Middle-Eastern Fantasy (Very, very minor nudity)

[pocko]

Hey everyone, not posted much work on here before, but I figured I'd see what everyone's opinions on this work are. While I've put in about as much work as I can in the time-frame and I consider them finished, I'd still love some advice on what problems to be aware of next time.

The rough brief I set myself was to create a group of characters for a potential game based in a mid-1800's Middle-Eastern country. It would be a fantasy world with magic/demons etc, but grounded in reality. While I hesitate to use the term steampunk, there are some elements that could probably be classed as this!

Oh, it's for my final year Games Art degree, the quality's a bit low, but unfortunately there's really not much "art" in my degree ()

Its, done in watercolours and copic mulitliners on 90lb paper, then adjusted in Photoshop. A3 Size.

[Danilo]

Nice work man! Rearly seen such sence of measure. You should search for some book illustration job.

[pocko]

thanks, it's nice to know i'm heading in just about the right direction

[Jason Rainville]

Nice work man! Rearly seen such sence of measure. You should search for some book illustration job.

No offense to the OP, but I disagree. My evidence is such; go into the finally finished section and always remind yourself that what's in there is only a tiny fraction of working illustrators who are working in REAL LIFE. In other words, the FF section is your competition.

Your skills are going to need a lot of work if you want to actually get good jobs in the real world. All of your characters are stiff, flat, and anatomically incorrect.

Even though the anatomy on the figures is competent, it's very basic. Each character has formless limbs with no sense of volume. I think you need to take a lot of time going to figure drawing classes or drawing from photos (though try to get life drawing in there somehow) and learn about FORM and PLANES. Andrew Loomis' books are good for that, especially 'drawing the head and hands' You can get them here

You're just starting your journey, and I'd focus on practice rather than production: do a lot of studies and pieces that will help you improve (colouring, drawing from life, perspective practice etc) rather than finished personal projects.

Just remember that anyone can do it with enough hard work

[pocko]

lol its hard not to get defensive about your babies isnt it? but hey, im here to learn.

thanks jason, i really need to get some life drawing done dont i? its frustrating not having the skills to fully realise the images in my head. i suppose while i should be drawing more in my spare time, its irritating going into a degree that is so focused on finished products, rather than gaining new skills.

[Jason Rainville]

lol its hard not to get defensive about your babies isnt it? but hey, im here to learn.

thanks jason, i really need to get some life drawing done dont i? its frustrating not having the skills to fully realise the images in my head. i suppose while i should be drawing more in my spare time, its irritating going into a degree that is so focused on finished products, rather than gaining new skills.

Yeah tell me about it. Same thing with my graphic design course. Only now that I'm in 3rd year do we have a decent drawing teacher. Moral of the story; take your education into your own hands. If even you have only an hour a day to draw, still take that chance to draw instead of watching tv/playing video games etc.

[Snake-Woman]

I think that these show a nice use of color and good conceptual thinking but I agree that a more thorough knowledge of anatomy and clothing is needed.

[mecos]

i have to disagree with jason. as a graphic designer that has hired several illustrators, we always search for particular styles and not necessarily rendering/drawing skills. your drawings have a very nice illustrative quality and a strong graphic look. i can imagine a very chic coffee shop with some of your graphics on the walls where realistically rendered characters might just be tasteless.

[Jason Rainville]

i have to disagree with jason. as a graphic designer that has hired several illustrators, we always search for particular styles and not necessarily rendering/drawing skills. your drawings have a very nice illustrative quality and a strong graphic look. i can imagine a very chic coffee shop with some of your graphics on the walls where realistically rendered characters might just be tasteless.

Though I agree that realism isn't always the best course of action, I will disagree with you also; This style is arising BECAUSE of a gap in realistic knowledge, not in spite of such knowledge. By saying this style is nice means that if you were selecting illustrators and wanted this style, well of course it's pocko's happy day since he won this time. BUT what if he wanted a job that called for realism, or another style, or other styles he can't produce since he's missing the one thing that gives birth to all of them; realism. He'd be narowing his prospects if he chose to pursue this style without realistic artistic knowledge.

The same thing goes for what you draw. If all you draw is heroes and no enviros, you'll be stuck only getting the hero/character jobs. Even if I was looking for a style similar to this, pocko's stuff shows a defenite lack of sophistication and artistic experience that would put me off (no offense pocko)

Study realism but produce what you want.

[mecos]

pocko's stuff shows a defenite lack of sophistication and artistic experience that would put me off (no offense pocko)

sophistication requires "inside" knowledge to understand, pocko's stuff has sophistication. it's reminiscent of old middle eastern drawing. the flatness, the posing, proportions and color palettes are all there, but you have to know middle eastern art to see it which = sophistication.

realism is not sophisticated because anyone and everyone understands it and recognizes it. there are sophisticated methods of creating realism like representing only light, or only edges or never using black - that takes artistic knowledge to recognize, but realism itself is not sophisticated.

