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[nauvice]

maybe you should follow your own advices since I never called this thread racist. And yes there is a correlation between religion and ethnicity. Ignoring the universal thought that being Muslim correlates with being from the Middle East (/brown), doesn't make it any less true for the others who don't pretend this correlation doesn't exist.

A thread about physical violence against Matt and Trey has constantly been about Muslims, Mohammed, the Islamic rules and you guys' (mostly negative) opinions of them. This isn't "draw something to make fun of physical violence day", its "draw Moheemmad and lets show dem Muslems we dun care day! Amerikuh, fuk yeh!"

since the originator of this event quit it a while ago might hint that maybe some Muslims who are not violent, might still be offended by this, and it was not a good idea in the first place. But also ignore that. keep pretending you're really just against physical violence... and your only targets just happen to be Muslims. I mean where's the other news where people who aren't muslims resulted in physical violence? Like the many hitmen who are hired to silence journalists and others... but they don't count, not unless they're muslim.

well great thread, but I think we've all stressed our points already, and are just beating a dead horse.

[DamnDirtyApe]

Serious yes or no question;

Do you think that the guy who made Mohammad into a dog should be prevented from doing so because a group of people are offended by it?

Offending people never stopped any "artists" from doing that (and worse) to depictions of Jesus.. why stop now?

[s.ketch]

maybe you should follow your own advices since I never called this thread racist. And yes there is a correlation between religion and ethnicity. Ignoring the universal thought that being Muslim correlates with being from the Middle East (/brown), doesn't make it any less true for the others who don't pretend this correlation doesn't exist.

A thread about physical violence against Matt and Trey has constantly been about Muslims, Mohammed, the Islamic rules and you guys' (mostly negative) opinions of them. This isn't "draw something to make fun of physical violence day", its "draw Moheemmad and lets show dem Muslems we dun care day! Amerikuh, fuk yeh!"

since the originator of this event quit it a while ago might hint that maybe some Muslims who are not violent, might still be offended by this, and it was not a good idea in the first place. But also ignore that. keep pretending you're really just against physical violence... and your only targets just happen to be Muslims. I mean where's the other news where people who aren't muslims resulted in physical violence? Like the many hitmen who are hired to silence journalists and others... but they don't count, not unless they're muslim.

well great thread, but I think we've all stressed our points already, and are just beating a dead horse.

Naw man you're not backing out now. You quote the post where I insulted Muslims. You show me the post where I said I hated Islam.

[nauvice]

im sure you'll probably think of some excuse to weasel your way out of this, but right off the bat:

It's about a group telling us we can't draw their imaginary friend because it offends them.

what's that suppose to mean? Because in my understanding, atheists use the term "imaginary friend" in a demeaning way against the belief of any God of a religion- suggesting that believing in God is a childish game of pretending something exist.

To these people Mohammed is as real as the sun. You don't have to believe in it, but try not to be so condescending in how not childish you are for not being religious, k

[AlexEh]

I have no intention of pissing people off just because Matt and Tray do that for a living.

[Brendan N]

physical or verbal, violence is violence. They are both wrong. The swedish artist more-so for starting it.

I'll play along with that flimsy redefinition: So you believe equating physical violence with "verbal violence" is right? You don't see a problem with this kind of response to non-physical opinions?

Let me translate the question into secular terms: If a certain Chef got really offended by a customer's constant insults about the bad quality of the food, would assault by frying pan be justified?

Secondly, you say verbal violence is wrong. Could you explicate? Give examples of what's wrong and what isn't. Because I'm having some difficulty navigating the vagueness of it.

[s.ketch]

im sure you'll probably think of some excuse to weasel your way out of this, but right off the bat:



what's that suppose to mean? Because in my understanding, atheists use the term "imaginary friend" in a demeaning way against the belief of any God of a religion- suggesting that believing in God is a childish game of pretending something exist.

