9-11 Explosives evidence?

[Jason Ross]

I think this is Danish...not sure. A group of scientist publish an article about evidence of explosives in the WTC dust.

[Costau D]

One thing I want to know is when they find evidence, such as the beams having vertical cuts from what looks like the stuff they use for demolition, or even the thermite in the beginning of this video. They say they find samples of this, but when do they find it? Don't they get demolition crews to actually clear away what was left of the towers, so there would actually be evidence of this stuff but not necessarily because it was the cause of the collapse?

What if all this evidence, for alternative reasons for the collapse, was actually just there because of demolition crews cleaning the site up?

Edit:: I haven't watched the entire thing yet as I wrote this so I'm not sure if they cover my questions already. But, it looks like they might.

[ruzkard]

I remember seeing a video about a year or two ago that speculated the use of explosives in the towers in order to make them collapse. Part of that video can be seen in the clip you posted, at the very end. It showed a close up of one of the buildings as it fell but what was strange about it is that there were separate plumes of smoke shooting out to the side several floors below the ones collapsing. This suggests the possibility of explosives going off in order to cause the building to fall. there is also the fact that commercial planes use a kerosene based fuel that does not burn anywhere near hot enough to weaken th steel frame of a building.

[Portus]

Maybe a third party aided the terrorists without them knowing in order to amplify the attack plus the mysterious Pentagon attack...

[Blahm]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Scient..._WTC_0404.html
Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubble
Stephen C. Webster
Published: Saturday April 4, 2009


A team of scientists claim to have unearthed startling data from dust and debris gathered in the days and weeks after the World Trade Center towers collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001.

In a study published by the Open Chemical Physics Journal -- a peer-reviewed, scientific publication -- Steven E. Jones and Niels Harrit level a stark allegation: that within the dust and rubble of the World Trade Center towers lays evidence of "a highly engineered explosive," contrary to all federal studies of the collapses.

"We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center," reads the paper's abstract. "One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC)."

The study, however, shows that the dust was collected from four different sites, three of which were not in the immediate area surrounding the fallen towers. Most of the samples are collections of dust taken from blocks away.

They claim their analysis has uncovered "active thermitic material": a combination of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in a form of thermite known as "nanostructured super-thermite."

Thermite, used in steel welding, fireworks shows, hand grenades and demolition, can produce a chemical reaction known for extremely high temperatures focused in a very small area for a short period of time.

According to the Navy's Small Business Innovation Research, super-thermite "is restricted under the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR), which controls the export and import of defense-related material and services."

"This finding really goes beyond anything that has previously been shown," said Jones in a media advisory. "We had to use sophisticated tools to analyze the dust because this isn't just a typical explosive, RDX or CD4 or something -- this is a highly engineered material not readily available to just anyone."

"The cost and production rate of super-thermite composites has limited the use of these materials in DoD applications," claims the Navy's SBIR.

Dr. Steven E. Jones, a former physicist at Brigham Young University and a founding member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice, presented a paper in 2005 discussing alternatives to the government's theory that massive structural damage combined with burning jet fuel to weaken the towers' support infrastructure, causing a rapid "pancake" collapse.

In September 2006, under heavy criticism in the media and by several colleagues, the university placed Jones on paid administrative leave and his paper was removed from the BYU database.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology, which investigated the WTC tower collapses, maintains there was no recovered evidence of explosive materials. An electronic FAQ to the government's theory is available online.

"We get a lot of calls from people who have heard these theories," NIST spokesman Michael Newman told Newsday. "But we conducted what was probably the most complex investigation of a building collapse in history."

"We based our conclusion on the talents of the world's best engineers and scientists, state of the art computer models and 236 pieces of steel recovered from the site," reads the NIST FAQ.

"The collapse of the WTC towers was not caused either by a conventional building fire or even solely by the concurrent multi-floor fires that day," NIST says. "Instead, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel."

"No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent multi-floor fires that the towers experienced on Sept. 11, 2001," the agency claims.

This latest report, Jones told Visibility 9/11, "explodes the official story that 'no evidence' exists for explosive/pyrotechnic materials in the WTC buildings. The red/gray chips are the 'loaded gun' of 9-11."

