Lord Magnus WIP

[Dread_Reaper]

Okay, this is something new. Trying for something a bit smaller scale this time around. Just a simple face, of an older man. Hoping to get come critiques earlier on, so as not repeat the disaster of some of my previous works.

I am also experimenting with documentation, trying to show it at different phases, which will hopefully be able to give better insight into the process I go through.

Unfortunately I lost stage 1, but here are 2 and 3, in that order.

Rip this thing apart ladies and gentlemen (as if I need to tell you).

-Dread_Reaper

[Naastika]

I think the thing that really stands out first as odd is the nose. It looks like it would if you were looking at him straight-on, while the rest of his face is turned. His beard looks like it was pasted onto his face. maybe try to show how it grows out of the skin at the edges, rather than have it all rounded. The hairline isn't even all the way across his head. His right half is receding more than his left half. I think you can have a cool looking dude, keep posting your progress, it's fun to see.

[black_nomad12]

nose, eyes (looks like MS paint) and the beard... just take that... ehem... nose and grab onto it... and yank it straight... Then, do a study on eyes... then as 'Naastika' said, make the beard look as if it is growing from the skin...

P.S. What is the story behind this pic?

[Valerian]

Another thing concerning the beard. I think you should look at some reference and fix his lower lip. It looks rather small. But before that, look at your eyes in the mirror, photos of eyes etc. and compare them to what you've drawn and improve it.

[Pesmerga_2501]

Hey Dread!

Good stuff so far. I think everyone has pointed out a few prominent things so I will not repeat them. I think you have a good grasp of concept it is simply execution. I think the major issue is how things are lining up. if you drew a line down the center of his face from his brow to his chin his face is skewed slightly. His whole face is shifting right and its causing that look of awkwardness. Proportionality I don't think its too bad. The others before me have pointed out the eyes but have not explained why...well I will. The eyes seem like they are overlapping the face. Its like you drew them on a layer on top of the face. The thick jagged edges and lack of an upper lid is causing this. Luckily its an easy fix . Another easy fix is the hair and eyebrows. Normally hair has very soft edges. A good way to go is to blur and blend the ends into the kin so it looks like the mass is growing out from the form and not just simply laying on top of it. All of these are simple mistakes that we all can make form time to time so don't worry. I think Your main issue in this piece is edges and planes with your lighting. Some edges are too hard when they should be soft (like his temple), and some are so loose when they should be tight (like his nose.) Give your forms a definite surface and just think to yourself, is this part hard or soft? Round or angled? Always ask questions of your art and you will find you can solve a lot of your problems by yourself ^^.

Here are two paint overs I compiled for you. The first showing some proportion and structure issues, and the second is a little more painterly to show edges and lighting with some adjustments tot he eye, hair lines, and structure.





I hope you find these helpful. If not don;t worry sometimes I think I am a total hack XD. I love the direction your going in and eagerly await to see your progress. Keep us posted!

~all the best!

[Dread_Reaper]

Thanks for the great critiques guys! This is really what I need so get my direction down! And so positive too, that is a welcome thing as well.

I am working on incorporating all of those things, but most of all I am focusing on the eyes right now. Here is a render of it so far.

The eyes are always that hardest part to get, but you guys are really helping. I will hopefully have a full render later.

-Dread_Reaper

[Pesmerga_2501]

That is like 3000% better Dread. Just remember that the eye lids have a bit of thickness to them as well. true they do crumple up, but they are still covering over the eye which is a spherical object. Your crease should end up a bit farther from the origin to show the shape of the eyeball underneath.

[Dread_Reaper]

Okay, i am getting a bit closer to being done with the face.... and now.... THE HAIR. I am really not looking forward to working on the hair, to be honest. If anyone has any advice on that before I get started, please speak now. Anyway, this is it as it stands, in stage whatever.

Thank you everyone for your help so far!

-Dread_Reaper

[Dread_Reaper]

Moving this to the Critique Center. See you all there, and thank you for your critiques so far! Onward to ART!