[Jason Rainville]

sophistication requires "inside" knowledge to understand, pocko's stuff has sophistication. it's reminiscent of old middle eastern drawing. the flatness, the posing, proportions and color palettes are all there, but you have to know middle eastern art to see it which = sophistication.

realism is not sophisticated because anyone and everyone understands it and recognizes it. there are sophisticated methods of creating realism like representing only light, or only edges or never using black - that takes artistic knowledge to recognize, but realism itself is not sophisticated.

First off, you misunderstand. I did not say that realism is more sophisticated than styles of rendering. Rather realism is the foundation for all of those styles. Realism isn't the "best" but it's necessary to learn the basics of all art. Since art is based on the principles of the real, aesthetic world, then all artistic styles benefit from realistic study.

Second, you're drawing these ideas from his art that were never meant to be inferred; they're flat coloured without light, from full frontal view or 3/4 with regards to the faces, not because he chose so, but because he doesn't yet have the skills to produce things that have form or correct anatomy. The iron worker illustration has a chest that looks like it's 2 inches thick whereas the rest is trying to have form. This isn't a flat treatment in a middle eastern style since it's not consistent or convincing.

You're essentially giving the ultimate deviantart copout, "It's his style."

Pocko - you develop whatever style you want, but always study realism as it carries with it the underlying principles of all art. You need to know the rules before you break them.

[mecos]

First off, you misunderstand. I did not say that realism is more sophisticated than styles of rendering. Rather realism is the foundation for all of those styles. Realism isn't the "best" but it's necessary to learn the basics of all art. Since art is based on the principles of the real, aesthetic world, then all artistic styles benefit from realistic study.

Second, you're drawing these ideas from his art that were never meant to be inferred; they're flat coloured without light, from full frontal view or 3/4 with regards to the faces, not because he chose so, but because he doesn't yet have the skills to produce things that have form or correct anatomy. The iron worker illustration has a chest that looks like it's 2 inches thick whereas the rest is trying to have form. This isn't a flat treatment in a middle eastern style since it's not consistent or convincing.

You're essentially giving the ultimate deviantart copout, "It's his style."

Pocko - you develop whatever style you want, but always study realism as it carries with it the underlying principles of all art. You need to know the rules before you break them.

realism is not the basis for all art. realism is very young in comparison to the rest of art history. many styles before realism evolve from symbolism not realism.

yes i drew ideas and comparisons from his art that he probably did not intend and looking at the rest of his work i can almost say this is how he pretty much draws all the time but i think it's also successful. i also think he has a clear understanding of the human body, he just has trouble representing it in a naturally manner, but the symbolism he uses to represent what he knows is very clear and accidentally adequate.

overall he has lots to improve in many areas of drawing, but as far as these pieces go i would push towards stylizing them further.

[Ito Saith Webb]

realism is not the basis for all art. realism is very young in comparison to the rest of art history. many styles before realism evolve from symbolism not realism.

yes i drew ideas and comparisons from his art that he probably did not intend and looking at the rest of his work i can almost say this is how he pretty much draws all the time but i think it's also successful. i also think he has a clear understanding of the human body, he just has trouble representing it in a naturally manner, but the symbolism he uses to represent what he knows is very clear and accidentally adequate.

overall he has lots to improve in many areas of drawing, but as far as these pieces go i would push towards stylizing them further.

Sorry but I could not help but balk at the realism comment. Art really arose from representation ( like the cave man drawings, they very first ), symbolism in art many arose from religion which if I remember right is iconography. As for realism in art being young!? Give me a break the Greeks had a strong basis in realism even if they did it in a heroic manner and every learned from them. The romans learned from them and then the rest of the world. Yes that realism was for the most part in sculpture it did show the understanding.

As for what is Jason is saying I would have to agree with him in some degree especially when it comes to a point in time when you have to switch styles, looks, or themes in a moment's notice. It is very rare that one can be a success as a one trick pony.

Now in Pocko's defense he did say this was for a video game and had stated that there isn't much art in the degree he is attempting to acquire. He also said that this was a basis and never mentioned that this was the final concept look for the characters of his game. Also just directly looking at the art that he has shown I haven't really seen his other art or I suspect that many others have, so who is to say that he has or does not have the skill.

[mecos]

Sorry but I could not help but balk at the realism comment. Art really arose from representation ( like the cave man drawings, they very first ), symbolism in art many arose from religion which if I remember right is iconography. As for realism in art being young!? Give me a break the Greeks had a strong basis in realism even if they did it in a heroic manner and every learned from them. The romans learned from them and then the rest of the world. Yes that realism was for the most part in sculpture it did show the understanding.

As for what is Jason is saying I would have to agree with him in some degree especially when it comes to a point in time when you have to switch styles, looks, or themes in a moment's notice. It is very rare that one can be a success as a one trick pony.

Now in Pocko's defense he did say this was for a video game and had stated that there isn't much art in the degree he is attempting to acquire. He also said that this was a basis and never mentioned that this was the final concept look for the characters of his game. Also just directly looking at the art that he has shown I haven't really seen his other art or I suspect that many others have, so who is to say that he has or does not have the skill.

symbolism is representation and it did not arose from religion - symbolism is our most basic understanding of representation like a stick figure is a symbol representation of a man but not a realistic one.

[Jason Rainville]

realism is not the basis for all art.

You're right, correction;

Real life is the basis of all art.