Team Chow III :: VOTING

[Janos]

Hey deastwen, me andmy team mate Raoul Duke were discussing wether to send you the high res images or not, so I would just like to ask what exactly you are planning on doing with them? Limited prints? Free fore everyone to buy?
Also, our entries sadly are one with the borders, I mean that teh border is an element of the image, so I would like to ask if that would be a big problem if we decide to send the high res version to you?

[Niva.]

will i be added to the poll?

I think your avatar needs to be added to the poll, that's just awesomesauce avatar man. Cheers!

Daestwen I also want to hear about the printed deck, what is the plan with that?

[daestwen]

icon: woops! Yes, I'll do that now. I meant to do it before but got so flustered with the photobucket stuff! edit: there you go!

Janos Yeah that's fine. The deck is a bit eclectic anyway

As for the printed deck:

My plan was first to see if it was possible (aka, that I could get all the cards and that they would be suitable size to print, ect), then to take a poll on how many would be interested in a copy, etc. If only a few people want one, then the easiest way is to do a limited set and charge just the printing cost for each ordered.

If enough people are interested then I'll look at options of doing a full printing + then working out profit share among all the artists.

If no one is interested in doing a printing, but some of the artists are interested in getting a full set at hi-res so they can print off a copy on their home computers themselves, we'll discuss that. :]

Mostly right now I want to make sure it's doable before going any further.

[Rambozo]

As for the printed deck:

My plan was first to see if it was possible (aka, that I could get all the cards and that they would be suitable size to print, ect), then to take a poll on how many would be interested in a copy, etc. If only a few people want one, then the easiest way is to do a limited set and charge just the printing cost for each ordered.

If enough people are interested then I'll look at options of doing a full printing + then working out profit share among all the artists.

If no one is interested in doing a printing, but some of the artists are interested in getting a full set at hi-res so they can print off a copy on their home computers themselves, we'll discuss that. :]

Mostly right now I want to make sure it's doable before going any further.

As far as getting a full deck goes : I'm sure you could get some of us here to put out on the missing cards. Split it around, shouldn't be more than one card each.

[Razorleaf]

As someone who has been reading Tarot for many years I found the imagary in the paintings vividly beautiful but so many lacked the true meaning behind the cards. So I based my choice on the cards themselves. I choose the teamdustbunnies because I felt that they were the most consistent with their imagary and the renderings are lovely.

Excellent work everyone!

[Ilaekae]

I've already started the few cards that everybody apparently thought "weren't interesting enough."

two of swords
three of wands
six of wands
seven of cups
eight of wands
nine of swords
King of swords
ten of Pentacles (redo)

...and i have the intention to do them in a cyber/mecha/insectoid image WITHOUT losing the symbolic structure of the cards. If I have time, I'll start on the others below.

The World
knight of wands
queen of cups
three of pentacles

I'm going to ditto Razorleaf, and go one step further, which should get a lot of people really pissed at me...

You've turned in incredible art. You've turned in some very creative approaches that would make anyone proud. BUT...many of you didn't do a FUCKING Tarot Card. The cards have symbols and detail meanings that make them TAROT, not a nice portfolio piece. If I were an art director viewing many of the pieces submitted, I'd reject more than a few that just don't solve the problem as given by daestwen. Sorry about that, but the reference/research for the meanings of the imagery was readily available, and I'd have to say that many of you didn't even bother looking at it.

What you did was nice. What many of you did was also fail...and there was no reason for that. Concept art is a mental process as well as an execution of art.

[arttorney]

I think these comments may have stemmed from the viewpoint of the Tarot as a divinatory tool, because as a novelty deck of image cards I think this could be an interesting product. For that reason, I want the deck completed. I would at least like to have a few copies for myself even if I have to buy them.

I think there is a low likelihood this deck would come to supplant the Rider Waite deck or that Marseille one, because a person most likely to buy a tarot deck is the person who is most likely to have similar misgivings about the "creative license" that was employed here. It doesn't instill confidence if in the middle of a reading you have to get out the manual because you can't really figure out what the card was supposed to mean.

The Tarot is also used in Europe as a deck of playing cards. Some folks presented cards that were a little ambiguous as to which card it was, and that makes it a very difficult deck to play cards with. Sometimes card games happen fast. Sometimes the players are tipsy. Usually the discard pile is in disarray. It helps if there are plenty of cues about the identity of the card to help the players along. I have an extended bunch of in-laws from Spain and maybe they know some of those games.

Not really trying to rant here. I could just see the time had come for the ritual airing of

[daestwen]

Though I appreciate the sentiment, Ilaekae, I'm not sure about the way it was given.

