Pilot Hi-Tec-C Pens: Info from Pilot

**3DZealot** · October 6th, 2003, 01:05 PM

FWIW:

After watching Feng Zhu's Gnomon DVDs, I embarked on a quest for the now infamous Pilot Hi-Tec-C pen line, of which he uses in many of his works. A search of Conceptart.org revealed several threads on the topic, so I won't reiterate what was discussed. I have, however, contacted pilot with the intention of finding a similar product line available in the United States(and places abroad).

The following is Pilot's response:

"Thank you for your recent E-mail message. Yes, due to our marketing agreement with our parent company, and in some cases patent restrictions, we are unable to either sell or stock this item.

Each Pilot Affiliate has a specific list of products available to them and the residents of their marketing area. They may not sell outside of their area, nor may they sell directly to consumers. We are sorry to say these pens are unavailable to you unless you travel abroad.

Our Precise PV-5 and 7 would be equivalent to the Hi-Tec. However, we have only .5mm and .7mm available. Nothing smaller is available. These can be viewed on our website www.pilotpen.us under the Rolling Ball line.

If you would like samples sent please supply your complete mailing address and specify your color preference."

Note that only .5mm and .7mm are available. 0.3mm, and 0.4mm are not included in the US product line.

I thought this information would be somewhat valuable to the community, as this matter has posed a considerable annoyance for many of us. If anyone has found a suitable replacement, please post your findings so that we can have this thread as a resource for later user perusal.

I pray that this thread is posted in the proper forum, and I apologize to the Conceptart.org staff if I have posted this thread in error.

Thank you all for your time.

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 6th, 2003, 01:16 PM

i just use 'staedtler' pigment liner 0.2 mm.

its not the materials that make the artist!

**3DZealot** · October 6th, 2003, 01:21 PM

cartoonfox:

Much apprecieated. Let me mention that I completly agree with you that the materials don't make the artist. I am personally new to Inking, and cannot find a SIMILAR product that Feng has used to teach. This was simply my attempt to further understand the options available, and to procure a source of inking instruments capable of producing the line work I am currently attempting to learn.

You comments are, of course, dually noted.

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 6th, 2003, 01:26 PM

hey np. i didnt meen anything by it, just that there are alot of pens out there suitible to use for inking. i suggest trying out a few and finding one that suits your personal style.

good luck.

**3DZealot** · October 6th, 2003, 01:41 PM

Of course, no offence taken.

Perhaps you could recommend a line of disposable pens that has 0.3mm, 0.4mm, and 0.5mm as options. I cannot seem to locate rollerball pens of any quality with these sizes.

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 6th, 2003, 01:53 PM

i use a steadtler 0.2 mm pen. i know they have a whole range of sizes, but i'm not sure where you would get them from (unless you live in cardiff

)
try going to your local art store and testing out a few.

**negativespace** · October 6th, 2003, 03:17 PM

Doug Chiang uses a Pilot Razor Point II pen. Might want to try that one out. Doug Chiang

**cucaracha** · October 6th, 2003, 03:27 PM

(btw. I don't think that Pilot pens are the ultimate drawing tool which immediately generate feng-concepts :p)

I use
- Pilot V-something fountain pens
- Faber-Castell ecco pigment 0.1, 0.3, 0.5
- black ink con brushes & pens

(anyways, at the moment I try to master the pencil... its my fav so far

)

cu

**3DZealot** · October 6th, 2003, 03:43 PM

negativespace: Thanks for the heads-up. I'm looking into it now.

cucaracha: Why did you feel the need to say that? Is it not obvious that I am making an attempt to study and practice certain conceptual design techniques utilizing the tools mentioned and used by the teacher from whom I'm learning?

I fully understand that these pens are not the cream of the crop, but from the point of view of a beginner in inking, I must say I'm quite confused by all the choices available, as well as the lack of choices in pens that are available in a broad range of tip sizes.

If I hear this one more time, I'm going to get a bit upset. What is wrong with making inquiries about drawing tools? Did I say I expected these pens to create the art for me? Perhaps I should have known better than to ask about them. I honestly don't understand why everyone continues to mention that "it's not the tools, it's the artist". I'm simply attempting to learn how to use pens to ink my work.
I too am attempting to "master the pencil", but if I don't experiment with differing media, how will I ever progress? Do you tell people who are trying to learn about watercolor or oils manufactures that they can't expect the media to do the work for them?

