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[DeadlyFreeze]

Not familiar with satire I take it.

[Brendan N]

Basically, the majority logic is not consequent but emotional and ill formed.

It reeks of non equality and sounds the same as if you have been sitting in a KKK convention. Or a typical southpark version of an american speech, it's basically an illogical babble with deep emotional movie soundtracks, and a dude going, YEAH!! every few seconds.

It's all very well flinging accusations like this around, but can you possibly put your arguments across in some moderately digestible strain of the English language?

I simply don't see a smidgen of this racism you speak of. This is a debate of ideas, not a rally against nature... and that's embarrassingly obvious. All the posts in here that I have read are superbly diplomatic and everyone here has taken the time to put well thought-out arguments forward.

You really aren't making any sense.... I'm sorry.

[George Abraham]

It's all very well flinging accusations like this around, but can you possibly put your arguments across in some moderately digestible strain of the English language?

I simply don't see a smidgen of this racism you speak of. This is a debate of ideas, not a rally against nature... and that's embarrassingly obvious. All the posts in here that I have read are superbly diplomatic and everyone here has taken the time to put well-thought out arguments forward.

You really aren't making any sense.... I'm sorry.

Yes, that was the work I was looking for "Superbly diplomatic"

You are disrespecting a cultural figure in spite or thier requests not to, that's racism.

[George Abraham]

Satire is again a explanation of what you are doing, not the effect of what you are doing.

I'm done with this. I am talking to myself.

I don't like negative vibes between cool people over stupid crap. There's allot of cool muslims in the world, I don't think the general idea created here is accurate or fair.

We all love the face value of what's happening and to be entertained by what's going on but that's often the incorrect version. Just like whatching American TV and then being in America, getting to know the dudes on a normal day to day kind of way and I'm not talking about Oprah who's salary is most probably more than I earn in a decade.

[s.ketch]

You are disrespecting a cultural figure in spite or thier requests not to, that's racism.

No it's not. Like not even close. If anything there is some strong nationality going on here but I have yet to see anyone bring race into it.

[the ANGRY filipino]

white rice and zaorr don't seem to be getting what the others here are trying to say..
its not racist to refuse to be intimidated by any extremist group.
why has this thread gone on this long? its either you are in with the proposed drawing day or not..

[George Abraham]

We are getting what you are saying but we choose not to take that angle because it's shallow, having thousands of people take the same view does not make it any less shallow.

Why not target extremist groups instead of people who love Mohammed?

Not every Muslim is an extremist. Why then be an American tyrant that opress people's religions? Is there any muslim that have been ripping off american images? NO

[LORD M]

Don't anyone agree that you might be putting people in your country at risk by your actions?

So we should just tolerate that they can threaten us with death when their religion is criticised or made satire of? Ok, let's see how they respect other religions, look at their view on the jews for example, it's disgusting. Religion is NOT above criticism, Islam or any other.

Pulling out the extremist group card is kinda admitting to knowing that you are.

This can go two ways you know.

[George Abraham]

Criticism. Is that what you call it. LOL!!!

Atleast we know the distortion has stopped in this thread.

What are you critisizing about their religion? Why don't you pull the list of facts seeng that that thee are so called criticism to give.

If I know what you are referring to maybe I'll agree and criticize with you. A Muslim might even agree with your criticism if they are accurate.

And if it's the extremists, why don't you target the extremist behaviour directly? Extremists represent a really small minority of muslims you know.

If you want everyinting to be fair game you will have to face the consequences and it depends on how much that fair game crap matters to you.
Maybe everyone in your country shag's everyone elses wives and get away with it I don't know. I have a right to critisice your disrespect for boundaries bacause you have verry little of it and maybe one day you will learn the value of boundaries and self dicipline. <- To who'm this may apply.

So if some Muslim goes and disgraces himself with whacking all kinds of cultures religions with a shopped picture, now it gives you the right to provoke them by acting the same stupid way?

[Kagemusha22]

[Brendan N]

Maybe everyone in your country shag's everyone elses wives and get away with it I don't know. I have a right to critisice your disrespect for boundaries bacause you have verry little of it and maybe one day you will learn the value of boundaries and self dicipline. <- To who'm this may apply.