-Dread_Reaper

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...12#post1630812

[Jillian]

Hi Dread_Reaper!
Beautiful portrait so far! If you're looking for a way to paint hair, Linda Bergkvist did a wonderful tutorial: http://www.furiae.com/index.php?view=gallery It is a bit advanced, but there is a whole lot of good stuff in there. But basically, she says it is just paint where the hair falls, sense it tends to fall together in clumps, painting it strand by strand = bad.

[Dread_Reaper]

Thanks for the tutorial! I hope I was able to put it to good use!

Anyway, here is the current (and I think final) version. Any final crits before I end this one, speak now!

-Dread_Reaper

[NemesisOnline]

Much better, I like the texture of the skin. there are still lots of problems, though. The hair is the most glaring, it doesn't seem to belong to the figure, it looks pasted on, I think the problem is partly the lighting, there are highlights where it should be in shadow. You've also tried to draw each individual strand, all going in the same direction, and in looks like you keep going back and forth with the pen making them look broken, look at the tutorial Jillian posted, it's excellent.

The eyes/eyelids look way off. Again, use reference.

The deep shadows on right side (to us) of his nose makes no sense at all, your light is coming from the right, that side of his nose should be in the full light. look at Pesmerga_2501's paintover.

[Dread_Reaper]

Thanks Martyr! I totally hadn't noticed that about the nose. Thanks.

As for the hair, I will work on redoing it, hopefully have it done by tonight.

The question I have though, is what is wrong with the eyes?

-Dread_Reaper

[Pesmerga_2501]

Its your eye lids mate. The creases are caused by the lid wrapping around the edge of the shape as they meet with the rest of the skull. Think of how the eyeball sits in the socket and the eye lids are like little visors on top that roll to the back. If you look at your characters eyelids at where they are it looks like his eyes are really deep ellipses instead of a sphere. Now the top lid you can get away with because the expression he is making is caused by the brow muscles tilting downward and compressing. However the bottom lid should not change. When you grimace your cheek come up which causes that deep expression, not the eye lid going smaller. And remember that the top lid overlaps the bottom when you reach the corners. I attatched a paint over to visually explain. Hope it helps.



~cheers!

[Dread_Reaper]

Hopefully this was what you were talking about. Thank you so much for your help!

As for the hair, I am debating whether or not to redo it, because the hair is really only supposed to go one way on this guy.... the tutorial is really good, but I am contemplating leaving the hair relatively as is.

-Dread_Reaper

[Pesmerga_2501]

yes it is exactly what i was talking about, and i would redo his hair. its not the fact of varying the hair. Its the fact that we see virtually each individual strand. It doesn't look too natural the way it is (this goes in regard to the eyebrows and beard as well). It creates an effect my teachers often refer to as "Noodle hair". you've worked so hard in rendering out his face that if you leave it the hair will just ruin in. If you do not decide to I would advise at least blending and smoothing out the edges of his hair at the hair line where the hair is growing out form his skull. This will help merge it down and feel like its growing out form his skull instead of looking like a shape floating on top.

And you are most welcome i am always up to helping when i can. heh but with all my talk I am just waiting for one of you to get your revenge in one of my posts XD

~cheers

[Dread_Reaper]

And you are most welcome i am always up to helping when i can. heh but with all my talk I am just waiting for one of you to get your revenge in one of my posts XD

You can always PM me if you have a new thread, and I will be the first man there to give my critiques. Granted, you are a much better artist than I am, but I will help out in any way that I can. I will fix the hair tomorrow, I have been doodling all day and need some rest.

Must think about starting sketchbook soon....

-Dread_Reaper

[Dread_Reaper]

Okay, I finally got around to fixing the hair using the tutorial that Jillian had. I think the result is definitely improved. Thoughts? I think this one is almost done.

-Dread_Reaper

[Naastika]

The hair is looking better, except for the fact that it still doesn't look like it's growing out of his head and face.

