Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 151 to 180 of 218

Thread: Brandon returns (dinosaurs, ancient warriors, and studies)

  1. #151
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Some human face and nose studies:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #152
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    I wanted to draw a biracial character, so here's a guy who's half Greek and half Egyptian.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #153
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Crude sketch of an earthen mound-temple from the ancient Mississippian culture which once thrived in eastern North America until 1500 AD:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #154
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    A couple of days ago I bought a set of 36 Copic markers for $251 and have been using them to color my drawings ever since. Here's a sampling of my new Copic work:
    Attached Images Attached Images        

  5. #155
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    And now for something completely different...a still-life of my desk lamp.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #156
    Velocity Kendall's Avatar
    Velocity Kendall is offline Show me all the blueprints Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cambridge UK
    Posts
    5,290
    Thanks
    6,391
    Thanked 4,470 Times in 2,437 Posts
    jeez louise are you nuts? Spending £200(!!!!!) on markers and then using them to just colour in bog standard flat areas of colour is a insane waste of money. You could get the same results with some crayola felt pens from the supermarket for pennies. Or photoshop. For free.
    Check out what skillful use of copics can produce; and be aware, they run out real fast colouring in entire pages of green grass...








    sb most art copied to page 1
    Weapons of Mass Creation 2011 ::: Add your favourites!
    skype: velocitykendall
    facebook: Alface Killah

  7. #157
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Honestly, I only bought them because a DA friend of mine was using them and I felt inspired by her art. But now that you mention it...unless you buy a lot of intermediate colors, markers in general are not great for blending.

    Maybe I could sell them online somewhere.

    Anywhere, here's a portrait of a bald Native American dude that I drew and colored before seeing your post.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    2,059
    Thanks
    1,343
    Thanked 1,314 Times in 1,072 Posts
    Hello Brandon, thank you for the nice comment you left in my sketch book.

    I think you have a nice start in here, but you can do more. Challenge yourself!
    Do anatomy studies: bammes,hogarth, bridgman,loomis, etc etc perspective, value studies and so on. Make your horizon even wider.
    And then, try applying them to your own characters, study from life, study after masters, but most important,
    understand what you are drawing, don't just copy!
    Sketchbook

    Portfolio

    Danny_K Icecold

    "Good artists are the crappy artists who never gave up!!"

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to BlackDelphin For This Useful Post:


  10. #159
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    An experiment with drawing cartoony faces. I enjoyed creating this ethnically diverse cast of portraits from a variety of shapes.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #160
    Lightship69's Avatar
    Lightship69 is offline Registered User Level 11 Gladiator: Essedarii
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,803
    Thanks
    875
    Thanked 927 Times in 794 Posts
    Hi Brandon

    I just thought I would swing by and see what youre up to buddy, and youre definately on the up mate. AS for your pens $250 or whatever dont sell them work with them find some tutorials online and get your moneys worth out of them mate.

    Oh and heres a link to the loomis books on .pdf format I dont know if you have them or not so here you go :-

    http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index..../andrew_loomis

    all the best matey and keep it coming.
    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Lightship69 For This Useful Post:


  13. #161
    Velocity Kendall's Avatar
    Velocity Kendall is offline Show me all the blueprints Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cambridge UK
    Posts
    5,290
    Thanks
    6,391
    Thanked 4,470 Times in 2,437 Posts
    its easier to learn markers on products as they can be more boxy and have less complex surfaces. then work up.
    pencils compliment them really well too as does scanning and PSing over the top. CTRL-Z +scanned marker drawings is excellent.

    http://www.idsketching.com/toolbox/m...orial-luggage/
    sb most art copied to page 1
    Weapons of Mass Creation 2011 ::: Add your favourites!
    skype: velocitykendall
    facebook: Alface Killah

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Velocity Kendall For This Useful Post:


  15. #162
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    These two studies, one of an arm and one of a male torso, are remarkable because whereas most of my anatomy studies were done using diagrams like the ones in the Loomis books, these were done using photographs. One thing I notice about photographs compared to anatomy diagrams is that people in photographs seem to wrinkle a lot more.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  16. #163
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Normally I wouldn't show these on ConceptArt.org since they're not particularly well drawn or colored, but I loved the ideas behind them so much that I still wanted to share them with people.

    The first drawing in this post was inspired by the Biblical myth of Adam and Eve, but it depicts a loving pair of Homo sapiens idaltu, ancestors of modern humans who lived 200,000 years ago. I actually titled it "The Real Adam and Eve" on DeviantArt.