Thanks for the input, though, and I will redouble my efforts to understand the meriad thousands of pens apparently available for this task.

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 6th, 2003, 03:54 PM

hi. when we (or at least i) said "its not the materials that make the artist" i only said it because you seemed a bit upset or angry that you couldnt find the pens you wanted to buy, and i just wanted to explain to you not to worry, there are plenty of pens available that will do the job. maybe i used the wrong saying.
i didnt mean, in anyway, to insult or anger you, and if i did, then i appolagise.

i'm sure you will find the pens that fit your style perfectly, and i wish you good luck in practicing concept (or any other) art.

have a nice day.

**3DZealot** · October 6th, 2003, 04:02 PM

Listen, I'm sorry. I really did'nt mean to lose it like that. I just get upset when people assign motives to a seemingly innocent and reasonable question that are simply not there.

It would seem that you gentlemen have seen a great deal of new artists that believe that if they can just get the tools, they can do quality work. I'm by no means a Feng fanboy, but I like his thinking and it seems to suit my personal style well. I guess I've been a bit excited the past few days because after watching his DVDs, I finally understood how to lay down ink well. I guess I was sorta insulted that people would abitraraly assign rather moronic motives to what I thought was a reasonable request/info-gathering-session. Try searching the 'net sometime for a pen that has all the characteristics of the Hi-Tecs, and you will find that there is a serious lack of similar products available to the US market.

Eh.

Thanks for all the replies, and I appologize for becoming too insensed over such a minor and rather ludacris matter. You gentlemen were only attempting to help, and I guess I read too much into the posts.

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 6th, 2003, 04:21 PM

i know exactly how you feel. i'm a newbie myself, and although i havent seen fengs dvd's, it was his art work that got interested and inspired to go into concept art.

like i said earler, i recomend testing out a whole range of products, and finding the right ones for your style and proccess. it evan says that on fengs website!

anyway, good luck in your search and art, looking forward to seeing some of your stuff.

(btw, i find it funny how you called me 'gentleman'!

lol, i dont think i'm old enough to be a gentleman

(although i am male!

))

**cucaracha** · October 7th, 2003, 08:57 AM

Ho, don't be offended. You noticed the smiley? Well it illustrates that I didn't post with a bad intention.

Don't be angry, I just wanted to say that every pen is filled with some kind of ink and that every pen tip transfers it in some way to the paper. Just test some pens and take one that has a nice black ink and easily transfers it.

cu

**3DZealot** · October 7th, 2003, 11:18 AM

Again, I'm sorry I got so offended. It was rather rediculous, and I extend my appologies. Guess the 'ol ego was rearing it's ugly head.

Actually, let me further detail my problem so that perhaps you guys can help me. I understand that testing pens is a great way to find what you like, but I simply cannot find what I need.

Feng shows inking like this:

He first outlines every important line and detail with a .3mm pen.

He then goes in with a .4mm pen and thickens certain lines(usually around more important details, and around the bottom edges of larger structures). He also uses this pen to thicken lines of objects and shapes closer to the camera.

After all that, he goes in with a .5mm pen to thicken the most important lines.

So my problem is that I've been to 4 different art supply and office supply stores, and I cannot find any rollerball pens that are available in the .3mm to .5mm range of sizes. They are all too big. I even been looking online rather exhaustivly, even on the big sites like dickblick.com, and cannot find a pen set with these ranges.

So that's really the crux of my problem. Any thoughts?

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 7th, 2003, 11:47 AM

dont look for roller ball, get fine liner pens.

**3DZealot** · October 7th, 2003, 11:51 AM

Sorta like an old school rapidoliner but disposable?

-3DZ

**cartoonfox** · October 7th, 2003, 11:57 AM

not sure, but the are disposable. go into your local art store and just ask what ink pens they have, then just test them out.

**3DZealot** · October 7th, 2003, 12:03 PM

You forget I live in the states. Massive stores with little selection and everything is tightly wrapped up. No testing for us!

