Protest Today in Washington

[Jasonwclark]

Anyone going to be in DC today?

If you're in the area, there's going to be a mass civil disobedience demonstration at the capital concerning climate change. Its supposed to be the largest to date on this issue.

If you can, show out and make some noise.




On a somewhat related note:

[Dave_]

Climate change by humans is so non-existent...

[Goog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRaeEIN5Sh8

[Not Pink]

I really need to see more evidence that humans are the main problem, granted, yeah, I believe humans are part of the problem, but not the main problem.

The earth has been constantly heating and cooling since it's inception, cold before the dinos, warm during the dinos, then it cooled for the ice age then it's been warming ever since, it's a natural cycle. from most research projects, scientists have been able to spot this on earth, and there's evidence that it's going on still today on other planets... you know... ones without humans? yeah it's happening there.

humans are playing a part but what the hell is the government gonna do about it? all they could do is force more money down the throats of investors to get alternative fuel sources going, but that's just gonna slow down warming but what little percent that's caused by humans. If the government wanted to truly work this out, a necessary requirement for a bailout for the auto industries would be some type of deadline to get alternative fuel vehicles out on the street, and not fucking hybrids.*

that and people COME ON!!! the new president everyone fawned over to get into the white house because he said he had plans for global warming and ways to slow it down, has only been in there for what... less than a month?
give the dude some time to get everything situated. we're 3 months away from a stock market crash and everything going bat-shit insane, and a large group is gonna go protest that he's working on that instead of one of earth's natural cycles that won't really do anything for another couple of hundred years?? what. the. fuck. get your priorities straight.

we just need to get over the fact that humans will not be around forever, I had a science teacher that has a bet going on with another science teacher on how long humans will last, one says 150 years, the other says 75. I honestly doubt humans would live past 150 years from now (all conspiracy theories aside, Mr. 2012).

*the nickel and lithium ion batteries in there actually contribute more to environmental dangers than a gas car would in 3 life times. think about it, you have to mine the nickel or lithium, transport it from there to a smelting facility, then take it to a factory that turns them into batteries, then another place to put them in the car. usually this process includes shipping back in forth between plants in Japan and in America, a couple of flights uses alot more gas than the prius will...

[Not Pink]

after posting, I went ahead and watched Moog's link...

all I could do was chuckle at Gore hahahaha.

[Rist]

Just scientists trying to piss the highest.

[squidmonk3j]

soon they'll be telling us that secondary smoking is bad for you.

[spaztastic]

Squid no. soon they'll be telling us that sex is bad for us. chocolate, coffee, wine, vegetables, protein, air. in all honesty what haven't they said is bad for us. all things in moderation.

[Blackhawk]

Make sure you guys protest and push for carbon credit taxes against volcanoes too, they are historically the biggest contributors to global climate change and NEED TO BE STOPPED!!

[romance]

Thanks Jason.

Here's something that might worth watching for those of you who aren't near-sighted and have an interest or concern over the state of our planet.

Global Dimming

[Rist]

I'll be dead when the planet explodes, so please don't tax me while I live.

[Zaknafain]

When I look at the people who replied to this thread, I'm seriously having a hard time telling cynics from idiots....
Thanks for starting this thread btw...

[squidmonk3j]

somebody should look into the correlation between those who maintain that Intelligent Design is a valid science and those who believe humanity isn't affecting the climate.

i predict interesting data.

[Black Spot]

I’m slightly pissed off that the EU are forcing us to swap tungsten bulbs to ones that contain mercury. Two of these ‘energy efficient’ bulbs have exploded in my kids’ bedroom. If they die of mercury poisoning, I’ll sue their pants off.

BTW the planet was at least 5C hotter than today, so no Godzillas roaming about for a while yet.

[DeeLock]

I think that it's great that there's going to be a protest. There needs to be more emphasis placed on this issue.

People are too dismissive and willing to say that "i won't be around when it becomes a "major" issue." I think that's so irresponsible.

That's like saying that your house is on a cliff over the ocean that is slowly eroding but you refuse to move because you don't want to deal with it.

Wish i could be in DC...

[ws.iono]

Some potential resources, for those that might be interested :

Science Daily : Nature News
Environmental News Network
Nature News
One Planet, One Life & The Sixth Mass Extinction - "Current Earth Stats"
Altered Oceans

...

[Ilaekae]

"When I look at the people who replied to this thread, I'm seriously having a hard time telling cynics from idiots...."

Actually, threads like this make it really easy for me to separate people with IQs above single digits who actually have enough education and brain cell growth to form coherent thought patterns, and complete fucking morons. It's a piece of cake once you get the hang of it...

[Jason Rainville]

EDIT: crap I linked a different vid, can't find the one I was looking for. Oh well it's still decent.

[NoSeRider]

I don't think you can really control global warming until you control overpopulation. So, get your tubes tied.

I believe in the principles of Idiocracy as well.

[Rist]

Just joking in my earlier posts. Still on the fence with what to believe. I am not qualified enough to judge. Is anyone...

Some of the effects in the weather these past few decades have had me thinking though...

Just pisses me off when I hear my Government giving me a 'Green' tax on food and vegetables because they came from another country on a plane. WTF?

[Blackhawk]

When I look at the people who replied to this thread, I'm seriously having a hard time telling cynics from idiots....
Thanks for starting this thread btw...

