Team ChoW III - Utopian Battleship

[Irrlaeufer]

I'm not so familiar with the mesoamericans. Tried to find some decent images of their clothing but it's kind of difficult. Photography wasn't invented when their cultures got extinguished and the way they depicted themselves in stone engravings looks artsy but not so much in the way that it's a suitable style for CHOW I guess. Does anybody know some movies for that purpose? Like Apocalypto or something?

[Nike]

I have tons of pics, also of textiles... the images in the codices, on the vases, and the stucco/wallpainting are similar to the egyptian stuff - they are "flat", but give you a general idea about the clothing ...
I will try to find more textile pics in the evening... I know I have some in books that I could scan

but I don't think you have to stick 1:1 to the refs - you can use the symbolic language for your creation - include the symbols in the dresses, background etc...

[Irrlaeufer]

I want to collect the links and summarize them in the initial posting so that we have a overview. I think it's easier to browse that way. Nike, the google book link you posted doesn't work and I don't know how to fix it either. Maybe you can post it again.

[Nike]

great that you are collecting all the links - thanks!

hm, they changed to a limited preview... http://books.google.at/books?id=resU...age&q=&f=false
not many interesting pics, so I think we can leave that aside.

[Nike]

some pics:

Maya murals from Bonampak (Mexico) displaying warriors, chiefs, nobles...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...collection.jpg

+ reconstructed? mayan costumes + burial mask
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...yacostumes.jpg

not mesoamerican, but precolumbian stuff from Peru:
Peru, Moche culture, Lord of Sipán burial (costumes, adornments)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...collection.jpg

Inca mummies: "La Doncella" and a reconstruction of "Juanita Ice maiden's" clothing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...icemaidens.jpg


Please save the images on your computer if they are of any use for you, since I'm not sure about image rights etc. I will remove them after a few days.

[Irrlaeufer]

The mummy is 500 years old but she looks like she is sleeping. Interesting stuff.

[mimer]

hallo i think i dig the southamerican/american angle better than egyptian/asian, not because its bad inspirationally, but because the egyptian and asian themes are so prevalent in influencing all sorts of things lately, and mesoamerican stuff a bit less so.

i guess whatever we choose we will have to boil it down to something tangible, like use of golds, certain colours, symbols, jewellery/design that we find. combine that with the other part of the theme like scifi, deep ocean explorers (tyoed with that thought as i was chugging home from work on the train) or something else for a cool mix

have to go and read up on tarot too, only got basic knowledge of the concepts

for some inspirational tarot art, check this out:

http://www.shadowscapes.com/Tarot/cardsmain.php?suit=0

that deck blows my fragile little mind, and with bloody watercolours too...

[mimer]

We are go

I've recently come across a program called etherpad, which is a kind of free document handler online which makes it easy to put together shared documents. it was bought up by google and in danger of beeing shut down, but was later released for open use and a number of versions are now hosted on the net. i picked one and started out a doc for us, check it out and see if its something you think we could use for keeping our ideas in an orderly fashion we'll still use the thread a lot, not least for all the art we will be producing, but this doc is easier to use for the general ideas than having it spread out over the thread or having someone editing the first post each time we want to alter something about it.

Check it out in the link below, write in your name to the left, pick a colour and edit away

http://piratepad.net/utopianbattleship

[Nike]

Happy new year everyone!

mimer - that's a nice idea and thanks for the link to the watercolor deck

I think idea to do thumbnails and general ideas for each card is very good - I think it's easier to see where we'll go if we have some general ideas, too.

Will start sketching now - since my scanner died yesterday, it might take a few days till I'm able to show some sketches, or I'll do some digi sketches, too - I'll see. I feel more comfortable sketching with pencil

[Irrlaeufer]

Yay. It's from the pirate party cool program! I think somebody in another thread offered invitations for google wave which is still in an open beta as far as i know. Maybe we can get our hands on that, too. Just to try it out, I'm curious since it gets hyped so much.

Here is a first rough sketch for the empress. Haven't figured out how to add media files to the pirates pad:

[mimer]

dont think you can use the pad for piccies, so we are probably better off with all the picture goodness on here, both reference and our own work.

[Nike]

nice start!

since she's an empress, it might help to make the pic more interesting if you show her from a lower viewpoint? Might add a stronger and more confident feel.

[instinct]

Hey all, sorry I've been inactive the last few days, i was deep in the Canadian wilds over New Years, I'll go over the thread and throw some thumbnails up asap!

edit::

Okay, I did some reading!
I'll try to have my initial thumbnails up (and legible) for discussion by the end of the weekend. I'm excited to see everyone's ideas!