Because misguided preaching is the best way to make a sound argument...

So if some Muslim goes and disgraces himself with whacking all kinds of cultures religions with a shopped picture, now it gives you the right to provoke them by acting the same stupid way?

No, you had that right all along - you don't need anybody to go batshit to magically hand that right to you. And, thankfully, immaturity is not a crime, it's a subjective judgement.>

[George Abraham]

Yah, well....

Shit will hit the fan regardless..

It's just got that smell to it.

[wardes]

Maybe everyone in your country shag's everyone elses wives and get away with it I don't know. I have a right to critisice your disrespect for boundaries bacause you have verry little of it and maybe one day you will learn the value of boundaries and self dicipline. <- To who'm this may apply.

I´ll let you know that its also the “everyones elses wife´s" choice if they want to shag or not. Im sure it wasn´t your intention, but it sounds a bit disrespectful. Dont take ofence if i decline to be taught your ideas of boudaries and self dicipline...

[Armonah]

I think this is all a huge viral campaign of Comedy Central and/or the South Park creators.

With all the response it's getting, it might as well be.

[nauvice]

I think its not racist only because there's lack of a better word. Hating Jews is anti-semitism, and Islam is generally, mostly an Ethnic Religion similar to Judaism. Anti-Muslim sentiments have stuck around ever since 9/11, and you constantly hear only the negative things done by people who happen to be Muslim in western mainstream news.

There's a lot of ethnocentric opinions in this thread (and elsewhere revolving this news). If feels like non Muslims who were already fed up are using this opportunity to relish their hate, not towards extremists of any kind, but muslims (or just religious people) in general.

I understand that may not be some of you guys' intent, but you should understand how other people might interpret it differently.

[nauvice]

Not sure, perhaps they might find that difficult, given that the mainstream Islamic law punishment (not just the fringe extremist) for apostasy is death.

Just want to say I appreciate this conversation, zwarrior made some points that gave me pause for thought, which is always a good thing. I just feel that sharing ideas leads to an improved understanding of the world for everyone, however silencing critical viewpoints through violence and threats (and indeed through the threat of unending, infinite torture for eternity once you die) just inhibits the growth of knowledge, and consequently inhibits the well-being of humanity at large. Trying to minimise offense is a noble cause, however supporting oppression through our action or inaction is pretty frigging ignoble.


What would be a preferable way to voice criticism of extremists than this cartoon idea? I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, I'd really like to know.

How I would do it personally, is make a farce of the extremist, instead of making fun of the rule. Even if you think the rule itself is stupid, but its the extremists who are enforcing it, and threatening others about it. Muslims who might respect that rule but wouldn't kill for it, might also take offense if its the rule that's being attacked.

For example, (Edit: better example is Animal rights activists who get carried away, if you're making an art to make fun of them, you wouldn't draw a puppy getting decapitated (who wouldn't be sad to see that?), but like, draw an activist who just killed a human for eating fish while in the background there's an alligator eating fish which the activist does nothing about. i dunno, I'm not good at thinking cartoon scenarios out of the blue)

Well, it isn't only extremists who think Mohammed should not be drawn, it's a general rule, the extremists are the only ones trying to enforce it on others, even by force.

I think this one that Fuzziest Johnson posted is pretty good. Even though the artist technically drew Mohammed, he made it obvious who he's making fun of with the character on the left, he's not just an average Muslim, he's hateful of others, he's being a hypocrite... its obvious the artist is making fun of an extremist.

[Arshes Nei]

Atleast we know the distortion has stopped in this thread.

Maybe everyone in your country shag's everyone elses wives and get away with it I don't know.

Not sure what point that was supposed to make, but I think we need to add some of this to the tags.

[BirdBirdBirdX3]

Mmm...I'm not sure. I mean what if you thought Mohammed was really cool and just want to celebrate and express that through a drawing. But some religion would put that person under death?...YET nobody actually knows how he looks like to begin with? What if someone drew George W. Bush and had an arrow pointing to it with the label "Mohammed."

[sharprm]

More practice. May 20 th is only 14 sleeps away.