I'm both a cynic and an idiot.

[erinel]

I can't believe people don't believe this is happening. Gore even addresses the whole "the earth goes through phases" thing, and clearly shows that this is way more intense than that. He probably explains everything else too but I dont remember that

[Man Made God]

I can't believe people don't believe this is happening. Gore even addresses the whole "the earth goes through phases" thing, and clearly shows that this is way more intense than that. He probably explains everything else too but I dont remember that

If you've only looked at one side of the argument, how do you expect to understand the skepticism? The videos that Jason Rainville linked are much more objective and scientifically valid than "An Inconvenient Truth" imo.

[Goog]

somebody should look into the correlation between those who maintain that Intelligent Design is a valid science and those who believe humanity isn't affecting the climate.

i predict interesting data.

I'll help you out here.

More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition circulated by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying, in part, “there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” (Go to www.oism.org for the complete petition and names of signers.) Surveys of climatologists show similar skepticism.

Look, many of us who see problems with the "man's effect on global warming" argument aren't naive children who don't give a damn what happens on the earth because we only live roughly 80 years. This is why the majority of the scientists above have adopted the "no regrets" policy. Even the big bad Bush administration took this approach, and the U.S. now spends more on global warming research each year than the entire rest of the world combined. However, those who say man is solely responsible for it have skipped several steps of the scientific process. We, at this point and time, simply don't have all of the accurate information needed to make a diagnosis, that is all that we are claiming...

On a side note, I am baffled with the intolerance of opinion often shown here. Normally I would assume that we artists are champions of freedom of thought and expression.

On a side-side note, I agree with much of that Horizon documentary (I remember seeing it several years ago) Romance, however, the impact of global dimming is still debated. That is not to say we shouldn't do anything about it though.

[erinel]

When you listen to how well thought out and hey, logical it is, I can believe it.
Gore I mean

[Man Made God]

When you listen to how well thought out and hey, logical it is, I can believe it.
Gore I mean

I could say the same thing for Michael Crichton. But that's not good enough.

[Oden]

If you've only looked at one side of the argument, how do you expect to understand the skepticism? The videos that Jason Rainville linked are much more objective and scientifically valid than "An Inconvenient Truth" imo.

I've never seen an Inconvenient truth, so I can't compare. I definitely appreciate Jason's video though (both parts)

Especially that part at the beginning, where he says it is a) not about politics c) not a matter of "belief" or "denial" (science doesn't deal in faith or absolute truth, only probabilities) and c) it doesn't have anything to do with Al Gore.

I think it's probably a good thing that Al Gore spread the word to people who hadn't really considered the issue before, but sometimes I kind of resent the fact that he has made it possible for skeptics to attack him, and not the actual scientific research that is being done--the majority of which supports anthropogenic factors in climate change.

[Ilaekae]

"More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition circulated by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying, in part, “there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” (Go to www.oism.org for the complete petition and names of signers.) Surveys of climatologists show similar skepticism."

Anyone here with more time than I have wish to explain what the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine is to everyone, and possibly post a few examples of the people involved in the organization so that we can all get a good feeling for how unbiased and professional it is?

If not, I'll do it when I have time, but if you're holding this particular institution and its followers up as counter examples of just how stupid and biased those who seriously support the theories of climatic change and the effects of man's involvement in it are, you're pissing off a high cliff.

GOOG: Would you clarify for me please whether you support the beliefs and findings of the OISM or not. I want to be sure I'm understanding everybody here who is fighting for unbiased commentary...

[ceberae]

A SourceWatch article regarding the above mentioned petition.

A quote:

"When questioned in 1998, OISM's Arthur Robinson admitted that only 2,100 signers of the Oregon Petition had identified themselves as physicists, geophysicists, climatologists, or meteorologists, "and of those the greatest number are physicists." This grouping of fields concealed the fact that only a few dozen, at most, of the signatories were drawn from the core disciplines of climate science - such as meteorology, oceanography, and glaciology - and almost none were climate specialists. The names of the signers are available on the OISM's website, but without listing any institutional affiliations or even city of residence, making it very difficult to determine their credentials or even whether they exist at all."

[Goog]

GOOG: Would you clarify for me please whether you support the beliefs and findings of the OISM or not. I want to be sure I'm understanding everybody here who is fighting for unbiased commentary...

Thanks for the gut check, upon further review I found several dissenting arguments to the study (obviously). Most notably, I found this piece from the Scientific American :

Scientific American took a random sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community.

However, the legitimacy of the Oregon petition (you're right, I shouldn't have mentioned it, t'was was a crime of passion) doesn't take away from the fact that there are several respectable climatologists who disagree with "man's involvement" theory, such as MIT professor Richard Lindzen, or Dr. Bob Carter, who is a Research Professor at James Cook University and paleoclimate analyst with more than 30 years' experience, including 95 research papers. While I know at the same time there are equally qualified people in staunch support for the theory, there just isn't enough empirical evidence to warrant a protest on Washington, (especially when America has dedicated more money than anyone else in the world to resolve the issue). There also isn't enough empirical evidence to justify the insults directed towards those who don't agree.

Remember, I do want my money spent on the solving of this problem, no matter what the cause may be. I consider the survival of the human race is a preferable notion.