How about vaguely talking about people who 'didn't get it', you mention the people / cards you think did get it very well?

As for myself, I have probably over two dozen different decks... but the meanings were never as important to me as the imagery, so I am totally and completely biased towards 'pretty', i'm afraid. :]

There are a few where I wouldn't generally associate the image with the meaning meant, but I find that true even with some professional decks.

[Muninn]

Actually Ilaekae, to our defense (cause I assume our cards are amongst the once you criticize) we did look up the meaning of each card but we had to conclude that most of them where so typically broad described that they didn't really mean anything at all without a context (to me tarot is about how you read and how you put that what you read into context, which is obviously not related to the illustration).
So we decided on purpose to treat the cards as a broad concept rather than a piece with a set meaning. This gave us a lot of room to be creative of which I think is just as much (dare I say even more so) a mental process as translating a card and the list of words that are given as it's meaning literally. To me its a matter of being open minded and creative = being an artist. Of course this is personal.

Daestwen, when I have all 8 of them together I'll send them to you.

[arttorney]

I like your set. You were closely in the running for the "edgy modern" vote that I ended up giving to the team with the skateboarding two of pentacles and the Sun and the Tower. I made the distinction based on values and readability. Your sense of humor was probably better and I particularly got a kick out of the Six of Cups.

It will just help a half blind old drunkard like me a little bit If you separate out the hue or values of the card identifier writing further from the local color information.

About those other guys: I can see that your major arcana are on a different color field than the minor arcana and that you organized the presentation in an orderly manner that makes that evident. Some people really go for such subleties (or even deeper bits of code) and so I applaud that. I had a painting of a pile of cards in a gallery show once where the cards were marked in Mayan numerals and all the prime numbers were a different color and some guy stood looking at that one a long time. I remarked to a friend and she said "Oh that's my dad. He's a mathematician." (I hadn't told anyone there was a pattern but he was deciphering it) You never really know what kind of a thing will draw a person in, but patterns are cool as far as I am concerned.

[Ilaekae]

I could have put what i said a little more diplomatically, daes', and I am sorry for that, but my comments were on a tendency I see a lot here on the forum and it upsets me as a teacher/professional. It's difficult to get across to someone who is trying to be really creative with their imagery when they attempt something that there are often certain "required" factors that must be met in the process, and I'm going to point it out whenever I see it, hopefully without embarrassing or pissing off any specific person(s). That's not my intent, and it would not serve any useful purpose. I especially brought it up in light of the fact that the original challenge showed a sight lean toward the Waite deck imagery as a starting point.

Sorry to all who thought I was jumping on you specifically. I definitely wasn't, but I still hold to what I said as a valid "universal" criticism. Other than that, the material turned in was exceedingly professional, creative, and very attractive.

The challenges, all of them here on the forum, are a good bit more lenient than the real world, and that's as it should be, but we as a group can't ever forget that most of the people here are working toward a career in various very real fields in the very real world, so I don't think a reminder once in a while is out of line...

[cotletan]

Voted for:

1. The (B)Rat Pack
2. Team Pirate Cats
3. Team Dust Bunnies
...in that order

The (B)Rat Pack was no.1 in my eyes. Loved the concept, the colors, the atmosfeer, everything. Congrats! Great work.


Also liked, but no vote for:

1. Shamagim's team
Would have voted for you if all the pics had the same quality level. "Eight of cups" is realy cool

2. Team Ace Holes
Good work keeping all the pics in the same story so to say.

3. Team Steamboat
Cool concept, but didn't do it for me.

4. The Atomic Superman Society
Nine and five of cups should have been as crispy as "the hermit". "Judgement", although a good illustration, I feel it doesn't go perfectly with the others.

5. The Awesome Sexy People Club
Very cool concept, but not all of the pics have the same rendering style. "The hermit" looks the best imo.


Great work from everybody. This was by far the best round I've ever seen in CHOW. I'm really impressed, I'll tell you that.

[Rambozo]

Alright, finally made time for a quick 'round of crits . On with the nitpicking !!!


Pirate Cats : Killer team-logo, that started things off well for you When I read the meaning of each card and look at your images I can pretty much immediately see the translation into visuals, which is quite important given the task at hand. For instance I had no idea what the 10 of swords was about, but lookin' at this guy I figured f+ck me he has been put down something fierce. Extra points for that.

