.

I found I had a strong drive to learn drawing when I found myself 'competing' with another person who was much better than me. I suppose it was because I was proud at the time of my drawings when they were really bad, and I got showed up something fierce XD Then I decided to pursue it some more so I wouldn't be so terrible, and.. here I am, still trying?

Of course, I could have stuck at it rigidly and improved a looooootttt more, had I actually known what I was doing. I seem to have a clearer idea now, though.. it's just a matter of sticking to it and seeing it through.

Incidentally, it's not necessarily a bad thing to feel inferior, at least in part. If you use that to your advantage (by seeing your flaws and accepting them, as opposed to letting them cloud you) you'll feel like you've overcome something, and then it's just a case of doing it again, and again. Who knows, that might be the thing that actually keeps you going?

Just think of it as climbing a ladder and picking snails off it as you go.. IDK xD; Don't sweat the small stuff, any mental obstacles (like 'I SUCK') are simply there to test you.
So just keep beating them down with everything that you learn. Better yet, pinpoint exactly what your flaws (treat it like fears?) are, and you stand a better chance of attacking them. (Think someone might have already said something similar <.< not sure though)

[sone_one]

im still afraid of posting my artwork aswell

but its the failures we learn from the most, and therefore we should actually,
appreciate and seek them. (still trying to hammer this into my head, but, you
know, still dont want to let any happen, and am down when the do.)

[edit] on the other hand ... i started oilpainting recently and eventhough
i see so many errors in them, i appreciate everyone, because i know that
at that time its been the best i could do, and i feel like wearing 7-mile boots
if it comes to learning.

[Vay]

Sometimes the professors show their students good art work by other people who are at about the same age range just to tell their students that you gotta work extra hard. This is just to give them a sense of where they are at and who they are competing with, which should be taken as a good thing by the students.

[Deadlyhazard]

Hell, I post crappy stuff now! But I'll try to find some early stuff to share...may take awhile...

Post your early work Jeff! So I can quit feeling bad about myself!

[hollysz]

Time to start posting everything. Even if it doesn't work out for you, the worst that could happen is people see some rubbish art.

[Laurice]

Alright. I'll be honest and bear a little of myself to everyone; I'm afraid to make mistakes and I know that making mistakes is the core in learning.

When I draw, I often get conscious about not doing things right; and I realized that this is due to a past experience wherein I was in the same pressured, dependent, unsure of what to do situation (except not drawing) and was severely reprimanded for making a mistake. And from that point on, I always kept to myself, and tried to do things as best as I could. I try to learn as much as I can intellectually before applying it, so that when I do apply it, i would at least have avoided mistakes. And because of that experience, I became ashamed of my mistakes and failures.. I developed the habit of wanting things "perfect" – not in it's literal sense because nothing ever is perfect.

This is why I struggle in making studies, sketches or loose drawings – because now, even I myself don't want to see myself making mistakes, I'm disappointed at myself about not being "good enough." The struggle in making these loose drawings has caused me to "economize" my drawings.. Like when I draw, it has to be something finished. Something "worth looking at." I hardly ever spend time to just scribble and make the pen move me – although I really am trying now, despite the struggle. I've posted my loose sketches in my sketchbook.




My story might disappoint some of you, or infuriate you, but it's kind of something I'm really sensitive towards. I guess I just really need some help.

[Rhubix]

I have a handful of friends who refuse to post on CA dispite my constant efforts to get them to do so.
Why? I ask.
*Because my stuff isn't good enough.

Good enough for who? Art isn't a contest! For every artist that's better than you there are 10+ that are worse. There are probably 20 people that will never be as good as you are now just because you chose to learn.

*They'll tell me my perspective / anatomy / fill in blank is bad.

So? You just told me yourself it was bad. If you know why would you be worried about people confirming your assumptions? Maybe they'll have good advice. Maybe they've had the same problem themselves.

* I'm embarrassed of my work.

