Ringling Vs. SCAD-- is the cost worth it? (Applies to any 2 schools really)

**drd** · September 29th, 2009, 09:30 PM

Alright; Ringling is going to cost me at the very least $100,000 by the time I leave, if I apply and enter. SCAD, probably more like $10-15,000, maybe less.

If anyone has personal stories of these kind of situations, please share.

I really want to go to Ringling, but it's just not looking feasible; I could go, but I'd be paying huge amounts. I know that I would probably get a better education at Ringling, and be surrounded constantly by hard-working, motivated individuals, unlike at SCAD where, because they do not require a portfolio, will have some really good students and a fair number of students that aren't as motivated.

One of the things I was looking forward to at Ringling was making connections and relations with all of the people who are going to come out of it, and I know many industry professionals came from Ringling, moreso than SCAD, at least.

My family will only be able to pay 10K a year for Ringling, I would have to pay the rest. I just don't know if the better environment (imo) of Ringling would be worth it. I know that the main factor is how you apply yourself; but if I went to Ringling, I know I would be forced to apply myself, because I have trouble applying myself on my own; stress moves me. It's how I get stuff done.

Does anyone know how rigorous SCAD is, especially in their illustration department? Obviously I want to work in a concept art related field after college (and maybe after a few CA.org sponsored events =] ), and I don't know if SCAD or Ringling would better help me with this goal, especially considering the connections I could make at Ringling and all of the companies that come recruiting each year.

General insight or advice? Has anyone ever had to make a decision like this, and what were the results? Do you regret going to a more expensive college? Do you feel it was worth it from what you got out of the school aside from your own hard work?

**NothingReallyExists** · September 29th, 2009, 10:51 PM

Theres a stickied thread in the schools forum that has most of the answers you seek. I've probably read it 6 times myself... its moderately inspiring.

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102315

**Ivory_Oasis** · September 30th, 2009, 01:12 AM

I dunno, 100k seems like a TON when it all comes down to skill aquired at the end (which is more about how much you apply yourself than who your teachers are).

Would rather spend the 10k on school and then 90k on a CRAZY studio with every material I would ever need (paintbrushes, oils, a few computers, a cintiq and a few tablets.... and so on and so on and so on). Yup, that would be so nice *drool*

**yyates05** · September 30th, 2009, 02:18 AM

im pretty sure SCAD has more crazy materials than Ringling

**lowercase** · September 30th, 2009, 02:03 PM

So far, Ringling hasn't supplied me with much of anything materials wise.

I've already spent a couple hundred bucks on art supplies (not including the core kit).

**drd** · September 30th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Yeah, right now I'm feeling pretty apprehensive about Ringling. I don't think I'll attend.

I've been thinking hard about what Jason said about non-college options...

**AlottaMulatta** · October 1st, 2009, 06:04 AM

I currently attend SCAD. If you're interested in the concept art field, I would advise the Sequential Art department over Illustration. Also, SCAD has recently added Concept Art as a minor, and it's designed to complement either the Sequential Art or the Game Design major.

The sequential art curriculum can really kick your ass, especially if you're taking courses to tailor your skills to the concept art industry rather than comics. You get a lot of instruction on anatomy, perspective, and color, as well as classes that focus on character design, concept development, and creature anatomy to name a few. You'll have some less motivated peers at the beginning, sure, but as you push on into the curriculum they fall off pretty fast.

Let's just say that if you want to succeed in the department, you learn the value of carefully-rationed sleep and energy drinks (though not quite as much as the poor animation kids, heheh).

Of course the downside is that SCAD is an expensive school, but if the cost difference between SCAD and Ringling is that extreme? Go to effin' SCAD. You WILL be pushed to do your best and you WILL have the opportunities to make the connections you need. And like anything else, you'll get out of it what you put into it.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

**lowercase** · October 1st, 2009, 08:58 AM

I have a couple friends from High School who are going to SCAD, and they both seem to love it.
If you want to build groping toys, bongs and Al-Qaeda collectable figurines (aka 3D Design), come to Ringling!

**drd** · October 1st, 2009, 05:44 PM

Thanks alotta, lowercase; it was helpful.

**jellyswirl** · October 4th, 2009, 04:22 PM

For me I went to a community college for 2 years then went to SCAD and learned a lot. I know I missed out on some classes but I saved a lot of money doing so. But overall I had a really great time at scad. And they really try to push you in whatever degree your for.

**thesinfulsaint** · October 4th, 2009, 10:59 PM

Which major are you looking at, drd? Illustration or Computer Animation? Better yet, what are you hoping to do when you are done? Do you want to be an animator? Concept Artist?