I particularly loved your cards in your sketchbook, and the final version are still very nice here but somehow now with the colours they seem to have lost a lot of their appeal for me. I feel the colours are a bit wishy-washy, mostly in the backgrounds, which is particularly disappointing to me seein' as how I'd followed your work process. That being said they're still killer illustrations : look at the eight of swords or hell that ten of swords is SICK ! Talk about a stab in the back


Cosmic Hussars : Whhhhyyyy !?? I know it's been said before but I loved that poster-feel you gave to your original finals so much. I thought it was so simple but effective. Although there is more graphism now and visual elements, in this case unfortunately I find it takes so much away from the pieces, distracts the eye away from great illustrations.


Doomsday Dream Clan : That gritty feeling you added to the 2 of wands card is quite nice. Not too overstated and yet it makes all the difference in the world. Unfortunately this extra quality makes it stand out as the other cards don't seem to have received the same "scratching" (or at least not as much). I find it would have tied in all the cards wonderfully if you'd managed to add that extra touch to the others.


Vampire Churritos : That eight of cups is sick. All through the design process I could tell this one was gona be good, even the discarded sketches rocked The fool also stands out. Although I liked the Moon illustration, I didn't know what card I was looking at until I spotted the name. Looking at it closely ok I can see the crescent-moon-head gear, but it wasn't obvious to me from the get go who these two characters were. I also find the borders a touch drab, but given the quality of the illustrations I think something to eye-catching would have been a mistake.


White Rabbit : I was disappointed when I saw you chose to cover-up your "star". I know there's a reluctance to portray nudity floating about sometimes, but in this case the lack of clothes made her look more like a "star" (somehow ??), where as now with the latex-suit she reminds me maybe of some regular ol' starship-pilot. The colours are quite nice though.


Clan Serpentine : Love that star At the moment it feels a little like she's sliding towards the lower left given the perspective of the basin's base in relation to the vertical tree & the horizon, but other than that my what a great card !


Atomic Superman Society : Post apocalyptic ? What a good theme, and it really paid off for you guys too. That judgement card is sick (and I should know I worked on ours ) The white hood/cape sorta reminds me of Dark Horse's "Ghost", only this one works better hehe And the mega-phone in lieu of a horn ? Excellent touch. Diggin' the overall colours on your cards. The hermit stays true to the card symbolism and yet pulls you right out into your own universe (must be the gas mask hehe). It's a shame you didn't finish that 5 of cups Adam, I was lookin' forward to that one.


Awesome Sexy People Club : I've said it before but the six of cups idea was brilliant. The whole set, the animal house vibe, innovative for a tarot deck and quite fun I didn't get the hermit straight-up, but when I read the name I thought wow they pulled it off. I also like the simple borders with hand writing and stains etc. they work perfectly with your theme. Simple, non-distracting, and they work.


(B)Rat Pack : the illustration quality is impeccable. Love the colours, the feel, the simplified element of the tree in the Hermit even, and the two of Wands is fantastic. But if I'm only gona be givin' you praise then what's the point of a critique right ? My qualm has to do with the fact that I don't feel like there was too much conceptual research behind the creation of these characters (of course this might be very far from the truth). Now what I mean by that is when I look at these cards I see great illustrations, but I don't see one that screams out "look at the design on ME !". These characters are mostly semi-nude/with conventional-ish clothing and given the fact that this is ConceptArt I would have liked to have seen something a little "more". But, don't let me discourage you, I've pretty much settled on this set as my favourite deck, and most definitely your Two of Wands as my favourite card

[Niva.]

What a great CHOW, I really enjoyed being part of this and learned a lot this time. Especially enjoyed the WIP sketchbooks for Pirate Cats (b&W art blew my mind), Ace Holes, and the Vampire Churrittos. Congrats to everyone who finished.

A side note question, why did Team CHOW 3 get so little exposure? The voting thread was only viewed 5k times? Considering the amount of work some great artists put in that's a shame. We got less than half the votes than during team CHOW 2. Maybe it was the topic that was not so popular but it really is a shame that we got very little attention by the community. I get emails from ca.org admins almost daily now about awarded scholarships and while that's great I would've much more appreciated a link to this thread if I didn't know about it.

Cheers!

[arttorney]

I don't know the specific answers to your questions, although in general it looks like The Art Department is a project closely tied to the future direction of the site, while Team CHOW is more in the nature of recurring activity.

If people were still working on the remaining cards and posting proposed examples of those remaining cards in this thread then people might still be checking in on a regular basis.

[paberu]

Agree with you Niva, I was hoping for the Team Chow 3 to be a little bit bigger - with more teams and traffic to push everyone even further.

Instead we get emails daily about TAD, nothing mentioning anything else going on in the community.

Anyway well done to everyone who made it to the end, it's pretty tough to make it through this amount of work while working in a team.