This one makes me sad. If someone handed me a guitar I couldn't play it. A year from now, if I practiced every day, maybe I could not make a complete fool out of myself, but I doubt I'd be playing in concerts or making a bazillion dollars.
Everyone has this strange idea that if you fail your a failure. The only way to be a failure is to stop trying.

Honestly, I'm just plain out ashamed of my art - not so much intimidated as simply disgusted of the fact that I suck and that no matter how hard I try the chances are that I won't really ever get much better

You need to take your shame and turn it into stubborn damn resolve.
If you feel your not progressing I don't think it's for lack of ability. More likely you've been studying ineffectively.
If someone is handed a guitar and told to learn to play some will be able to pick up chords by ear and practice. Other people need a 'learn to play guitar' tape, some may need lessons, some could learn from a book.
None are right, everyone learns differently and at a different pace.
Some people are perspective rock stars but struggle with organic shapes like human faces, others have a wonderful sense of life and emotion but perspective makes them want to tear out their hair.
In my experience the people who struggle the least plateau more. They find a comfortable level and stick it out.
It's the people who scratch and claw for every stitch of learning that come out on top.
There are only a fist full of people that are truly gifted and don't need to try.

When I draw, I often get conscious about not doing things right; and I realized that this is due to a past experience wherein I was in the same pressured, dependent, unsure of what to do situation (except not drawing) and was severely reprimanded for making a mistake. And from that point on, I always kept to myself, and tried to do things as best as I could. I try to learn as much as I can intellectually before applying it, so that when I [I]do[/] apply it, i would at least have avoided mistakes. And because of that experience, I became ashamed of my mistakes and failures.. I developed the habit of wanting things "perfect" – not in it's literal sense because nothing ever is perfect.

This is me in a nutshell. Oftentimes I get so anxious about quality that I ruin what I'm doing by fixing it. I fix it until it's ridged and sterile and bad.
Oddly I find 5 year olds a great solution for me. I have a slew of nieces and nephews and when I draw cars and fish in crayon for them they think I'm a magician!
Sometimes you just have to tell your brain to shut up. Do something fun and stupid- draw some fairy princess, draw some zombie dinosaurs, do it in crayon and do it badly! It works doubly well with a friend, ten times as well with a 5 year old.

[p sage]

If we all strive to reach the level of the great masters, then what glory will be left to the great masters?

They still have the benefit of history and lore on their sides. There have probably been numerous pieces that outdo the Mona Lisa since it was created; but they'll never have the history, lore, mystique and aura about them in our lifetimes that it has. On top of that, Leonardo was an innovator. Nobody was doing the same type of work as him at the time.

Now to your first point... the desire to master something is one of the great intrinsic motivators of our times, as described in Daniel Pink's book "Drive". He discusses one level of motivation (sex, food, sleep, shelter)... a second level (higher pay/money, etc).... and what he believes is motivating the conceptual age (the one we're in). One of those main motivators is the desire to master our crafts... which may act counter to the first types of motivation (pay, sleep) but provides more satisfaction and utility.

In short, trying to master art is one of the things that makes it most pleasurable; more pleasurable than trying to sleep that extra hour, more pleasurable than working longer hours in some non-art job and going home early to make more drawings.

But what about those artists who never improve?

These people need good information; they're probably unaware that such information exists, which is why for them drawing remains a mystery, and why they may continue believing that you have to be born knowing how to draw.

[Farvus]

I don't know where that thinking comes from that if something is not on the net then it doesn't exist. If someone is not posting in sketchbook then it doesn't neccesarily mean he's afraid of failing in drawing or he doesn't draw much.

Get your work up and get it critiqued then go back and fix whats wrong with it. The more you see what is wrong and the more you work towards fixing it, the faster you'll get to the level you want to be at.

That's ideal situation. Nowdays it's very rare to see on CA any critique in sketchbook threads.

[Brandon Pilcher]

When I draw, I know that my end result will have a bunch of mistakes, but I don't know exactly what those mistakes are and what skills I have to learn in order to stop making them. The thing that terrifies me the most is the possibility of someone telling me that I have to relearn everything about drawing. I've seen artists much better than myself get told on this website that they have to "go back to school", as if their work was little better than a kindergartner's scribblings. It must be insulting to spend years drawing only to receive the message that you have to start your long artistic journey all over again.