    The second drawing is also romantic and has a Biblical inspiration, but this time I've drawn Jesus Christ having a passionate moment with his female disciple Mary Magdalene. There are rumors that Jesus and Magdalene were lovers or even a married couple, so I wanted to draw them together.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  17. #164
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Portrait of a Middle Eastern woman:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  18. #165
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Unfinished construction of a human face (I want to show people how I construct my portraits):
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  19. #166
    Lightship69's Avatar
    Lightship69 is offline Registered User Level 11 Gladiator: Essedarii
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,803
    Thanks
    875
    Thanked 927 Times in 794 Posts
    Brandon matey
    You really need to take a look back at the loomis figure drawing .pdfs the coloured guy and woman in post 163 are well off mate. The womans arms look like a skin coloured scarf around his neck and not attached to her at all!!

    However the coloured woman immediately below her has a really well constructed head indeed so well done.

    keep it up mate, like I said before there is improvement going on in here.
    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Lightship69 For This Useful Post:


  21. #167
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    I took a gander at Loomis's pdf on heads, and it inspired me to draw these quick sketches:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  22. #168
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Looking at the stick figures in Loomis's Fun With A Pencil somehow inspired me to draw something more modern and everyday than I usually do, so here's a Native American woman with a cup of coffee:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  23. #169
    Dayle's Avatar
    Dayle is offline Registered User
    Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sheffield - UK
    Posts
    527
    Thanks
    640
    Thanked 322 Times in 212 Posts
    Hello mate.

    Nice to see you're keeping up with your sketchbook. You seem to have lots of advice and things to do here! The only thing I think when looking at your work is that you tackling really difficult subjects! Faces are really hard at the best of times but you're choosing really complicated ones. I get that you're interested in cultural diversity and anthropology but it might be useful to find a famous actor or try a self portrait to study on to help understand construction. I hope its not rude of me to give advice like this because you clearly have a passion for what you draw and I would not want you to lose it by doing something you don't like.

    I've just been reading Burne Hogarths drawing the head book, it explains things differently and I prefer the style to Loomis (FYI).

    All the best, I'll be back to see how its going!

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to Dayle For This Useful Post:


  25. #170
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    Nice to see you're keeping up with your sketchbook. You seem to have lots of advice and things to do here! The only thing I think when looking at your work is that you tackling really difficult subjects! Faces are really hard at the best of times but you're choosing really complicated ones. I get that you're interested in cultural diversity and anthropology but it might be useful to find a famous actor or try a self portrait to study on to help understand construction. I hope its not rude of me to give advice like this because you clearly have a passion for what you draw and I would not want you to lose it by doing something you don't like.
    Faces actually aren't the most difficult subject matter for me (that would probably be architecture, furniture, and backgrounds in general). And what exactly is complicated about the faces I'm trying to draw?

  26. #171
    Dayle's Avatar
    Dayle is offline Registered User
    Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sheffield - UK
    Posts
    527
    Thanks
    640
    Thanked 322 Times in 212 Posts
    I was saying complicated because if you're studying from standard reference books like Loomis how to draw.... then applying those proportions and general rules to different head types and shapes, makes it more complicated. Maybe I should add a "in my opinion" Lol! I think heads are very hard to draw.

  27. #172
    Rhubix's Avatar
    Rhubix is offline I like turtles Level 8 Gladiator: Thracian
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    T.O via Newfoundland
    Posts
    1,206
    Thanks
    194
    Thanked 540 Times in 438 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher View Post
    Faces actually aren't the most difficult subject matter for me (that would probably be architecture, furniture, and backgrounds in general). And what exactly is complicated about the faces I'm trying to draw?
    Faces are very hard to draw, I think your not giving them enough credit.
    There are a lot of shapes coming together and they're all very mailable.
    If someone has a firm understanding of perspective there's no difference between a chair or a sky scraper but the same face can be different from one second to the next. (see drawing A.)
    That being said, I'm a lot better at faces than buildings for the same reason.
    Faces aren't set in stone, they can have big eyes, little eyes, a long jaw or short. The freedom in that is great for artist who are more exploratory in their drawing.
    Someone who is good at analytical thinking will be better at drawing structural things like robots and architecture.

