Searching for people willing to help with creating subtitles for Massive Black videos

[Tonic]

After discussing about this matter there, I thought I'd ask there.

The thing is we (people whose English isn't a first language, have hearing problems and volunteers who agreed to help) are searching for anybody who could help with subtitles project. Qitsune in first topic suggested to divide workload between volunteers. Obviously, the more volunteers would help, more text dialogues would be written - and perhaps we could synchronise them with video. If you think you can help or know anyone who could, jump into link I've posted at beginning! As so far, Qitsune, Brashen and Studio Colrouphobia have agreed to help, making this project really doable.

Basically, people who can sit, watch videos and write dialogues or take notes, are the most wanted. People who could help with checking and cleaning text, synchronising with video (like me) etc. would be a really big help.

[alesoun]

Okay; if this goes ahead, I'll volunteer to do text. I'm a terrible typist, but if I take my time my spelling and punctuation are okay for a Brit.....

[Slash]

I could go through a video or two and give them norwegian subtitles if thats of any interest.

[Noa K]

well, sign me up! i can do subtitles in english and hebrew (if spoken language english)

edit: forgot to add, i could probably do the subtitles-video sync. depends on the scheduals you'll need to hand it in...

[Mebiusu]

I would be honored to help. I can do subtitles in German and English. I can also help with text to video sync.

[Jazz]

I'll happily help with proofreading (in English), if anyone needs it for the subtitles! I'm very good at it, and can make suggestions whenever they're needed!

[alesoun]

If I bribe a friend with a portrait, we might get a Danish translation. She does that kinda thing for a living. Maybe I can twist her arm a little; she likes art.....

[Sorknes]

I can do the same as Slash, do Norwegian.

Note, that if we're doing Norwegian, that means that Swedes and Danes will understand it as well, as long as we don't use any very particular Norwegian slang, in case there's none from those countries doing it.

I guess people from Iceland would have no trouble reading it either, as well as Greenland and The Orkn Isles

[Brashen]

Looking good Tonic, hopefully well see this underway.

[Tonic]

That's true, I'm really glad to see your replies. I've made notes about who and what, my thoughts and few things. I will write them tomorrow evening and send PMs to you with specific questions, so I could see more clearly what's going and will happen I would love to see any suggestions how to organise the whole project, as I'm not really experienced with this kind stuff.

[Sorknes]

I have no idea what kind of software to use though... I could ask my cousin if he knows if there's any kinds of freeware or something he knows about out there... as he's a professional subtitler.. or whatever you call it.

[Tonic]

Sorknes, for pure text dialogues, you would need only plain text editor, such as Notepad, Wordpad and have it and movie player opened at the same time. But if you want to create synchronised subtitles, then you would have two options: create pure text dialogues, then add time stamps (things that tell movie player when it have to show text and how long) with subtitle editor (there are quite of them, and with freeware license) or let someone else synchronising job.

[Sorknes]

I'm lazy, I would prefer a program that could be done kind of "realtime" getting the texts in there when they're supposed to be there, but I can do timestamps if needed, hehe.

Everything to get these things out to a bigger audience

[Tonic]

I'm lazy, I would prefer a program that could be done kind of "realtime" getting the texts in there when they're supposed to be there, but I can do timestamps if needed, hehe.

I understand. In that case, a Subtitle Workshop 4 might suit you - I've checked it quickly and it seems to have all you need - freeware license, video preview and looks that interface is nice - you have various buttons, especially those for adding time stamps (start and end dialogue times). In one minute I knew how to add subtitles I will check it more tomorrow or later and write a small mini-tutorial, so anyone could get used to program swiftly. A small preview how it looks:




Author's homepage download page: http://www.urusoft.net/downloads.php?lang=1

Mirror: http://tonic-art.com/others/subtitle...shop4beta4.zip

[spaztastic]

I did something similar, where I captioned for deaf people while listening to them talk on the phone at full speed, so if any one needs my help I would be more than willing
I need something to help me get back into better typing habits anyhoo.

[VulgarDragon]

Glad to hear that this will be done.

[Slash]

We should keep each other in the loop sork, so we don't double our efforts. Also we could proofread each other.

[Crane]

This is a very good idea, I got markos dvd a while back, and it woulda been perfect if it had had subs, being half deaf i fear i missed a few things i think that future dvds and downloads should have subs for those that need them.

good job guys.

Why can't i type g.n.o.m.o.n workshop in?

[madster]

I just have a question...

There are periodic discussions on the boards, and across the Internet in general, regarding "giving your work away for free."
These usually involve our artistic efforts, but any project that requires concentrated effort and time should equally apply...

So please, enlighten me, and may other CA members ~

Why is is considered being "used," or "taken advantage of" when you put efforts into volunteering to make banners, or logos, or other works for free, when the recipient is going to be making a profit from your works,

But it is NOT the same thing here at CA, watching and writing sub-titles for videos that are to be sold worldwide for a profit, because????

I mean, it would be the type of effort that should at the very least warrant a free copy of the video you're captioning, if not a free video of your choice, since a download would not cost MB much of anything, considering the enlarged marketplace such captioning should generate, nae?

This just seems so confusing to have "Don't do work for free!" shouted from the mountaintops, only to then have one of the industry's largest collectives then use its members to "volunteer" to "help out," so that more profit can be made from the sale of videos captioned for free....


~M

[Sorknes]

Because the sale of those demos keeps this site free. I can donate, I can buy their educational demos or I can help them out for free subtitling said demos. Or I can not give a damn and this site ends up becoming pay to use.

That's why I can do this for free.

And everything I learnt through this site was thaught me for free as well.

[madster]

There are and always will be those willing to donate their time and efforts.
That is not the issue.

