"An Anime Artist's Retort to the Anti-Anime Artist"(NSFW)

[FlipMcgee]

I haven't been following the burning anime threads here (too busy drawing) so pardon me if this opinion piece was already mentioned here before. Pic unrelated to article but included for educational purposes.


http://news.deviantart.com/article/35005/ (actual article begins where it says "Issue Eight" in bold text)

So why do Anti-Anime Artists act the way they do towards us Anime Artists?

Reason Four: ... Anti-Anime Artists are jealous of Anime Artists.

Reason #5: Fear of the unknown + Not the status quo = Anti-Anime Artists

[Seedling]

Could you please add "NSFW" to the title? Thanks.

[Elwell]

Could you please add "NSFW" to the title? Thanks.

Done.

[Costau D]

Wow.........

[rapxic]

i'm really confused is there anything called anti anime artist , i think if work is done really good , people will admire it .but if it looks cheap , don't expect anyone to put a high price on it., i think the person who wrote this was just over reacting. he should try harder to get a beter reponse.this article should just be ignored.

[Zilant]

Ah god,
My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

[JonZ_]

Funny how she (or he) end with a promotional of upcoming crappy dvd.

Jeaolous? I think it reciprocal...

[Elwell]

I've posted this before, but it seems appropriate:

[mambo]

I've posted this before, but it seems appropriate:

Classic. That's almost tattoo worthy!

[SpaceRogue]

DA = dramalama


I especially love how the 'u r just jelous' in art keeps returning.

(fear of the unknown ,wth XD )

[Farvus]

I think it's actually the opposite with "Fear of the unknown". Especially when cheap manga artist enters CA forum .

[kev ferrara]

The fact is, Manga was an Axis creation during World War II. Hitler and Goering were looking for a way to spread the Nazi message in a more populist form and both being great fans of Disney (believe it or not) they engaged their culture ministry to obtain some cartoon artists in germany to create a popular style to use in propaganda posters. The German artists failed to live up to Hitler's wishes (Hitler having been an artist himself) so Hitler essentially outsourced the creation of these propaganda cartoons to Japan. Hirohito was glad to oblige, formed a huge studio of Japans best cartoonists, and this is why Manga came out of Japan.

Quite a bit of early Manga had hidden swastikas in the hair of the characters as secret code demonstrating its origin. Of course very few nowadays know the origins of Manga, so many draw the hair without the swastikas.

One of the reasons so few know about the origins of manga is because the main studio producing the propaganda was destroyed in the first atomic bomb blast. (It was right near the Nissan steel plant, which produced war material and had not yet started making cars, which I think first happened in the late 1950s or early 60s)

Anyhow, before anybody defends Manga too strongly, you should know its origins in Nazi propaganda. Its design was strictly for the purposes of fooling the unwitting. Unfortunately, it has found some degree of success lately, which I think demonstrates the resurgence of a certain ideology in the world.

[Seedling]

I see you are a proponent of recycling, Kev.

[kev ferrara]

The truth must be set free!!

[mambo]

The fact is, Manga was an Axis creation during World War II. Hitler and Goering were looking for a way to spread the Nazi message in a more populist form and both being great fans of Disney (believe it or not) they engaged their culture ministry to obtain some cartoon artists in germany to create a popular style to use in propaganda posters. The German artists failed to live up to Hitler's wishes (Hitler having been an artist himself) so Hitler essentially outsourced the creation of these propaganda cartoons to Japan. Hirohito was glad to oblige, formed a huge studio of Japans best cartoonists, and this is why Manga came out of Japan.

Quite a bit of early Manga had hidden swastikas in the hair of the characters as secret code demonstrating its origin. Of course very few nowadays know the origins of Manga, so many draw the hair without the swastikas.

One of the reasons so few know about the origins of manga is because the main studio producing the propaganda was destroyed in the first atomic bomb blast. (It was right near the Nissan steel plant, which produced war material and had not yet started making cars, which I think first happened in the late 1950s or early 60s)

Anyhow, before anybody defends Manga too strongly, you should know its origins in Nazi propaganda. Its design was strictly for the purposes of fooling the unwitting. Unfortunately, it has found some degree of success lately, which I think demonstrates the resurgence of a certain ideology in the world.

Hmmm.... I don't know that it makes sense to hold any link to Nazi propaganda against modern day incarnations of manga. Japanese culture has always been willing to mix words with pictures to form a graphical narrative. Modern manga has really nothing to do with the Nazi ideology despite it's roots as a propaganda tool. The Mitsubishi corporation was part of the Japanese war machine - producing fighter planes for Japan (the famous Japanese 'zero' fighter)... but Mitsubishi of today certainly has no links to a Nazi ideology. Why would manga be any different?

It sounds as if you're trying to draw some sort of link between manga fans being unwitting Nazis. lol.

[kev ferrara]

mambo, you're missing the point. Manga is still effective as a tool for corrupting minds, just as it was intended. It is not devoid of all nazi content.

Just think about how racially similar all the charcters are, same eyes, same nose, same hair, etc... Its amazingly generic, just like the eugenics projects of the Nazis.

That's the problem with it. The message lives on in the style.

[Elwell]

Kev, I'm sure these folks would be interested in your information.

[mambo]

mambo, you're missing the point. Manga is still effective as a tool for corrupting minds, just as it was intended. It is not devoid of all nazi content.

Just think about how racially similar all the charcters are, same eyes, same nose, same hair, etc... Its amazingly generic, just like the eugenics projects of the Nazis.

That's the problem with it. The message lives on in the style.

I must have missed that point... because it's absolutely absurd.

To attempt to draw some sort of connection between manga and eugenics based on stylistic interpretations of the human form is just plain silly. There isn't anymore a Nazi/Eugenics message in Manga than there is in the classic Warner Bros. cartoons or any other form of visual narrative.

It's certainly not shocking that there is a completely homogeneous style with Manga... it comes from Japan after all. Arguably one of the most homogeneous cultures on earth.

I'm sure I'll be sorry for asking... (lol) but:

1) Who exactly is behind this dastardly plan to corrupt the minds of youth?

2) Why would they be corrupting them and to what end?

3) How can I get in on it? Put me down for the corruption of 16 year old cheerleaders with 36DD breasts.

4) Do they have a secret manga-nazi handshake?

It all sounds so ridiculous. Please tell me you're not going to make Astro Boy out to be a nazi.

[kev ferrara]

If you don't understand that the creation of a generic set of facial characteristics is directly tied to the Nazi ideology of racial purity, then I really can't help you.

Maybe you look like a Manga character already, so it doesn't bother you. But where does that leave everybody else?

And if you think Manga is only about surface level sci-fi fun, maybe you should look at it at a deeper level. Understand, the leading Nazi were all "losers" too, who wanted power as revenge against the more successful members of society. Think about how many losers are into Manga. There's a reason they're attracted to it.

This is classic under-the-radar propaganda. Those who are already indoctrinated will not be able to see it.

[mambo]

If you don't understand that the creation of a generic set of facial characteristics is directly tied to the Nazi ideology of racial purity, then I really can't help you.

Maybe you look like a Manga character already, so it doesn't bother you. But where does that leave everybody else?

And if you think Manga is only about surface level sci-fi fun, maybe you should look at it at a deeper level. Understand, the leading Nazi were all "losers" too, who wanted power as revenge against the more successful members of society. Think about how many losers are into Manga. There's a reason they're attracted to it.

This is classic under-the-radar propaganda. Those who are already indoctrinated will not be able to see it.

errm... you still haven't shown how these nazis that apparently run the manga world from behind the scenes manage to control and orchestrate the thousands of manga artists out there. Mind control? Have they saved Hitlers brain and are using it to transmit signals to manga artists and readers everywhere?!?!

Surely a free market economy would be the dictating factor (lol - no pun intended) in the manga production of today... not some secret Nazi society out to corrupt the youth of today.

Seriously all this talk of under the radar propaganda... by who? To what end? What is their master plan? If their master plan is to get 16 year old males and 30 year paedophiles to rabidly jerk off to tentacle rape comics... then maybe you're right. Damn... they do have Hitlers brain!!! lol.

Since when were Nazis about tentacle rape of doe-eyed cartoon females?!!

I'd be curious how much you actually follow manga since your reference point was sci-fi fun. A very large portion of manga has nothing to do with sci-fi at all.

For what it's worth I'm not really even a manga fan... I just find that your post is completely and utterly silly. It's got about a much relevance to manga as chalk does to cheese. It's just one massive non sequiter.

mambo

[kev ferrara]

Propaganda is not "active measures". It is by nature "under the radar". If people know its propaganda, it doesn't work.

The people behind the manga phenomenon are the corporate hegemony, which is borderless and worldwide. If you study such things as how the Nazi empire was financed, you come across such companies as IG Farben and Thiessen Krupp. And when you see how they are tied in with the global economy you can see their influence.

And of course a dumbed-down consumer is always good for business. And if people seek to be homogeneous, much less variety of product needs to be produced, which of course saves factory expenses... You don't need to change the mold, just keep stamping out the same stuff. The same toys, the same television shows, the whole thing is about speedy broadcast of this "be generic" ideology. And the international banking cartels and their subsidiary corporations easily retain power, if all everybody seeks to do is conform.

The whole thing gets very complicated. But conformism to a fantasy racial purity that also happens to be childlike (indoctrinating the people into infantilism and helplessness) is very much the whole idea.

Don't keep the people down... have the people keep themselves down. Simple.

[Anid Maro]

ZOMG the Nazis have a secret agenda to corrupt the minds of our youth with Anime!!1!

*Respond in seriousness*

I'd like to inform you good sirs and ladies that perhaps a thread which:

1. Features a Japanese man screwing an Anime pillow.
2. Links to a poorly written article from the drama-queens at DA which happens to exhibit one of the lamest strawman arguments I've seen in quite a while.
3. Was blatantly Godwined on post #12.

... is in all likelihood, not deserving of serious discussion in any way shape or form.

Now without further adieu, feel free to continue with this ludicrous thread for my amusement.

*popcorn*

[Lotet]

i havnt red the article or any post yet so pardon me if im saying anything stupid, i will come back and post again when ive red the artcle


but i got really angry by the term "anti-anime artist" thats just...stupid, its like the guy reffer to anime as the real art and "the rest" is just people who DONT draw anime"

[kev ferrara]

Godwin was a part of a CIA psy-ops operation on usenet, in case you didn't know. (Sometimnes this info makes it to his wikipedia entry, but is very quickly deleted.)

In fact he was the first person to coin the term "Mangacist" for someone who is against Manga (aka Anti-Manga). Which is a classic counter-counter-propaganda effort.

Being called a Mangacist is the equivalent of being called an Imperial Stooge of Capitalist Oppressors (or something like that). I think calling a spade a spade is fine, as long as its true. To understand the nazi origins of Manga is not to invoke the so-called Godwin's law (see Case's Corollary... certain topics naturally lead to Nazi comparisons and item two in section two, which discusses invoking nazi comparisons when actually speaking about nazis, as in the case of the origins of manga)

[Lotet]

ok, ive red everything now, adn KEV...ur right, ive heard of this too, i understand what ur trying to say, but im not gonna argue agains of for it,


anyhow, i dunno what too say, some people are just chidish, both on the "real" artist and on the manga ppl, and we should not join the war, acording too me, its stupid to argue with those ppl, cause a lot of em are 12 yer old kids who just follow whats popular, and right now, manga IS popular, it will be gone in the wind, mark my words...atleast at the state it is now, the nerds will always be there, but u get my point, i hope xD


anyhow, i wrote a massive article on DA on it, so if u wanna read it, its on the response list on that verry link

[FlipMcgee]

The people behind the manga phenomenon are the corporate hegemony, which is borderless and worldwide. If you study such things as how the Nazi empire was financed, you come across such companies as IG Farben and Thiessen Krupp. And when you see how they are tied in with the global economy you can see their influence.

"This is the Samurai way"

[kev ferrara]

Sorry didn't mean to imply that Japanese culture isn't beautiful with a long tradition of fine appreciation. Just that WWII was an extreme circumstance that caused a slight rift that allowed Manga propaganda to slip through to infect unsuspecting citizens, now world wide.

[Anid Maro]

Being called a Mangacist is the equivalent of being called an Imperial Stooge of Capitalist Oppressors (or something like that). I think calling a spade a spade is fine, as long as its true. To understand the nazi origins of Manga is not to invoke the so-called Godwin's law (see Case's Corollary... certain topics naturally lead to Nazi comparisons and item two in section two, which discusses invoking nazi comparisons when actually speaking about nazis, as in the case of the origins of manga)

Actually, Case's Corollary states that there are certain subjects that will invariably lead to the discussion of Nazism and subsequent Godwining of the thread. Case's Corollary does not, however, exempt any of the related topics from Godwin's Law.

Godwin was a part of a CIA psy-ops operation on usenet, in case you didn't know. (Sometimnes this info makes it to his wikipedia entry, but is very quickly deleted.)

In fact he was the first person to coin the term "Mangacist" for someone who is against Manga (aka Anti-Manga). Which is a classic counter-counter-propaganda effort.

... so would that make what you're engaging in a "Counter-counter-counter-propaganda effort"?

"This is the Samurai way"

Heh, funny. And one would do well to remember that one shall not ask of the Taisho's secret personal history.

[kev ferrara]

If you want to promote racial eugenics through nazi-manga propaganda, hey, its a free country.

But you should know that manga art is intrinsically corrupt and anti-humane and promotes your own conformity to a corporate system that seeks to dominate your mind and keep you infantilized. Just keep that idea in the back of your mind as you slavishly copy the elements of manga style instead of developing your own artistic personality and gifts.

[DIMAGYAN]

this is the first time i read about nazi-manga relation.

in any case. kev ferrara ,are you refering also at the pre ww2 strips press and post tezuka comics (gekiga for example).

in my consideration manga(as we know now days) raise(or begun during the us ocupation.and change between the late 50's and the 60's . and get more comercial and a mixture between the middle of the 70's and the 80's.
but was in japan before the war in a progression since hokusai, through some small indictions in the differents periods,europe influences(specially in the press)
in the ww2 was a propaganda influence,until the us restriction.

but i can't see where the nazi "create" manga.

anyway can you put some link, or information to your arguments? i would like to read something about it.

also to be honest, the concepts you put about "loosers" and "succesful" persons is a bit blurry for me. can you explain what are yours (or the ideal) parameters? i think this is important since you make a sentence about "the new type of society" we live and the reasons of nazis and readers of this days. can you elaborate, please?