Lowercase is speaking from a freshman's perspective of Ringling. Freshman year is kind of a joke. Sophomore year Computer Animation is a punch in the nose, and it just keeps getting more intense from there on out. I don't think they could possibly push more into the curriculum if they tried. All students do is eat, sleep, and work on homework. Weekends don't exist. If you want stress... You've got it.

The Illustration department at Ringling is great, but the work ethic isn't quite the same as Computer Animation. You'll find a few who are really motivated, but there are also plenty that realize they can slide by on the bare minimum. Why they are spending $40k a year, I don't know. But whatever the case, you'll need a bit more self motivation here.

SCAD, as you say, will have plenty more variation in the level of motivation. You might have an easier time crossing over between Illustration/Sequential Art/3D animation courses there than you would at Ringling. The facilities are not as nice as Ringling's. The area is not a campus--you'll have to travel around the city to get to different buildings. However, the are still students who find success out of SCAD. 3D World Magazine rates them #3 in the US & Canada (Ringling is #1). And saving $85k is nothing to scoff at.

Really, if you haven't visited either campus, you really should. No one but you can make the final decision. I love Ringling. But I also wouldn't want to be in debt for the rest of my life.

**drd** · October 6th, 2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by thesinfulsaint

Which major are you looking at, drd? Illustration or Computer Animation? Better yet, what are you hoping to do when you are done? Do you want to be an animator? Concept Artist?

Lowercase is speaking from a freshman's perspective of Ringling. Freshman year is kind of a joke. Sophomore year Computer Animation is a punch in the nose, and it just keeps getting more intense from there on out. I don't think they could possibly push more into the curriculum if they tried. All students do is eat, sleep, and work on homework. Weekends don't exist. If you want stress... You've got it.

The Illustration department at Ringling is great, but the work ethic isn't quite the same as Computer Animation. You'll find a few who are really motivated, but there are also plenty that realize they can slide by on the bare minimum. Why they are spending $40k a year, I don't know. But whatever the case, you'll need a bit more self motivation here.

SCAD, as you say, will have plenty more variation in the level of motivation. You might have an easier time crossing over between Illustration/Sequential Art/3D animation courses there than you would at Ringling. The facilities are not as nice as Ringling's. The area is not a campus--you'll have to travel around the city to get to different buildings. However, the are still students who find success out of SCAD. 3D World Magazine rates them #3 in the US & Canada (Ringling is #1). And saving $85k is nothing to scoff at.

Really, if you haven't visited either campus, you really should. No one but you can make the final decision. I love Ringling. But I also wouldn't want to be in debt for the rest of my life.

Thanks for your reply. I want to be a concept artist; animation isn't really my thing, I found out, when I took it as an elective at Ringling precollege. The other was illustration, which I loved.

I went to SCAD for SCAD Day last weekend, and it was nice. Yeah, it's true that the buildings are spread around, but I sort of like that. From what the admisions reps saw of my tentative portfolio, I might be able to get a decent amount of scholarship money if I work on what they suggested.

I went and visited the different programs, mainly Game Design, Illustration, and Sequential Art. Out of the three, it actually seemed as if Sequential Art would be my best bet; If I end up at SCAD (which I'm hoping on), I'll be majoring in Seq. Art and minoring in Concept Art. Mia Paluzzi, the Seq. Art professor I was talking with and who gave me the tour of the Seq Art building, said that they're working on a concept Art major. Because of how flexible SCAD seems to be, I might be able to switch into Concept Art as a major and already have some courses out of the way.

Besides, I figure making comics is a type of concept work anyway; either way I'll be taking Creature Design classes, Character Design classes, Conceptual Illustration, etc.

I also hear that the Seq Art program is quite rigorous (not 100 percent sure), so that's good. I want to be pushed hard; stress motivates me best. However, I want some free time to work on my own things, which is why I would never study CA at Ringling.

**Nomnom De Guerre** · October 7th, 2009, 06:36 AM

But in a fight between the two schools who would win?

also I am reading many say that the Sequential Art program at SCAD is very demanding; what's the most demanding that Ringling offers? Are you (drd) saying that CA at Ringling is even more demanding?

and which one has the most lenient policies regarding constant nudity

**drd** · October 7th, 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nomnom De Guerre

But in a fight between the two schools who would win?

also I am reading many say that the Sequential Art program at SCAD is very demanding; what's the most demanding that Ringling offers? Are you (drd) saying that CA at Ringling is even more demanding?

and which one has the most lenient policies regarding constant nudity

CA, by far. Everyone I've heard talk about the CA program at Ringling has said it's very intense.