[Pesmerga_2501]

Looking much better dread. keep pushing that hairline, you want it to almost blend in with the forehead so it looks like its part of it. Now comes the part I think is the most agonizing, filing it down until it has that finished polish. I think you should soften the edges along the right side of his face (shadow side). This will help with the illusion that its actually rolling back with the form and not so much cut and pasted. remember if you want things to come forward give them hard sharp edges. If you want things to round out soften them, and if you want them to recede away smudge the hell out of them. This will give you better definition of form. Also Perhaps add more volumes of hair to his left side. I am looking at it and proportionally you would be seeing more of the side of his skill by the angle he is at, ergo more hair should be there. But that is just me...take another look at it and tell me what you think.

[Dread_Reaper]

I softened the other side of the face. Better, yes? Still working on the hair though.

Pesmerga, which side of his head do you think needs more hair. Is it his left, or our left? Which side of the page? Also, I am not entirely sure what you mean by "add more volume". Please explain, dear Pes.

Thank you so much to everyone who has helped me out so far!

-Dread_Reaper

[Pesmerga_2501]

Lol...well you tell me if it looks better, look at your current one and the one from before XD.

Ask yourself some questions sometimes and see if your really happy with it. I think it looks much better, you even tightened up his nose which is awesome and really helps explain his form much better. I know this may seem like the never ending project, but there is still much more to do.

When i was working on the following paint over I noticed a few things. One is that the reflected light on the side of the face you just blurred is a tiny bit bright. I would knock that back a bit in value because when I squint both the light side and that reflected light almost read the same and that flattens out your form, or subconsciously makes it look concave, which is even worse @_@

The second problem is his beard/mouth/chin, and it has nothing to do with how you rendered it, its actually the structure of it . I was looking at how your form is turning and realized..your beard and mustache is starring straight at us when his face is turned at an angle. I tired looking away and re looking at it with a sort of nah couldn't be...but then it was like oh No! XD Remember a mouth is a horse shoe shape the edge that should be receding is on the same plane as the front part and that is what is causing that slight look of awkwardness...if you haven't noticed yet. I don;t know if you still have the beard in a separate layer..if you do this will be an easy fix since all you will need to do is alter the jaw underneath and cover it back up...if not then you have your work cut out for you...or just leave it and make a mental note for a later image. Great work though i hope this piece has taught you a lot .

Here is my meager paint over:



~cheers

[Toxdel]

watching the progress on this piece is astonishing. I kept thinking of advice to give you but then I noticed you fixed it later on in the thread. Check the spot by his left eye it looks like the crevice is following over to the side of his face. Also close of the left eye, you really shouldn't see the white of the eye sticking out like that from that angle.

Good work so far.

[thr0atcutter]

There's some pretty nice progress you made
I just think his right eye (our left) should use some improvance
I like how you blured his hair a little, becouse when the hair is too sharp, no matter how realistic the painting is, the hair cannot be. I like it now.

[Dread_Reaper]

Thank you everyone for your very useful advice! I am back at my comp after a little weekend vacation, and I should have these thing incorporated by tomorrow.

And Pes, I totally see what you mean about the beard. At first I didn't even notice it, but now that you do, I can't see anything else. DAMNATION! Back to the work...

Someone once told me that a piece of art is only finished when the artist gets tired of working on it. Truer words were never spoken.

-Dread_Reaper

[Pesmerga_2501]

Someone once told me that a piece of art is only finished when the artist gets tired of working on it. Truer words were never spoken.

-Dread_Reaper

Or you "accidently" toss a pallet knife through it >_>

Welcome back Dread. You were missed, and yeah it sucks because your already at a far stage...but I think you can handle it. Best of luck.

[Dread_Reaper]

I am a Photoshop HERO!

Hopefully the final one. Thanks to all of you for your great advice! Any more crits, or is this ugly ready to be shipped off to the forum of the great beyond?

-Dread_Reaper

[merl1n]

hey!

wow.. I can see a great progress!!! it is going to look cool

anyway what I can see now is that his beard and mouth are bit off.. I mean Pesmerga_2501 has got a point. The paintover he posted says all what need to be done...

cheers!

[Dread_Reaper]

Okay, new mouth. Changed the lips and the goatee position and size.

CAN I PLEASE BE DONE NOW????

-Dread_Reaper