Joe Byrne contributed to this report.

Editor's note: This story has been updated and rewritten for balance and clarity.

[Not Pink]

finding thermite is evidence?

they as smart-explosive-scientist-type-people (sarcasm) should at least know how easy it is to have found rust and aluminum dust mixed with each other when the explosion of a building happens...

The Titanic was torpedoed! Chicago was set aflame on purpose!

gimme a break.

[CCorsair]

this Video is good on what could of happen but we will never really know fore sure. Still's of the two plans show they do not look like airline planes and they we have building 7 .. one fire on teh 4th floor . the floor that house the Emergency Service for NY this was newly reinforced floor it was suppose to be fire proof and all but later teh whole building drops like it was cut down like some took it down.

I lost some friend in the towers they were part of the tech that work on all the main computers that run the towers and kept other online.
During the rebuilding of the underground parking area after the one group blew up a bomb there My friend we part of the re-building of the lines that were damaged and my friend commented that the company that came in was a Demolition team from the same people that take down buildings and said they were there to inspected the buildings. He tried to get in on that but was told he was not need but he was the one in charge of the area they need to go so who gave them clearance(at the time the building did belong to the the US Government it was sold just few days before 9/11.

could have some group got into the key are to plant explosives? We will never know.
I live in Sacramento and at cal-Expo they have one of the Beams it big and steel and it looks like some one sand blasted it and I can see if a plan slammed in to the building would knock some of that protective covering but on all the beams? and what about the water tanks? on the roof of the building my friend told me that they was 3 8000 gal tanks of water what didn't that dump down on the fires? ya it would spread the fuel but then the fuel would not burn as hot. IF you have work in metal for doing casting you know how hot thing need to get to melt and Steel is higher then the metal of the plan but here is an idea what if due to being close to to the sea water there was rust on the joints in the structure and that the aluminum of the plane and other sources added to what could have formed Thermite? I do have friend in the FBI that still said in the first weeks they found some dust with Sin-tex the new version of C4 but there was small Federal group that did have weapons locker in one of the buildings and that could be one place that dust came from.

there is lot of questions we will never know the truth of . some still feel that Bush stage it all to keep in office as he know he would never be re-elected after getting on some Technical flaw of how the US get it votes counted.

but would some be that cold to hold power over all of us that long? IS bush that smart? we will never know the truth ..for now maybe ..

We are all effected by this some more way than other.. I can't go near that big steel Beam at cal-Expo i start to get close and i feel ill and my head hurts just seeing and knowing where it is from and what hapeen as i watched my TV that day .

it sadder that those rebuilding the tower(s) say its going to 35 years from now before they get anythig done now..

Good video but still it bring more questions..no answer .

CC

[chriskot]

finding thermite is evidence?

they as smart-explosive-scientist-type-people (sarcasm) should at least know how easy it is to have found rust and aluminum dust mixed with each other when the explosion of a building happens...

That was my first thought too, but I looked up this 'Super-Thermite' just to be sure. Strictly speaking, it's not really an explosive so much as a regular thermite that burns really fast. The only difference is that at least one of the two reactants is ground into very, very fine particles, causing it to react faster than regular thermite dust. The scale is on the order of a few hundred nanometers, apparently. While that does seem slightly suspicious, it doesn't seem impossible for trace amounts of it to somehow form in all of the chaos of a collapsing skyscraper. What I don't get is how they determined that it was super-thermite instead of the regular stuff. If it was in the form of a bomb, it should have all been close enough together to react quite easily, and if it had already reacted, then it would just be a blob of melted and rehardened metal, which should be indistinguishable from regular thermite.

Also, (and maybe this sounds stupid) but I always wonder why people assume that substances like this were originally in the buildings, without even considering that they could have been on the planes. I wouldn't call myself more informed than usual on the subject, so if someone can give me a reason that this is always being ruled out, I'd love to hear it.

[Elam]

Whenever I hear a Dutch person speaking, I only hear the Swedish Chef from the Muppets.

[Elam]

And at the risk of feeding the retards,

You got to have a lot of respect for the US government. I mean, they managed to sneak 100's of tons of thermite into the WTC, one of the most recognizable and public landmarks in the United States, past all the thousands of people who work there and maintain the place.