But, there may be some old school art supply stores around. I think I might try the local art institute's student store...see if that yields anything.

Thanks for the input!

-3DZ

**Elwell** · October 7th, 2003, 12:31 PM

I'd recommend checking out Micron pens by Sakura. They come in six sizes from .2mm to .5mm and the pigmented ink is waterproof and fadeproof. For thicker lines or large black areas their Graphic and Brush pen lines use the same ink.

**cartoonfox** · October 7th, 2003, 12:34 PM

np, good luck

**Kortez** · October 7th, 2003, 02:14 PM

Hi,

If you can find some hybrid gel pens from Pentel, buy them.
they are the next best thing. But I can't assure you that it's exactly like the Pilot Hi-Tecs, cause they haven't been available in iceland for 2-3 years now.

You can get hybrid 0.6 (the ball is 0.6, the tip is 0.2-0.3) and it's pretty much the same (as far as i can remember) as the hi-tech 0.3. You should also check out rotring graphic 0.3, I didn't like it at first, but when you get used to it, it's quite nice.

I did some lines to show you the difference between various pens. But of course I can't find the cable to my scanner, and my digital camera is out of batteries

I'll post it here later

**Tedsuo** · October 7th, 2003, 03:19 PM

As an alternative opinion, I personally dislike the Hi-Tec C. The tip is just a little metal cylinder, and I don't like the way it feels on the paper. Sorta skratchy, even though the ink flow is fine.

**3DZealot** · October 7th, 2003, 03:45 PM

Well geeze, thanks a ton guys.

Kortez: Thanks so much for going to all that trouble. I really appreciate it.

Tedsuo: Thanks for the heads-up. It did'nt look scratchy, but I'm starting to see what you are talking about. Thanks for that.

Elwell: Thanks for the link and recommendation. I'm looking at buying a few. I used to use them as a kid, but I can't remember how well they worked.

Again, thanks guys!

-3DZ

**strych9ine** · October 7th, 2003, 04:39 PM

I have used Microns for years, but it's noteworthy to say that these are felt tip, not ballpoint. You get quite different rendering capabilities between the two. They are fantastic nonetheless.

**3DZealot** · October 7th, 2003, 05:02 PM

I'm remarkably confused. If one goes to any of the major pen manufacturer's websites, you will see pens listed by type:

Ballpoint
Rollerball
Gel

Etc.

Now, what in the heck is teh dif between ballpoint and "rollerball"?

I swear they are doing this on purpose.

-3DZ

**BadMange** · October 7th, 2003, 09:05 PM

3DZealot, do a search (famous last words). This thread HERE lists two places in the US to buy Hi-Tec C's from.

-Bad Mange

**3DZealot** · October 7th, 2003, 09:35 PM

While I apprecieate the link, If you had actually taken the time to read my post, you would have disovered within the first few sentences that I did indeed search conceptart.org for all relevant information. You would have also discovered that I was looking for a replacement for the Hi-Tec-C pens, not the actual pens.

-3DZ

**BadMange** · October 8th, 2003, 04:33 PM

So you did, my mistake! I did read your post, but must've missed that part about doing a search already (even though your post wasn't long). And that's why I wrote "Famous Last Words"!!

**gasmask** · October 8th, 2003, 04:40 PM

i know where to get them in seattle, the c pens. Im sure any major city has them in the internation district because thats where they are at in seattle

**Deadsprite** · October 8th, 2003, 10:01 PM

if you're looking for a really fine line pen ... you might want to consider a rapidiograph pen. true they are slightly expensive and people complain about them clogging. but all the ones i have had, i used straight for about a year or two with no problem till the tips got bent (some freak was looking at it when i was in the can and dropped it ... i almost killed him) or when the actual casing got crushed (don't keep them with any of your books in your backpack and just toss your backpack idly onto the concrete ... baaaaad mojo) other than that i would try any one of the hard felt tip illustration pens ... ah here we go ... ZIG MILLENIUM ... it's a silver pen i can find at alot of craft stores, jo-anns michaels, etc. they make a mean pen and you can get them all the way down to 005 and 000 if you want. oh and they are only about a couple bucks each so if anything does happen to them ... no worries .. just toss and replace.