[p sage]

When I draw, I know that my end result will have a bunch of mistakes, but I don't know exactly what those mistakes are and what skills I have to learn in order to stop making them. The thing that terrifies me the most is the possibility of someone telling me that I have to relearn everything about drawing. I've seen artists much better than myself get told on this website that they have to "go back to school", as if their work was little better than a kindergartner's scribblings. It must be insulting to spend years drawing only to receive the message that you have to start your long artistic journey all over again.

You need to find good information; you need to actively seek it out. It's not a passive exercise (Q: what should I do? A: Read Loomis). There are great mini-schools/academies in the States now outside of the University system where you can get real instruction and real preparation for art school.

I went to one of those and am returning to study color this summer. It's absolutely essential to get the right information.

[Laurice]

I have a handful of friends who refuse to post on CA dispite my constant efforts to get them to do so.
Why? I ask.
*Because my stuff isn't good enough.

Good enough for who? Art isn't a contest! For every artist that's better than you there are 10+ that are worse. There are probably 20 people that will never be as good as you are now just because you chose to learn.

That's a good question to always be reminded of. "Good enough for who?" Sometimes I get that haunting feeling about wanting to (and semi having to) please everyone (or at least a majority) of those who look at my work because for some ridiculous reason, I feel that approval from people towards my work has a direct effect on me as a person.. I don't like taking things personally because it always gets in the way of growth.

...You need to take your shame and turn it into stubborn damn resolve.
If you feel your not progressing I don't think it's for lack of ability. More likely you've been studying ineffectively...
In my experience the people who struggle the least plateau more. They find a comfortable level and stick it out.
It's the people who scratch and claw for every stitch of learning that come out on top.
There are only a fist full of people that are truly gifted and don't need to try.

I probably haven't been struggling enough.. As I was doing a dig painting for a friend, I experienced a brief intense drive to make it look right. I guess that was my struggle during the creation of that work. I wanted it to look nice – or believable at least – so I had to voluntarily heighten my senses: seeing what was wrong, analyzing color and composition, etc.

This is me in a nutshell. Oftentimes I get so anxious about quality that I ruin what I'm doing by fixing it. I fix it until it's ridged and sterile and bad.
Oddly I find 5 year olds a great solution for me. I have a slew of nieces and nephews and when I draw cars and fish in crayon for them they think I'm a magician!
Sometimes you just have to tell your brain to shut up. Do something fun and stupid- draw some fairy princess, draw some zombie dinosaurs, do it in crayon and do it badly! It works doubly well with a friend, ten times as well with a 5 year old.

I'd like to try this.

[Brandon Pilcher]

You need to find good information; you need to actively seek it out. It's not a passive exercise (Q: what should I do? A: Read Loomis). There are great mini-schools/academies in the States now outside of the University system where you can get real instruction and real preparation for art school.

I went to one of those and am returning to study color this summer. It's absolutely essential to get the right information.

I'll be transferring to UC San Diego after this summer, and while I will be focusing my studies on biological anthropology, I will do my best to fit a drawing class into my schedule. Or is UC San Diego's drawing program made of fail?

[TinyBird]

When I draw, I often get conscious about not doing things right

Aw, I'm kinda the opposite, I enjoy the act of drawing too much to notice my mistakes, and when I'm finished I'm left with crap. Which in effect makes me hate drawing.

I have a handful of friends who refuse to post on CA dispite my constant efforts to get them to do so.

Same here. And it's boggling in the sense that these friends often (or at least occasionally) do whine about how they don't like their art or they haven't improved, but then say posting here would be too stressful or intimidating, even though constantly thinking how bad your artwork is probably just as stressful, or at least more depressing.

Then again, their reluctance might come from the fear that if they do post here, get help and draw and they still won't improve... Which admittedly is my #1 fear too in here. Because then there is no one else to blame but me.