And on top of that, they managed to hijack three jet planes and crash them into these buildings and then set off those thermite charges. And the greatest coup is that no one snitched.

Wow. It's almost unbelievable.

Also, (and maybe this sounds stupid)

Yes, it does.

[MrSmith]

i've watched a lot of these (they never seem to go away) and still i dont see any real evidence. but that doesnt mean the government didnt exploit the hell out of the situation. maybe one day you could convince me that they allowed something to happen, but planting bombs and planning the thing is %100 pure fiction.

[Straight Edge Ryan]

What kills me are the people who find "evidence" of a conspiracy, like that whole thing where you can fold a $20 bill a certain way and it looks like the twin towers on fire. What? Does our evil mastermind government have a sick sense of humor? Were they all just sitting around the conspiracy table one day when someone walks up and goes "Derek! Hey dude you remember how we hijacked those 2 planes, flew them into the world trade center, killed thousands, and made everyone think it was those middle eastern guys?" "haha! oh yeah that was hilarious" "well check this out: a new 20 dollar bill. BUT if I fold it *here* and then again *here*, then fold it in half *here* it looks like the world trade center! isn't that hilarious!? Those dumbasses are carrying evidence of our conspiracy and they don't even know it!"

[DeadlyFreeze]

Simpsons did it..

[LORD M]

i've watched a lot of these (they never seem to go away) and still i dont see any real evidence. but that doesnt mean the government didnt exploit the hell out of the situation. maybe one day you could convince me that they allowed something to happen, but planting bombs and planning the thing is %100 pure fiction.

Well, FBI actually recieved a threat from Usama bin Laden and Al-Quaida months prior to the WTC-incident, and they did nothing.

And I believe one who isn't a scientist or demolishion-expert shouldn't raise their own opinion above the facts presented by the scientists and demolishion-experts. Face it, they KNOW what they're talking about. They have studied and worked with these kind of things for years.

[Rist]

finding thermite is evidence?

they as smart-explosive-scientist-type-people (sarcasm) should at least know how easy it is to have found rust and aluminum dust mixed with each other when the explosion of a building happens...

The Titanic was torpedoed! Chicago was set aflame on purpose!

gimme a break.

you be gullible indeed. Nations live off lies, not every disaster has to be one, but the towers certainly was. Just that people are too afraid to speak up.

[chriskot]

Well, FBI actually recieved a threat from Usama bin Laden and Al-Quaida months prior to the WTC-incident, and they did nothing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the FBI receives several terrorist threats every day. They know that they can't act on all of them.

I still think all of these conspiracy theories surrounding the collapse are ridiculous. Why does everyone think that it's always the government? It's just paranoid. The WTC wasn't some secret military installation, it was a big complex that John Q. Public walked in and out of every day. Fine, let's assume for a minute that there was thermite involved. Why does this automatically have to be the government's doing? Anyone could have put it there. Thermite is not some ridiculous hard-to-come-by substance. It's ordinary powdered rust mixed with powdered aluminum. That's it. A 10-year-old could make some. I produced some for a chemistry project once. It doesn't require some fancy trigger mechanism. It just has to get really hot. They wouldn't even need a trigger. The plane crash probably would've done all of the work.

Occam's Razor. It's not a difficult principle. "The simplest possible solution is probably the correct one". When you consider all of the possiblities, "Some extremists hijacked a couple of planes and crashed them into the buildings, which then collapsed as intended" is definitely the simplest. "The government planted explosives and orchestrated the collapse in conjunction with a terrorist organization for their own nefarious purposes" doesn't even rank in the top 100. The theory is so full of holes I don't even know where to start. Plausibility-wise, it's closer to ranking alongside the plot of "The Da Vinci Code".

[Duq]

Whenever I hear a Dutch person speaking, I only hear the Swedish Chef from the Muppets.

Thats very nice, but why are you actually bringing that up? Noone talked Dutch?

[Arshes Nei]

you be gullible indeed. Nations live off lies, not every disaster has to be one, but the towers certainly was. Just that people are too afraid to speak up.