    Anyways- onto some general advice I found helpful:
    You need to take the same care when doing any kind of studies. If your just copying what your seeing, your not learning as much as you could be.
    It's much better to try and understand what your studying- measure the proportions, work the subject out in perspective.
    it's not enough to look at a skull and draw a skull- you have to analyze the form of the skull - do a perspective study, do a tonal study- it will help you see the planes of the skull
    Don't copy the dark and light parts- think about why this part is dark and that part is light.

    And some more specific advice:
    in the study I've chosen below you've cut off the back of the character's head. - this is a common mistake new artists make.
    Also you haven't paid attention to the size of the eyes relative to one another, or the location of the ear in relation to the eyes.
    Another important step is to map out the center line of the face- make sure everything is lined up where it should be

    At first it's really tedious to measure out each piece and compare everything - but every time you do it you'll get a little faster. In time it will become second nature - you can visualize the guide lines in your head- are these eyes the same height? How high is the mouth supposed to be?

    I hope some of this is helpful You've been making good progress so far. - I think your hands and feet are very good for your skill level - so kudos for that
    best of luck with your studies- and happy sketching
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Rhubix For This Useful Post:


  29. #173
    Rafal Dorsz's Avatar
    Rafal Dorsz is offline Registered User Level 5 Gladiator: Myrmillo
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    454
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 210 Times in 121 Posts
    I think you need to put more effort into your studies. There isn't as much difference between page 1 and this page as there could be.
    Draw more stuff from life. Your perception of values and ability to accurately represent them on paper with a pencil is what I would focus on now. I looked through this thread real quick, and I saw some anatomy studies and some still lifes but I think you could put more effort into these.
    cheers
    It doesn't cost You much to leave a comment in my sketchbook, and it can help me a lot.

    My new sketchbook

    Follow me on facebook or WiPnation or Twitter!

  30. #174
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    1) Study of a leopard's contours (unfortunately the torso ended up being too short)

    2) Three still-lifes of things around my computer desk
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  31. #175
    Naidy's Avatar
    Naidy is offline Sinead Mckeefry, at your service. Level 12 Gladiator: Laqueatores
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,095
    Thanks
    2,269
    Thanked 895 Times in 798 Posts
    Hey, mate. Long time no gander.

    Been looking through I just think you reallllllyyyyyyy REAALLLYYY need to try harder to incorperate the advice given to you.

    See that reconstructed face by rhubix? I cannot stress enough how much you would learn if you actually revisited your study and fixed it to look like their's. I've seen your old sketchbook and there's really little progress, aside from the fact you're shading your faces and bodies a bit more. I feel the main problem is you're peeking at something like Loomis, doing some quick sketches, then disregarding it entirely and returning to your comfortable 'default' way of drawing.

    You need to work harder to intergrate their teachings into your own work. You will learn NOTHING from what you are doing if you do not try to put that knowledge to use.
    I was given this link a while back and it helped me understand I was doing a very similar thing.
    http://sirspamdalot.livejournal.com/81283.html

    Also; when you do a study, focus less on lines and more on construction and form. If you need me to explain I will do so, but that's all I have to say so far. Keep on working.
    Take a look? - Sketchbook -

    Also, why not check these guys too?
    Krysjez - Plissken - Clur
    Cheers

  32. #176
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    Honestly, I feel frustrated with art right now. People keep telling me to draw from life and do studies, but no matter how many times I do them, I don't seem to learn anything from them. All these studies teach me is how to draw something at a particular angle or in a particular pose and under particular lighting; I don't see how they can be applied to the things I draw from imagination. Am I stupid or something?

  33. #177
    Naidy's Avatar
    Naidy is offline Sinead Mckeefry, at your service. Level 12 Gladiator: Laqueatores
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,095
    Thanks
    2,269
    Thanked 895 Times in 798 Posts
    You're bound to feel frustrated; art is no easy process. Only a few of us will ever really get it.

    Basically, from what I can gather(Keep in mind I'm a begginer myself), you're not yet able to understand what you're drawing enough to construct your own figures on paper. Yes, books and diagrams will tell you how to draw something from a certain angle, but they're also telling you how to construct it yourself.
    You look at those Loomis heads. Look how he goes into great detail to explain how he bases his heads from a sphere and CONSTRUCTS from it. Don't you understand why he goes to the pain of explaining instead of just throwing ready drawn, perfect heads at you straight away?

    You, as an artist, are meant to grasp that foundation, that 'blueprint,' and internalise it, so that you can draw something, think about how to construct a head and change it accordingly. You can't do that yet because you're not yet getting the basics.