To these people Mohammed is as real as the sun. You don't have to believe in it, but try not to be so condescending in how not childish you are for not being religious, k

So because I criticized every religion I automatically hate Islam?

See the problem is you want to believe what you want but you don't want anyone else to challenge those beliefs. For the 9001st time it's been said in this this thread, this is not how free speech works. You want to do what youwant but nobody should be able say anything about it. So I tell you what. In the spirit of equality I will draw you, and anyone else who thinks this way, right beside Muhammad.

Apparently we all have the right to our own beliefs as long as we don't exercise them.

[George Abraham]

This week I have descovered my dignity and how stupid it is to keep falling over it. It's hard to not get roused by these threads and I don't think it's uncommon for anyone to get en-flamed by these topics.

Love-hate vs Right-Wrong is clashing really badly at the moment. I need to spend time to meditate.

For me personally, Religion is a bad topic. For the life of me there's other stuff that's much more entertaining,soothing and rewarding.

I have had my time Criticizing my own Religion and being angry with it, It doesn't stop. When you let go allot of stuff makes sense and the bible is one big record of human inequity and what happens all the time anyway. People losing their cool, even god's losing their cool. None of that stuff can be taken as perfection, in fact there's little example of perfection in there. I think Eleisha was the only perfect person in there and maybe Abraham.

[sharprm]

I don't see why Muslims can't see this in terms of people wanting to protect the rights and laws that make secular countries great.

Why do they have to see it as an attack on their religion? Insulting the prophet isn't the intent (and it isn't even mandatory) it's collateral damage. It's not like anyone went and posted this as a reason for proceeding with may 20 th:

[Man Made God]

correlation between those who are for this and are atheist is no coincidence.

Correlation between those who are against this and those who support violence against peaceful, non-violent people is no coincidence.

physical or verbal, violence is violence. They are both wrong. The swedish artist more-so for starting it.

Totally agree, he should have been beheaded for such flagrant displays of immorality. He is the worst type of terrorist, one that uses dangerous words and images to assualt our most beloved ideals. When will the bloodshed end?!

To these people Mohammed is as real as the sun.

And if we see people worshipping the sun, we laugh our asses off....

[Jason Rainville]

I mean where's the other news where people who aren't muslims resulted in physical violence? Like the many hitmen who are hired to silence journalists and others... but they don't count, not unless they're muslim

Enlighten us. We don't know about those guys.

but it's silly to bring that up; One group is bound to a dogmatic code handed down from their prophets and gods that they cannot challange. They likely have OPINIONS on this matter that could possibly change, or at least with a large enough showing of what they see as offensive, they may give up and realise that freedom of expression is something that won't go away.

Those other (nameless) guys are (supposedly) HIRED, meaning they're in for it for the money. They also proabably don't all belong to the same international club of. How in fuck is drawing something against them going to do a damn thing? You might as well try an inspirational speech with an assasin.

As for targeting muslims, damn that's funny, because in the other religion threads we get accused for only criticising Christians...

[Brendan N]

As for targeting muslims, damn that's funny, because in the other religion threads we get accused for only criticising Christians...

And, to be fair, it's really not just religion. It's all the bullshit out there - and there's too much of it to cover in a single thread. Ask me and I will tell you that homeopathy is a scam and hypnotherapists are professional thieves. And you can disagree the shit out of me, but you'll need to produce evidence or a sound argument to convince me - at which point I'll carve "fancy that!" into the side of my cock.

But accusing someone of homing in on a specific issue doesn't nullify their argument.

[Christopher Genovese]

well buck, Im glad the truth finally comes out, this is just another anti-religion thread in disguise.

correlation between those who are for this and are atheist is no coincidence.

Is that supposed to be a point you're making? Cause I missed it. Please explain.

[Christopher Genovese]

Totally agree, he should have been beheaded for such flagrant displays of immorality. He is the worst type of terrorist, one that uses dangerous words and images to assualt our most beloved ideals. When will the bloodshed end?!