This piratepad is very interesting, I'm going to have to remember it for future uses.

[mimer]

cool, check out our nifty pad too:

http://piratepad.net/utopianbattleship

[instinct]

Hey all, just finished reinstalling Photoshop. For some reason it started running really slowly, so i said to hell with it and did a clean install.

To celebrate I did a few quick thumbnails for the Five of Swords while watching Discovery Channel.

My plan for the Five of Swords is to depict a successful and smug character, who is obviously successful in his/her profession as a military officer or mercenary. Well dressed and postured, depicting a self-satisfaction or inflated ego.


In the first image you can clearly see the motif i will probably use no matter what the final image, the painted heraldry or icon of 5 swords pointing towards the characters throat, i wanted this to symbolize some of the meanings of the tarot card when it is reversed. His hands are behind his back, as if posing for a portrait after a battle or victory.

The second image is a woman this time, standing over an 'altercation', her 5 swords spent on the enemy, she has one hand behind her back in military fashion, and is analyzing her other hand, perhaps for any blood that has made its way under her fingernails.

The third is more of a basic pose, from the front, in a light environment, the armour would be overly elaborate complete with a full 'akuma' mask. the aim of this one would be to showcase the wearers confidence in his/her elaborate armour and weaponry, complete with hands on hips.

[Raoul Duke]

YYYYAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR! Battleship Sunk!

[Irrlaeufer]

some sketches for the 3 of Swords, respectivley 3 of Wands just in case I swap cards. I toyed around in photoshop a little. These were done using references of postures that I liked in order to see how they would work in a composition of three. Not sure if depicting three characters isn't gonna be too much work.

[mimer]

cool to see your stuff I think i will have something up by tomorrow, been sketching on the way to and from work on the commute Will probably try to include some elements and ideas from classic decks and try to give a new spin on them.

Instinct: from the three thumbs, i think the middle one is definitely the most interresting and dynamic, the other two would showcase the design of the armour better perhaps, but the middle one just feels so much more loaded with the symbolism of the five of swords as well as beeing more dynamic.

Irrlaeufer: personally, i think i like the last of those compositional sketches best for the 3 of swords.

really dig the face of the empress, and the headgear. agree with nike on putting the horizon line even lower on her pic though, so that she seems above you, all regal and whatnot

[instinct]

Thanks Mimer. I'm leaning towards her as well, I double-checked the final size we have to use and after seeing Irrlaeufer's thumbs on the same scale I think the second thumb will work best squished. Since she's further back I'll get all of her in frame and possibly even enhance the perspective because of it too.

Working on my Thumbnails for the Two of Cups today, I'll either have a few to show in an hour(if I'm lucky), or more than likely in about 10 hours, some times thumbnails and ideas are a hell of a time to get to click -_-.

I really like the second to last thumbnail Irrlaeufer, its filled with dynamism, very cool feeling to it.

[instinct]

Finished some initial thumbnails, not sure where I'm going to end up so any input is appreciated!

The card is more geared towards marriage and the like, but I didn't want to end up with a card that was basically a copy of the Major Arcana - Lovers card, so i decided to stretch the meaning as much as possible while retain its 'feeling', if that makes sense. The whole idea of the Two of Cups is two becoming one and the harmony shared so; Humans + Aliens working together as one!

Thumbnail 1:
Naked woman displaying both human and alien traits, this one is a little more surreal, a human and alien face flank her legs, and floating on either side of her head would be two cups representing either race.

Thumbnail 2:
Warrior(I like my warriors) A mix of human and alien, standing proudly, wearing armor and using weaponry both alien and human, sort of a peace enforcer or something.

Thumbnail 3:
Specimen in a lab, human and alien technology surrounds him, he lies naked to display the complete harmony between human and alien traits.

Thumbnail 4:
A human and alien stand together after an engagement, proud of their joint achievement.

Thumbnail 5:
I like this one the best I think, much like Thumb 4, but the human is giving a congratulatory shoulder slap to his alien counterpart, i feel like this one relays a comradeship that helps push the meanings behind the card.

[Nike]

good idea to solve this card, instinct! I like 1, 4, and 5 best of the thumbnails, I think they might transfer the idea better than 2 and 3.

Irrlaeufer - good thumbs! I agree with mimer, last one would work best for the three of swords!