[s.ketch]

Isn't writing his name a depiction though? The word Muhammad represents Muhammad. It's a graphic interpretation of the concept of Muhammad. It just doesn't involve as much visual detail as a drawing. Instead it's more of an abstract depiction, still a depiction none the less.

It's kind of like saying I can't draw an apple but we can write about apples all day long. Doesn't really make sense.

[nauvice]

yeah but Voldemort already took "He-who-must-not-be-named"

[Demonique768]

Isn't writing his name a depiction though? The word Muhammad represents Muhammad. It's a graphic interpretation of the concept of Muhammad. It just doesn't involve as much visual detail as a drawing. Instead it's more of an abstract depiction, still a depiction none the less.
It's kind of like saying I can't draw an apple but we can write about apples all day long. Doesn't really make sense.

It's just the image of Mohammad pbuh that is not allowed. It goes back to the theory don't worship the man but rather go to the direct source. People started worshiping Christ with the cross and so forth, he just didn't want the same thing happening where people start depicting his image and worshiping him. Really if everyone is so curious as to why and what read up on it. Muslims/Islam are depicted so 'evil' and granted there are many nuts and extremists but those idiots are condemned and gave up their rights to claim that they are Muslim the second they wanted to hurt anyone wrongfully.

Anywhoo yeah that's why apples taste great.

[George Abraham]

Distortists will Distort. It's a lost case, I should have known it when this thread popped up.

Why not just start a draw "Matt and Terry being killed by extremists" day?

Why would juice be misspelled? Because the shop artist was afraid. If they ever caught on with him he would have been the one in trouble with the juice.
It's one thing to draw a cartoon but to modify supposed reality. That could get that person in the frying pan. Thanx. It never made sense to me why this stuff ends up illogical or misspelled. That would be supplanting and not satire. I thought they made fun of the protester's stupidity. It didn't occur to me that they where avoiding possible prosecution.

Fun and games.

[s.ketch]

Distortists will Distort.

Distortists isn't a word. It's not anything. Don't be one of those people who puts an "ist" on everything you don't like and label people with it.

[George Abraham]

Whatever Matt.

[squidmonk3j]

yeah but The King in Yellow already took "He-who-must-not-be-named"

fixed.

[s.ketch]

Whatever Matt.

So I disagree with making up non-existent words to use as pejoratives which to you must only mean that I have identical ideologies to Matt?

There is a point where all of this should have ended and we've clearly passed it.

[sharprm]

Why would juice be misspelled? Because the shop artist was afraid. If they ever caught on with him he would have been the one in trouble with the juice.
It's one thing to draw a cartoon but to modify supposed reality. That could get that person in the frying pan. Thanx. It never made sense to me why this stuff ends up illogical or misspelled. That would be supplanting and not satire. I thought they made fun of the protester's stupidity. It didn't occur to me that they where avoiding possible prosecution.

Fun and games.

I just assumed they couldn't spell.
The Juice are the men who will not be blamed for nothing

[the ANGRY filipino]

We are getting what you are saying but we choose not to take that angle because it's shallow, having thousands of people take the same view does not make it any less shallow.

Why not target extremist groups instead of people who love Mohammed?

Not every Muslim is an extremist. Why then be an American tyrant that opress people's religions? Is there any muslim that have been ripping off american images? NO

About Muslims ripping off american images...you cannot definitely state that they do not do it...
but does burning the american flag count?
cause we have seen people do that..

yes, you can choose not to take part in what the others are saying/planning to draw. that is your right, in the same way that it is their right to choose to draw what they want.

And this may surprise you but just because people disagree with you doesn't mean their views are shallow.( surprise huh?)
What I find shallow is killing people just because they do not believe in the same religion that you do. What I find shallow is expecting people who do not share your faith to follow your religion's code of conduct.
What I find shallow is someone acting like a deranged bully and then hiding behind the veil of a religion when they get called out for their actions.
As for your taunts asking us to tackle the extremists directly...I think the artists involved in this event ARE doing that in the best way they know how..by drawing.

[George Abraham]

That's a classic muslim protester thing to burn stuff. It's a protester ritual burning of the flag.

How will they feel if we burn their favourite underwear?