You seem to be on a roll about speaking up on behalf of our country. First the fact we are fearful (the Pittsburgh thread). Now the above.

Excuse me for this but:
Wow what bullshit.

Thanks, I thought talking on a forum no matter how crazy our ideas are is apparently FEAR (sarcasm). You know the fact we can talk conspiracy theory in the US is the whole reason we are *not* afraid.

Then there are some of us out there that think finding conspiracies in this is just crap. People however are entitled in the US to think and speak otherwise.

Shit you talk about being raped in my birth country you can expect an "honor" killing as in the female who was raped. No, see that's fear. I already am aware of countries that are really are driven by fear, that's why a large part of my family moved here to the US.

So please, dose of reality before throwing your suspicions upon the US.

[Aaron Death]

Agenda......

[Fuish]

Maybe EVERY major sky scraper is fitted with explosives... >_>

[WagenMan]

When I look at those videos, what really doesn't make sense to me is....

Just picture for a moment, those parts of the WTC closer to the bottom...they were designed to hold up all that weight. Not being an engineer, I just don't understand how the entire structure experiences total failure. Even if a few floors collapse, it wasn't built like dominoes. It was built like legos. Thousands of beams in square patterns.

HHHH
HHHH
HHHH
HHHH
HHHH
HHHH
HHHHHH
HHHHHH
HHHHHH
HHHHHH

Whatever the case, it was incredible. Kinda like when JFK was shot.

[Costau D]

JFK was never shot...

[CCorsair]

One Thermite does not go Boom! it just burns very very hot
Two. it would nothave take that much to weaken the who structure of the towers.
plus bring down the tower was not the object wasn't goal but to burn and damage them the falling down and all look more a bonus.
and again we have the fact that a crew that was inspecting the super structure after the parking lot bomb a few years earlier.
Plus any one could from cleaning crew to people doing service on the printer and copiers. something like this would take year to plan out and gee a repair crew going in and out of the building 24/7 would be one of the best ways.

the Thermite theory is just that a theory and for the truth we would need time machine to go back and find out what really happen.

Oh BTW I look up Screen Saver Kevin Rose how to destroy data and see what just 4 pounds of Thermite does to computer case and drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOhPw_9MfU
it does some hard damage to all. and that was 4 pounds of powder not cord that demo people use to take down buildings

CC

[Sphyzex_9]

Oh shut up with this already. 9/11 happened just how you saw it on TV. Why are peoeple so proud to be stupid?

[Carnifex]

countdown to thread lockdown...in...5..

[Brashen]

Man i love 9/11........what?

[Cam Sykes]

The sad thing is no matter how much evidence is presented, the majority will believe the fabricated initial news story. Because people don't want to believe that they could be so easily fooled.

[kev ferrara]

The sad thing is no matter how much evidence is presented, the majority will believe the fabricated initial news story. Because people don't want to believe that they could be so easily fooled.

The sad thing is people like you don't know the difference between evidence and speculation. And you don't want to know either. Because then, instead of being cool and special by virtue of scary secret knowledge, you're just a socially-inept paranoid clown with ego issues and too much time in his hands.

Here's a strong article from a few days ago by David Solway...

In Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841), Charles MacKay marvels that “whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object, and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one delusion, and run after it.” MacKay then estimates that during the “panic terror” of the First Crusade, “the weak, the credulous, and the guilty…formed more than nineteen twentieths of the population,” which would appear to be a staple calculus. “Men, it has been well said, think in herds,” but what is truly remarkable, he writes, is “that they go mad in herds.”

It is no different today. Conspiracy theorists, who are legion, fasten on what Damian Thompson in his new book of that title calls “Counterknowledge.” Thompson deplores the “huge surge in popularity of propositions that fail basic empirical tests.” People seem to be growing even more “dishonest or gullible,” he believes, as we gain through the Internet “almost unlimited access to false information” and the technical means to corroborate one another’s figments. I have frequently noticed how secondary tracts assume the prestige of primary documents as conspiracy theorists start referencing one another’s offerings in an endless loop of contaminated sources.