You'll need to clarify that last question

I don't think you're allowed to walk around naked anywhere

**Kismet** · October 25th, 2009, 05:38 PM

I personally would not say that Ringling's facilities are better than SCAD's. I'd say they're about the same. Especially since SCAD is like... a few times Ringling's size (both building/facility and student body wise). SCAD is a ahead of the industry curve in many areas; ESPECIALLY Sequential Art. The chair of the SQA dept said SEVERAL times that the materials you will be using in SCAD's SQA program were much better and far ahead of what someone would typically use in a professional Seq-related job. And when I looked around the Sequential Art building for myself (yes, it has its own building), I believed him.

SCAD gives a decent scholarship as long as you apply early enough. I'm currently attending SCAD (in fact, I'm in one of their computer labs, haha) and I don't have a scholarship of any kind (applied too late). However, my situation is different from most people's. (Thanks to a college savings fund, my parents aren't paying a single penny for my first year. So if something happens and I transfer, welp, at least it was virtually free.) But my parents are comfortable with paying for the next three years on their own. The price is nowhere near as bad as... well... Ringling, for starters. *Cough*

As long as you maintain a 3.0, you keep your scholarships. So, do well, and you have nothing to worry about. (On a side note, yes, you'll always have the people who take college less seriously than others. But to tell the truth, the amount of people here who're deadass serious far outweighs the amount of people who're not serious/not-as-serious. Heck, there are people here who are more serious than ME. So that says a lot...)

Edit: If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. You'd be surprised at how much I know about this place already, despite being a freshman. I've soaked it up like a sponge.

**drd** · October 25th, 2009, 07:59 PM

Thanks, Kismet. If I have any other questions I'll throw em to you. That was really helpful.

**NothingReallyExists** · October 25th, 2009, 11:01 PM

Seq. Art @SCAD....

It seems like it is more geared towards comic books as opposed to the entertainment industry (specifically games and movies is what I am seeking to get in to), am I right?

**drd** · October 26th, 2009, 12:01 AM

From what I saw when I visited, that seems about right...The professor I talked to said that they are trying to set up a Concept Art major for that field. She told me to make sure the professors knew that I was into concept art and entertainment design and that sort of thing and they would work with you, possibly along with the concept art minor they have atm

Of course, a SCAD opinion would more more helpful and more accurate

**Valerie C** · October 27th, 2009, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by drd

From what I saw when I visited, that seems about right...The professor I talked to said that they are trying to set up a Concept Art major for that field. She told me to make sure the professors knew that I was into concept art and entertainment design and that sort of thing and they would work with you, possibly along with the concept art minor they have atm

Of course, a SCAD opinion would more more helpful and more accurate

This is true. Much of the same techniques can be carried over. It might seem tedious to draw a one-page comic but at the same time it will cover different shots, storytelling, and consistency that doing one page of concept illustration will not. In cases like your senior project, you will be making the contract (yes, you do deal with contracts) with the professor in your own terms.

Presently the concept art minor in the game development side is lacking in my opinion. I think setting up a class much later down the game design curriculum would help more, especially if we had to partake in some of the later game design projects as a concept artist. As it is, the game design department has classes where they take a quarter to make a functional game (usually senior year) and working with them (off to the side, much like you will be doing for storyboards for film and television majors I might add) is a wonderful experience.

All that said, what you put in is what you get out. It amuses me to no end the number of freshmen who complain "I have soooo much work!" when all they have to do is this 24x36in still life or drawing. If you just do the minimal, you won't get anything out of the assignment. The fundamentals at SCAD are very sketchy and you will learn more from the CA.org downloads. Once you get into the Seqa program however, things really take off. I started SCAD not being able to draw and after I got all my fundamentals out of the way (all freshman year) I still really didn't have anything despite going over the top on all my projects. Sophomore year was my first Seqa class and the year ended with me being able to pull off 3 colored pages (10x15in) in 4 days that has correct coloring, good perspective, solid storytelling, and was done right after scrapping a fully rendered 7 page comic I was doing for the project instead. In fact, shoot me a PM and I'll show you examples of my work so you can see where you can get with SCAD when you put in 6-8 hours of work every single day.