The issue is one of 'Do as I say, not as I do.'
It seems at the very least, somewhat duplicitous to tell people (repeatedly over the years) that doing work for free so others can profit is Baaaad.

Now, because of WHO is asking, it is supposedly "Okay!"

If this argument holds true for CA, then WHY is it wrong for anyone else to make such requests for free LABOR?
The justification about supporting the site with your monies or your time is a very true one, but since there is no form of renumeration (I sincerely doubt that your efforts will even be immortalized on the videos as a "thank you," your efforts merely become "part of the site." Just like a free banner, or logo, or poster, etc. become part of some other Business site, used to help them generate monies.

Would this "volunteerism" be any different if you were asked to draw or paint "just one panel" of an animation for some site that taught you everything you know?

The internal motivation of the volunteer is almost moot, because it is exactly that motivation that is potentially being "exploited," regardless the willingness to be exploited...

Just because you're a "willing victim," doesn't negate the fact that you are being a victim...

~M

[Sorknes]

I can donate instead for them to later get a professional subtitler... but I think this is better. It's not a matter of willing victim here. It's a matter of doing something else than giving away real money. I give them my time instead.

Like I do when volunteering for organizations of various kinds as well, giving them my time and work instead of donating. There's a difference between a employer and something/someone you would donate to. This fall into the latter category.

[Noa K]

to madster:

this is the way i see it:
CA is contributing alot to it's users. nobody here have to critique you, nobody here have to arrange workshops or contests for you, and nobody have to even allow the space on which you post your works for all to see. but they do, and they do it from their own pocket without any actuall profit. CA could easilly start selling advertisment banners spaces or require membership fee, but they don't.
now, i personally don't have the money to donate money or purchasing the downloads, but i do want to give something back to one of the rarest communities i've encountered on the net. so i don't even care if i get to choose which of the downloads will i be translating, as it would probably teach me something one way or another.

when voluteering to do something for free, you should concider what you gain from it, even if it's just you feeling good knowing you helped someone out. if that doesn't work for you, then don't volunteer, but saying CA or MB is exploiting it's members is pretty far-fetched.

[Brashen]

Madster subjective reasoning has never been a good basis for arguments. I don't see how your post contributes anything meaningful. People choose to do something or not. Some or most will be under pressure to follow others. But that's something else entirely. If you read the OPs post before posting you would have realized that this is meant to help people whom have a disability of some kind. This has got nothing to do with CA but people helping other people out.

Your post reminds me of the American media....you like to blow shit out of proportion. Nowhere did any official from CA ask that this be done.

[Slash]

Madster, the way i understand it the subtitle files will be separate files that you load into your video playback software, and downloadable for free, so noone is making money off of it. And still, even if it was included with the videos and thus sold for profit, the money goes back to supporting the community. I don't think MB is making any money off of the downloads.

Would this "volunteerism" be any different if you were asked to draw or paint "just one panel" of an animation for some site that taught you everything you know?

If the work would help support the site and keep it free, then what is the problem with doing that? CA is non-profit after all..

All in all, this is a user initiative, to help other users. Why do you need to make it sound like people participating are gullible and being suckered into free LABOR?

[madster]

And that is VERY kind, generous, and supportive of ALL of you.

That does NOT change the question.
Your willingness to donate your time and effort is NOT in question, here.

The question remains, WHY is is considered "Bad" to do work for free in this Industry, but because the request is made HERE, it is "Okay."

Those of you jumping in to defend YOUR donation of your time and effort are actually helping my argument, in that you are showing quite clearly how people can and are manipulated to donate their time and effort by playing on affection and community spirit.

Your justifications why are NOT in question. There is NO argument of just how valuable, inspirational, and educational, ConceptArt.Org is.

The argument here (and I am merely asking for clarification) is a "You shouldn't EVER do this, but since its us asking, you might want to, anyway" argument that just seems more than a bit duplicitous.

Just as young artists are encouraged to "donate" and "volunteer" their efforts to "HELP" another business, so are the members here being asked to "donate" and "volunteer" their efforts to "help" Massive Black and CA.

Do not forget for one moment that MB IS a business. The purpose of a business is to make a profit.
The .ORG does NOT mean CA is non-profit. It can turn a profit any time it so chooses.
Operating expenses are tax-deductable. That includes the cost of captioning product...

There is NOTHING wrong with helping out. But, CA should not preach one tenet, only to look the other way when it is convenient for CA...

Consistency is as desirable in business dealings as it is in artistic compositions...

~M

[Slash]

There's a fundamental difference between approaching a company to enhance their products for free, and the company asking the fans to do this. I've worked for free on projects i believe in. But i would never work for free for a client.

[Sorknes]

Uhm... the question does not still remain. We just told you there's a difference between someone wanting you to work for free and working pro bono.

That I would deny doing anything for somebody that wants me to draw but run away from paying for it has nothing to do with the fact that I make posters for free for a non profit youth club.

[madster]

All in all, this is a user initiative, to help other users. Why do you need to make it sound like people participating are gullible and being suckered into free LABOR?

User initiatives promoted within the forums means that there IS approval by TPTB, tacit or otherwise. Please do not assume that this "call" for volunteers is totally member driven...

Second, I do not personally give a rat's ass whether or not you are suckered into "free" work. My own opinion is that better you do it for free than I have to pay you. Free is GOOD.

My question is one of duplicity.
Just because Davi, or Jason, or Arshes, or Elwell, or any other "CA Offical" hasn't said "Yeah! Great idea!" doesn't mean any more than they are letting the members decide on their own to be "allegedly" exploited.

So if the lemmings WANT to jump off the cliff, that makes it okay to point them in the direction? That seems to be the arguments posted here to defend this...

Still doesn't quite align with the "do no work for free to profit another" mantra that is sung with such commitment...

~M

[Sorknes]

This is silly. I'm going to draw.