This form of moral and intellectual delinquency would explain the profusion of paranoid fantasies that have swamped the contemporary social and ideological milieu. For example, the horror of 9/11, we are told, was planned and executed by the Pentagon, the CIA, or even the Presidential Office, in cahoots with the Mossad. The fact that the nineteen Muslim hijackers are a matter of common knowledge and that Osama bin Laden, on innumerable videos aired by Al-Jazeera, has taken gloating credit for 9/11 is somehow shunted aside or expunged from memory. The fact that al-Qaeda’s deputy leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, accused Shia Iran and Hizbullah of spreading the rumour that the Mossad was behind the attack in order to depreciate Sunni valour merely glances off the impermeable surface of conspiracy-consciousness (BBC News, April 23, 2008).

The saner “truthers” among those who advocate the “controlled explosion” hypothesis rely on forensic evidence provided by metallurgy and architecture to interpret the rapid collapse of building #7—the only, as yet unexplained element in the disaster. But it is reasonable to assume that, given the enormous complexity of so destructive and unprecedented an event, a resolution of this last enigma may one day be found. Nor does the inference of a controlled explosion necessarily implicate the Bush administration, the CIA or the Mossad. Workers on a supplementary payroll may have primed the building for the anticipated strike. Both suppositions are unlikely but, with regard to the first, truthers rush in where skeptics fear to tread.

Meanwhile, books such as Thierry Meyssan’s 9/11: The Big Lie or Webster Tarpley’s 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA have become increasingly popular. William Blum in Rogue State and Killing Hope boxes his anti-American conspiratorial compass so obsessively that one must ultimately lose all sense of direction. As for Noam Chomsky and his countless tiresome screeds, let’s not go there—we may not return. Cyberspace, of course, is thronged with bloggers in the know. Indeed, we could say that the conspiracy theory has become the ideological real estate of the subprime mind—except there seems to be no looming crisis of confidence.

Rest of the article here: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...7-D18FDC0339A6

[Blahm]

The sad thing is people like you don't know the difference between evidence and speculation. And you don't want to know either. Because then, instead of being cool and special by virtue of scary secret knowledge, you're just a socially-inept paranoid clown with ego issues and too much time in his hands.

Here's a strong article from a few days ago by David Solway...



Rest of the article here: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...7-D18FDC0339A6

I dont really see what is so strong about this article. So the CIA asset goes on TV and takes the credit. This isnt proof of anything. I have yet to see 911 debunked by anything more than petty character attacks and broad generalizations about people that talk about it. The facts speak for themselves on this.

[AdventDawn]

its called common sense people! please...

1. an inside job would require too much resources, personnel, coordination between multiple government intelligence agencies and tangling through bureaucracies, bribes, coercion, international government coordination, etc etc for anyone not to notice or at the least raise an eyebrow or too. Oh and thats just setting things up, then we got the continued cover up and the entailing expenses still in play nearly a decade later. Does that mean Obama is in on this!?

2. Enron got put out of its misery by an attention-who*** ...ahem, sorry - whistle blower over at accounting, that means the people involved in 911 know how to keep a good secret and can live with 3000 dead and Bush getting reelected a second time on their conscience...besides, being on the front cover of time is so over rated.

3. Nothing has been gained by our government from 911. Afghanistan is a mess, Osama is still out there, our economy sucks, gas prices are a joke, Iraq tarnished the Republican party, and Bush and co are forever exiled to Crawford Ranch. Pure evil for evils sakes a faslehood, even the cruelest people act with some sort of incentive or quenching of thirst. Cheney did not concoct the idea to kill 3000 people for fun. Hell even Hitler had some messed up rational for the holocaust. He didn't plan it just because he was bored.

4. Postings from an internet forum with banners of George bush with a Hitler stash do not count as reliable sources.

5. The two reports involved with WaterGate are legends to this day and have inspired countless to follow in their footsteps and discover the next big coverup....yet the only people willing to give these 'scientist' some airtime is some Danish newsstation...hell we don't even know if it is Danish

5. How can the same people who herald Bush as the dumbest person ever to serve as president turn around and call him the mastermind who engineered the greatest global conspiracy and get away with it?

6. Bush < President Logan < Jack Bauer.