**Aurry** · November 4th, 2009, 11:49 AM

"And saving $85k is nothing to scoff at."

sorry but I would like to ask how is Ringling cheaper than SCAD? The tuition for both ringling and savannah is about 30k a year isn't that right? including living expenses and material fees would bring that up to at least 40k a year o.o

**thesinfulsaint** · November 8th, 2009, 02:31 PM

SCAD is the same price as Ringling only on the surface. SCAD offers LOTS of scholarships. Most students pay $20k or less per year. Only 1-2 students get scholarships at Ringling. Almost every pays full price. I feel like the price of Ringling is worth it. That's something an individual would have to decide on his or her own.

**drd** · November 8th, 2009, 03:07 PM

I don't personally feel that that price can be justified by anything, unless it involved living in dorms with professional concept artists, illustrators and animators and have 24-hour access to watching them work

Shelling out that much cash is going to cripple someone who doesn't find a well-paying job after college, and even then it's going to be difficult.

**danlucas** · November 17th, 2009, 07:01 PM

Wow, I have only heard references of SCAD previous to reading this thread. SCAD sounds like a good school, more reasonable, somewhat more ahead in the the art instruction. I love the idea of working 6-8 hrs a day on just art without the distraction of general classes you get in typical Universities. The University I am at currently does a very poor job in the art department. Its great to hear about SCAD as I'm interested in going there after I graduate with my degree at my University I'm at now.

I'm definitely interested to hear more about SCAD and what it has to offer. I'm currently a Senior in my Graphic Design. Im much more interested in drawing and illustrating and progressing to a new level. I've been drawing on and off my whole life, so I feel i have some level of accomplishment in drawing but I know I can always improve and keep learning.

**CruShTinbOX** · November 19th, 2009, 06:02 AM

I can't believe how expensive these schools are now. I went to SCAD from 1998-2003 and when I started it was around 16k a year. Now it's close to 30? Jesus Christ.

Best case scenario that's $120,000 before living expenses and interest on the loan.

I got lucky and had parents willing to help me pay, but I have a buddy who also went to SCAD around the same time as I did who took out loans himself to pay for his education. He has around 150k in debt and minimum student loan payments of $1000 a month for the next 30 years.

Just something to think about.

SCAD is a nice school though. They didn't have any of these concept art and game art degrees when I went there, and i majored in Graphic Design so I can't really comment on the illustration and seq. art departments. But Savannah is a nice city and I had a really great time there and met some awesome people.

**JesArt** · November 20th, 2009, 11:40 PM

Ok, lets add another school to the mix, MICA, its the third best art school in the United States, and word around the camp fire is that they are really generous with scholarships. Personally, I really dont care about what artschool I go to, as long as the professors are dedicated to teaching, and the students challenge me everyday, I was really set on going to Ringling, but I just can not push myself to make those loans. Now if Ringling decides to offer more money, yes I will go, but if they dont and another art school really decides to invest more into my education, Ringling might not acquire this student. I cant fathom paying 150,000 dollars for a education that should only really cost at the most 70,000 dollars. Because when it comes all down to us getting a job, which is more of a realistic salary we will make straight out of artschool $70,000 or $150,000 and thats if we are lucky. So what do you guys think MICA or Ringling from a standpoint that concerns money ? Remember folks these schools are businesses and they are there to make money first then teach students, not vice versa.

**Clipping Path** · November 24th, 2009, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by CruShTinbOX

I can't believe how expensive these schools are now. I went to SCAD from 1998-2003 and when I started it was around 16k a year. Now it's close to 30? Jesus Christ.

Best case scenario that's $120,000 before living expenses and interest on the loan.

I got lucky and had parents willing to help me pay, but I have a buddy who also went to SCAD around the same time as I did who took out loans himself to pay for his education. He has around 150k in debt and minimum student loan payments of $1000 a month for the next 30 years.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. At $30,000 a year. Yes, that's $120K in tuition. But let's see the BEST case scenario of what you REALLY pay.

$120K paying the standard 6.8% student loan interest for an average time of 20 years and now we're looking at $219,841. cough cough.

And that's not taking in account of loan fees, living expenses and most importantly, the reality that tuition is rising at an annual pace of 7% each year. So by time you're a senior, that $30K a year has ballooned to $37,000 a year!!

So in reality, if you take in the account of the 7% tuition inflation, you'll actually be paying $133,300 in tuition. With standard school loans you'll actually be paying $244,208.

So when people tell you $30K a year. Remember, that means a quarter of a million dollars in school loan payments. I graduated from CCAD in '04 and have close friends from most of the "top" art schools in the country. And this is the cold hard truth facing many of my friends. They're virtually in poverty even while making $60K+ a year.