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm a little slow, but did you SERIOUSLY intend to say you think someone should be BEHEADED for an "assualt" on your "beloved ideals?"

Am I reading this correctly? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, cause Man Made God, you sound like Osama Bin Laden.

[Sir_E_Pent]

You know, there was not this much controversy over South Parks interpritation of God when Kenny went to heaven. These guys mad God look like a duckbull platipus with extrimities of all sorts of animals. Well, And thats what's up.

[Man Made God]

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm a little slow, but did you SERIOUSLY intend to say you think someone should be BEHEADED for an "assualt" on your "beloved ideals?"

Am I reading this correctly? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, cause Man Made God, you sound like Osama Bin Laden.

I was joking, read my whole comment. If it isn't obvious after that, then I fail at internet.

[sharprm]

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm a little slow, but did you SERIOUSLY intend to say you think someone should be BEHEADED for an "assualt" on your "beloved ideals?"

Am I reading this correctly? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, cause Man Made God, you sound like Osama Bin Laden.

He was missing the (satire) or (hyperbole) flag.

[Christopher Genovese]

what's that suppose to mean? Because in my understanding, atheists use the term "imaginary friend" in a demeaning way against the belief of any God of a religion- suggesting that believing in God is a childish game of pretending something exist.

To these people Mohammed is as real as the sun. You don't have to believe in it, but try not to be so condescending in how not childish you are for not being religious, k

If someone were to use the term "imaginary friend" in talking about a god or prophet, I agree it would be derisive and meant to be demeaning. But it's also their right to say it. I'm of the opinion that anyone who responds to words or images with physical violence already demeans themselves, and proves that they're not worth taking seriously. In other words, if you're going to start screaming and hitting people, you're not allowed in the club house and you should go get your own.

When you choose to accept a proposition (such as those found in religion) that so easily comes in conflict with the culture of others, you're disguising a demand for authority behind a conviction, and this is expressed when you react with violence against all who don't behave as you want them to. You don't have to imagine what happens when people like come to power, you can find it in history (see: The Dark Ages). The only way we get past our cultural conflicts peacefully in this rapidly over-populating world is through good old-fashioned, free speech-enabled conversation.

I agree people should TRY not to be condescending, but when it comes to religion, believers can be so absurdly sensitive that a serious person who doesn't share their beliefs has little chance of saying anything without someone getting offended, as I probably am right now.

To anyone who honestly thinks we should all tip-toe around people's feelings, self-censoring our words and our art for the rest of our lives, I just have to say I don't WANT to offend anyone, but I'm not going to be BULLIED either. THAT'S why I for one am going to DRAW MUHAMMAD on MAY 20th!

Note: This response is not specifically directed at the person quoted, it's just a general comment aimed at no one. The quote is just providing context for the thought.

[Christopher Genovese]

I was joking, read my whole comment. If it isn't obvious after that, then I fail at internet.

Hahaha, okay. Sorry about that. This threads just getting me so riled up I can't think straight. I fail at internet. Thanks for clarifying.

[Man Made God]

Hahaha, okay. Sorry about that. Oh man, it's hard to keep track of all these comments and tone is tough to interpret in the written word. Thanks for clarifying.

Well, what should be obvious sarcasm can go wrong wherever religious extremists are concerned. Contradiction and exaggeration actually make the "crazy guy statement" more authentic, can't believe I didn't see it coming.

[sharprm]

If someone were to use the term "imaginary friend" in talking about a god or prophet, I agree it would be derisive and meant to be demeaning. But it's also their right to say it. I'm of the opinion that anyone who responds to words or images with physical violence already demeans themselves, and proves that they're not worth taking seriously. In other words, if you're going to start screaming and hitting people, you're not allowed in the club house and you should go get your own.

When you choose to accept a proposition (such as those found in religion) that so easily comes in conflict with the culture of others, you're disguising a demand for authority behind a conviction, and this is expressed when you react with violence against all who don't behave as you want them to. You don't have to imagine what happens when people like come to power, you can find it in history (see: The Dark Ages). The only way we get past our cultural conflicts peacefully in this rapidly over-populating world is through good old-fashioned, free speech-enabled conversation.