I'm in a bit of a hurry now, so I'll post mine in the evening

[Irrlaeufer]

howdy, thanks all. What I don't like about the 5th image is the posture of the guy in the front row, looks somewhat lame. Maybe I should replace him by the front guy from pic 1 or pic 4.

instinct:

For the five of swords I agree the second one will probably work best when it comes to composition.
But I want to give some critique because it's lame if we all just agree: I think the idea you had in the frist image is cool, too. I've read the card's description on biddy tarot and in my book it would make more sense to have a kneeling or crouching character for this card and a perspective that is more downward. I really like your idea with the 5 swords pointing to his/her neck. Why not use real swords? The sword could protrude (not sure if this is the right word, I had to look it up) into the field of view and the swordsmen themselves would not have to be depicted on the card.

For the two of cups I dig the first three concepts you made up. The card is descriped as the "minor lovers card" so I'd go for love instead of comradeship. I also like the idea of combining features of two races in one character, a child or somekind of frankenstein cyborg or whatsoever.

[Nike]

two of my ideas for the world:

the world is about: fulfillment, accomplishment, spiritual enlightment, wholeness, completion, androgynous...

well, idea 1: andorgynous character in buddha pose on turtle shaped space station (yeah, I know, it doesn't look like one yet) (mayan cosmology: world on turtle floating in water); 8 shaped basilisk (shall be formed by stars/galaxy)
edges will be covered by symbols for the 4 elements/suits.

idea 2: pose similar to 1, but instead of androgynous creature male and female character (mirrored) , world between both; no turtle, but other symbols are covered as in 1.

more is in progress, but I wanted to show you these 2 versions already... I was working on stuff with more dynamic poses, but none of them was working so well as the buddha pose for that card... will keep on trying out stuff though and show you more later

[instinct]

Thanks all, I'll work on some larger, revised, polished thumbnails over the next few days.

I think the Buddha pose was a good choice Nike, I'm enjoying it. Of these two I like the aesthetics of the mirrored Buddha a lot more. Since tarots can be reversed, it leaves an excellent opportunity to model the mirrored Buddha after the reversed connotations of your tarot!

[Nike]

thanks, instinct! incorporating the reversed meaning in the mirrored one is an interesting idea... will have to think about something different to have the male/female yin/yang apect covered then... will see how I'll solve that

[mimer]

ok, first idea on 4 of cups. unawareness, introspective,disengaged from the world selfabsorbtion.

naked beautiful woman, surrounded by drink glasses hoovering on small discs, holding one, reaching for and dipping her fingers in another. smoke billowing from the glasses, glasses obscuring parts of her body. blank look on her face, or closed eyes perhaps?

pondering putting spying shapes of people in the background, making her seem unawares that she is beeing watched.

[instinct]

Nice start Mimer, very interesting concept. One suggestion I have is to maybe move the middle cup to the background, it'd allow us to see more of her design as well as, if its drawn smaller, give the image more depth. Looking good though!

I spent some time noodling out a cleaner thumb of the 5oS, a step in the right direction?

[Irrlaeufer]

Nike: I like the mirrored one better. Represents the concept pretty good and I think incorporating the world into one character is not an easy task. But I'd enlage the globe a little more and maybe put it in the center of the card.

Mimer: Maybe it would help if you portrait the scene from the view point of a spectator. In case she is sitting at the bar from a position a little above her, someone looking down at her while she is getting slatty.

Instinct: The way you painted the ground in the first thumbnail made the image look less flat and the dark shadow, i.e. the little hill in the forground added a cemeterey atmosphere. I think that worked well with the concept.

[Nike]

3 ideas for the five of cups... sorry, very messy;

card is about: loss, lost chances (future that could have been), ignoring the good (char ignores the filled cups in the background and is griefing over the empty ones in the forground), sadness;

chose a mayan god for the character (still not sure if I'll go for chaac, the rain god, or Kukulkan (the feathered serpent, creator); will be alienized a bit more and wear some high tec armor and stuff probably;

sketches are very rough still, am playing with the bad foreground/good background that is being ignored; next step for me: cup designs; design of character (shape, details, armor/skin/...)

--> color studies for environments

[mimer]

second idea for four of cups, probably going for a sense of motion, with two images superimposed on eachother rather than a fourarmed creature. man sitting down in meditative position, eyes unfocused, drinking, puring one glass out on the floor, raising one and reaching for one on the floor. Very rough, just trying to get a handle on the visual idea.

two of pentacles forthcoming