[p sage]

I'll be transferring to UC San Diego after this summer, and while I will be focusing my studies on biological anthropology, I will do my best to fit a drawing class into my schedule. Or is UC San Diego's drawing program made of fail?

Visit the school first; meet with some of the professors. That's what's meant by being pro-active. Make the determination before going.

[pondman]

I don't know where that thinking comes from that if something is not on the net then it doesn't exist. If someone is not posting in sketchbook then it doesn't neccesarily mean he's afraid of failing in drawing or he doesn't draw much.

I have to 2nd this. I'm 50-- been drawing for 45 years. I've taught industrial arts for 25 years. I see drawing as one of the creative outlets. I've been paid to draw for a couple hundred creative projects on the side, including a series of first aid pamplets for the U.S. Army when I was 19.

I'm more interested in telling young people to continue creating-- and don't listen to anyone--especially high school teachers. I'm also interested in the learning process, and different modalities, other than what you find in dreadful public education.

However, there is some truth to art. The longer you live, the more experience you have. And I personally believe creative abilities increase, because you no longer give a damn what other people think.

My issue: I don't want to draw dragons or big breasted women and have 17 year olds responding.

[Black Spot]

17 yos here have a lot more to say then just dragons and big breasted women.

[Alex Eh]

I'm afraid to make finished images I must change that. Nothing wrong with spending 80 hours on one image if that's what it takes you right?

[RangerX]

I'm afraid to make finished images I must change that.

believe in your self never mind what any one has to say, the first pro gig i did was in front of 15,000 people, didn't care at all ,you are showing your inner self
thats all that counts

[Ghast]

Alright. I'll be honest and bear a little of myself to everyone; I'm afraid to make mistakes and I know that making mistakes is the core in learning.

When I draw, I often get conscious about not doing things right; and I realized that this is due to a past experience wherein I was in the same pressured, dependent, unsure of what to do situation (except not drawing) and was severely reprimanded for making a mistake. And from that point on, I always kept to myself, and tried to do things as best as I could. I try to learn as much as I can intellectually before applying it, so that when I do apply it, i would at least have avoided mistakes. And because of that experience, I became ashamed of my mistakes and failures.. I developed the habit of wanting things "perfect" – not in it's literal sense because nothing ever is perfect.

This is why I struggle in making studies, sketches or loose drawings – because now, even I myself don't want to see myself making mistakes, I'm disappointed at myself about not being "good enough." The struggle in making these loose drawings has caused me to "economize" my drawings.. Like when I draw, it has to be something finished. Something "worth looking at." I hardly ever spend time to just scribble and make the pen move me – although I really am trying now, despite the struggle. I've posted my loose sketches in my sketchbook.




My story might disappoint some of you, or infuriate you, but it's kind of something I'm really sensitive towards. I guess I just really need some help.

WOAH there bud. Thats a lot of negativity for someone with a sketchbook as excellent as yours. And your story shouldnt disappoint or infuriate anyone here, since we are all working towards similar goals, and most of us have been through what many have already been through. So dont sweat it. You should be proud of how far along you are, so enough with the unhappy faces lol

[M.A.C.]

I'm more interested in telling young people to continue creating-- and don't listen to anyone--especially high school teachers. I'm also interested in the learning process, and different modalities, other than what you find in dreadful public education.

However, there is some truth to art. The longer you live, the more experience you have. And I personally believe creative abilities increase, because you no longer give a damn what other people think.

My issue: I don't want to draw dragons or big breasted women and have 17 year olds responding.

My high school teacher is probably the biggest help I have in life. She pushes me and everyone around me, gets me into several art classes outside of school, and allowed me to partake in a life changing art program recently. And I happen to be 17 and while yes, dragons are cool and some woman can be attractive, I don't spend my time doodling those things for the lolz.

Great thread btw. I'm going to try saving up for a scanner of some sort, so I can start a s/b

[Ghast]

I'm going to try saving up for a scanner of some sort, so I can start a s/b

got a camera? works the same if not better