I agree people should TRY not to be condescending, but when it comes to religion, believers can be so absurdly sensitive that a serious person who doesn't share their beliefs has little chance of saying anything without someone getting offended, as I probably am right now.

To anyone who honestly thinks we should all tip-toe around people's feelings, self-censoring our words and our art for the rest of our lives, I just have to say I don't WANT to offend anyone, but I'm not going to be BULLIED either. THAT'S why I for one am going to DRAW MUHAMMAD on MAY 20th!

Someone should put together a strong proviso/preamble/ you can stick in the description (if u post on say deviant art) that says may 20th is about, kinda like above.

[Christopher Genovese]

Someone should put together a strong proviso/preamble/ you can stick in the description (if u post on say deviant art) that says may 20th is about, kinda like above.

Too much pressure.

[sharprm]

Would this do?

[Black Spot]

I have much better things to do, but if I ever decide to draw Mohammed, I will be wanting to do a kick ass picture and not some trite tripe for no other reason than insulting someone.

[Armonah]

Well, what should be obvious sarcasm can go wrong wherever religious extremists are concerned. Contradiction and exaggeration actually make the "crazy guy statement" more authentic, can't believe I didn't see it coming.

Yup, it's called Poe's law.
However, the amount of radicals (of any kind, really) on CA.org is so low that you can be pretty sure it doesn't apply to anyone here, unless they're trolling or parodying.

[Christopher Genovese]

I have much better things to do, but if I ever decide to draw Mohammed, I will be wanting to do a kick ass picture and not some trite tripe for no other reason than insulting someone.

Embedded in that remark is the assumption that the point of this all is simply to hurt someone's feelings. For the millionth time: this is a protest, an exercise of free speech in response to death threats against fellow artists. I think it's a worthwhile effort.

Anyone who will be insulted by our drawings are already ill-equipped to live in the 21st century.

[Christopher Genovese]

Yup, it's called Poe's law.
However, the amount of radicals (of any kind, really) on CA.org is so low that you can be pretty sure it doesn't apply to anyone here, unless they're trolling or parodying.

That's pretty awesome. Never heard of Poe's Law. Definitely going to remember that one.

[Black Spot]

A protest is all well and good, but demeaning a religion to get your point across demeans you and your art. I don't mind what people do, but I don't want to see tons of bad art for no other reason than a protest. If you're going to do it, do it well.

[Christopher Genovese]

A protest is all well and good, but demeaning a religion to get your point across demeans you and your art. I don't mind what people do, but I don't want to see tons of bad art for no other reason than a protest. If you're going to do it, do it well.

It just strikes me as a contradiction to advise someone to get their point across while keeping their mouth shut. If anything demeans a religion, its the followers with totalitarian sensibilities like those who can't abide the free speech of others without murdering them or making threats of violence.

see:


And in regards to the matter of quality and dignity of my own art, that's just a risk I'll have to take as a creative person. Personally, I draw stupid shit all the time, doesn't make me feel bad about myself.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[nauvice]

To anyone who honestly thinks we should all tip-toe around people's feelings, self-censoring our words and our art for the rest of our lives, I just have to say I don't WANT to offend anyone, but I'm not going to be BULLIED either. THAT'S why I for one am going to DRAW MUHAMMAD on MAY 20th!

wut. Page 9 so far in this thread and yet nothing is learned...

I for one don't want to be BULLIED either, so that's why I plan on starting a Draw a Decapitated Puppy day! We'll teach those PETA extremists a lesson for threatening to trow blood at my favorite celebrity, Paris Hilton, for wearing fur. Granted other puppy lovers who are not even a part of those PETA extremists will be offended by my drawing too, but the hell so?! It's my goddam rite to draw something offensive to a wide range of people, just because a few of the crazy ones are bullying Paris Hilton.