    When you do your studies, you're meant to be analysing just how and why what in front of you looks real. If you lack the understanding to draw what you see and understand why it looks realistic why do you expect to beable to beable to draw perfectly from the top of your head?

    The fact is, you still need to do a lot of work. And by a lot, I don't mean the odd page. I mean a life time of studying. Hard to hear, but to me that's the truth.
    Take a look? - Sketchbook -

    Also, why not check these guys too?
    Krysjez - Plissken - Clur
    Cheers

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to Naidy For This Useful Post:


  35. #178
    Brandon Pilcher's Avatar
    Brandon Pilcher is offline Dinosaurs and ancient warriors FTW Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 108 Times in 104 Posts
    I'm sorry to say that this was drawn and colored before I read the above recent criticisms, so it's not a technically terrific drawing, but I loved the underlying concept behind it so much that I couldn't resist sharing it. It's an African pygmy hunter vs a T. Rex:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  36. #179
    bish0p2004's Avatar
    bish0p2004 is offline Registered User Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl
    Posts
    632
    Thanks
    475
    Thanked 234 Times in 214 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher View Post
    Honestly, I feel frustrated with art right now. People keep telling me to draw from life and do studies, but no matter how many times I do them, I don't seem to learn anything from them. All these studies teach me is how to draw something at a particular angle or in a particular pose and under particular lighting; I don't see how they can be applied to the things I draw from imagination. Am I stupid or something?
    I know exactly what you mean about life drawing. But my thinking is, if so many people recommend it, then there most be some truth to it. As Naidy mentioned, it takes time.

    I think that a combination of learning from life, books, and critiques are the best way to learn. You learn things from books like basic shapes, form, reflected light, cast shadows, hard edges and lost edges, etc. Basically, you learn what to look for from books. Then, when you start looking, and drawing these things from real life, it starts connecting a little bit at a time.

    Getting your work critiqued (especially by people who are better than you) helps because it gives you insight into the errors that you don't see in your own artwork.
    My Sketchbook: Criticisms and Feedback needed

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu

  37. The Following User Says Thank You to bish0p2004 For This Useful Post:


  38. #180
    Velocity Kendall's Avatar
    Velocity Kendall is offline Show me all the blueprints Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cambridge UK
    Posts
    5,290
    Thanks
    6,391
    Thanked 4,470 Times in 2,437 Posts
    "Am I stupid or something?"

    You clearly are not stupid, as you can write intelligently about your subjects.

    What about:
    -using other media; ok so pen isnt working for you. Use paint. Or ink. Or watercolour. Or Photoshop. Actually use photoshop first as its the least messy and the easiest to play with.
    Try 3d software. Try clay. Try cloth. Wire. Crayon. Throw yoghurt at a wall and take photos of it. Draw faces on cans of paint with a marker pen Ian Stevenson style. Whatever. Etc.

    -drawing and painting abstract things. Currently all youve showen evidence of is some line drawings of some black guys and dinosaurs. Ive no idea why youre so obsessed with black guys and dinosaurs , your descriptions make me feel like I missed the post where you explained that, but maybe chill out on them just for a while. Moreover quite a few of them are verging on racial stereotypes that would be a bit offensive if I didnt know you were genuine.
    Try painting a swirling colour storm. Or a sky before it rains. Or a dream you once had. Or a red triangle attacking some gentle blue squares.
    No one can tell you drew them wrong because you made them up.
    Look up Kandinsky and Miro.

    -Draw other real, non-black guy things, ie bridges, houses, the view from your window, old family photos, space ships, mountains, trees, etc etc etc etc. Look up James Jean''s sketchbooks for more info.

    Give those things a try and see what happens. If youre stil not feeling it, maybe visual art isnt for you. Try playing the guitar. Or learning to ollie a skateboard. Or get really into maths. The worlds your clam baby.
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; August 11th, 2011 at 02:07 PM.
    sb most art copied to page 1
    Weapons of Mass Creation 2011 ::: Add your favourites!
    skype: velocitykendall
    facebook: Alface Killah

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 21st, 2010, 08:46 AM
  2. Quick Sketch Videos - Head drawing and Figure drawing
    By conceptartist in forum TUTORIALS, TIPS & TRICKS
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: October 2nd, 2009, 09:57 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 25th, 2008, 08:13 AM
  4. Los Angeles Drawing Group - Zoo Drawing Session on July 1, 11 AM
    By Rebeccak in forum CA.org Local Artist Groups
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 30th, 2007, 06:51 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 28th, 2006, 11:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •