Oils..

[Pilgrim1099]

I have used Acrylic paints over the years but have never done oils out of fear because, perhaps, of allergic reactions that could possibly triggered by turpentine smell. Plus, in the last few years I've have diagnosis of asthma that occurs during the cold winter season and I do remember having a old used car that had a smelly gas leak and may have had some trouble breathing.

I'm tempted to experiment with oils, despite the fact, I use Corel Painter and am fascinated by this medium. I've used other dry and wet media as well.

My question to you is if any of you have heard any cases of oil paint/chemicals triggering asthma/allergic attacks and are there alternatives to this or ways to get around that?

The cost of oil paint also makes me wary of the budgeting and oil can be a bit intimidating to me as I'm so used to drawing by hand for 30 some odd years now.

Thanks.

[Elwell]

A low odor solvent with a high PEL like Gamsol or Turpenoid shouldn't cause any problems. If even that's too much, there are solvent-free ways of using oils. A search here will give a wealth of info.

[Bowlin]

Some 15 years ago I attempted oils and had severe allergic reactions to my hands. I've reattempted it again lately, using Rembrandt brand and haven't had any problems. I have no clue what had caused the problem in the past, just suspected it was the oil itself, but have no problems at all these days. Turpnoid and Mineral spirits weren't the source of the problem either. I had been using water-mixable oils because of this, but Elwell slapped my hand and told me "no" ... so I gave it another attempt. High quality oils is the better advice. Thanks Elwell (yet again).

[Seedling]

Yo Pilgrim! There's a link in my sig to info on oil paints for you.

[Pilgrim1099]

Thanks guys for the info! Although I'm more of a dry media/graphic/ink type of artist, oils was something I found fascination with.

To the poster about the oil reaction on the hands....I had some bad itching on both hands a few months ago and I remember using bathroom cleaners (spray form) and forgot to wear a glove..and that's how it happened..itched so bad that I could not write/draw for a while. I vowed never to touch that stuff again.
Then again, it might be the age thing.....:/. Otherwise, the Rembrandt brand or something a bit more safe with low solvent such as Gamsol is not a bad idea.

EDIT: I use chinese balls to exercise both hands and keep them from 'locking' up or tired. For me, it works well and allows me to think and improve articulation. And from that exercise, that should help me paint on longer durations without tiring. I tend to use my iPod to listen with my SkullCandy headphone and sometimes I can't hear a darn thing wearing them such as a doorbell, etc. The only advantage is that I'm deaf and can turn off the hearing aid anytime I want but I'd rather not, in order to concentrate .

[Pilgrim1099]

Yo Pilgrim! There's a link in my sig to info on oil paints for you.

umm...for some reason..the links are not working? The pages are'nt coming up.

[Seedling]

umm...for some reason..the links are not working? The pages are'nt coming up.

Try again when the server isn't being hit so hard.

[Pilgrim1099]

Try again when the server isn't being hit so hard.

okay...it's working now...

Very interesting threads so far...thanks.

[Seedling]

You're welcome.

[Pilgrim1099]

You're welcome.

I sent you a PM but was'nt sure if it works. I noticed that Mr. Schmid, an author of one book you suggested...lives in VT...oddly it's where I'm at now. I could've sworn I've seen him in person crossing paths...now that he looks familiar. lol.

-A

[k4pka]

If you have seen him, befriend that man! He is an epically good painter and teacher!! You (potentially) lucky git.

[the_allejo05]

Oils are just pigment and oil thats all..what is dangerous is when you use the poisonous pigments..especially if you are having turpentine and touching paint which your skin will absorve. Look for colors that are labeled AP (all of my colors are) and avoid Lead pigments..used turpenoid (good substitute for turpentine) Is not as dangerous as you think if you are careful and have a well ventilated place... the old masters had it tough they did not know the danger of white lead and others poisonous pigments..so you are pretty safe...
Oil is the best medium !!!!!, i you have not used it you have not paint it yet

[Pilgrim1099]

If you have seen him, befriend that man! He is an epically good painter and teacher!! You (potentially) lucky git.

I think he's still among the living. He probably lives about an hour away from the city where I frequent to art shows. I don't know him personally but *may* have seen him in person a few times in those galleries.

I'm still trying to get a copy of Alla Prima (his book) but Borders and Barnes and Noble don't carry them anymore...I don't know if his book is geared towards oils or acrylics.

I have a connection or two that might know him professionally (or personally)...I'm going to ask around and find out.

[Pilgrim1099]

Oils are just pigment and oil thats all..what is dangerous is when you use the poisonous pigments..especially if you are having turpentine and touching paint which your skin will absorve. Look for colors that are labeled AP (all of my colors are) and avoid Lead pigments..used turpenoid (good substitute for turpentine) Is not as dangerous as you think if you are careful and have a well ventilated place... the old masters had it tough they did not know the danger of white lead and others poisonous pigments..so you are pretty safe...
Oil is the best medium !!!!!, i you have not used it you have not paint it yet

Allejo..I thank you for that advice. I may have to use gloves since my hands might be more sensitive to chemical reactions by itch these days (not due to my age..and NO, I'm not getting old...art keeps me young). However, it's the possible asthmatic reaction that I'm more concerned with and I think over the years, it's that uncertainty and high expense of that medium that kept me at bay except for Acrylics.

EDIT: It should be said that I have never touched oils for real in my life, let alone having smelled and seen it in action in art school years ago. As well as other studios.

[Pilgrim1099]

Also, I forgot to mention that besides Richard Schmid's Vermont presence...another illustrator/artist named Donato Giancola (www.donatoart.com) is having an exhibition in Vermont. He's demo-ing his work in Manchester, Vt...which is far down south where I'm at...I can't make it that day due to work :/.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...=2007707200305

[Flake]

Donato is amazing, call in sick for work, tell them your dog exploded or something..

[Pilgrim1099]

Donato is amazing, call in sick for work, tell them your dog exploded or something..

Unfortunately, I think it's for today...which I did'nt know about beforehand. This article on him caught me off guard and I can't call off work. It's a long drive down there. If I knew far in advance, I would be able to :/.

I would have to sit or stand close to him to hear what he's saying, by reading lips or seeing his work in action...because sometimes I miss out on what people say..even in an audience.

[k4pka]

Schmids book teaches more about how to see than techniques with a certain medium. It is heavily biased toward oil, since that is what he mostly uses. Still, no matter what you are into, it is well worth the money. Absolute gold that book is.

[Pilgrim1099]

Schmids book teaches more about how to see than techniques with a certain medium. It is heavily biased toward oil, since that is what he mostly uses. Still, no matter what you are into, it is well worth the money. Absolute gold that book is.

I tend to assume that this book would be biased to oils as apparently evidenced on the front cover and samples. The quality is unmistakable, although his book is applicable to most brush-based media, perhaps dry (oil sticks, pastels), etc........

Hmmmmmmm....I think a light bulb just went on...what if instead of going through the risk of allergic/asthmatic reactions of turpentine...I go the route of oil sticks? I imagine the manipulation of gradients and hues would be limited to just strokes, line quality, area coverage, etc.

But I still want this book badly. I assume his publishing company Prairie Stove is still active.

[Seedling]

But I still want this book badly. I assume his publishing company Prairie Stove is still active.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.richardschmid.com/book.html

BTW, I never did get a PM from you. Click on my name to get the option to send a private message, if you need to. :-)

[Pilgrim1099]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.richardschmid.com/book.html

BTW, I never did get a PM from you. Click on my name to get the option to send a private message, if you need to. :-)

Seedling,

Yes...the link you sent me works and shows Schmid's Alla Prima: Everything I Know About Painting...in softcover format...I noticed the price and it's a lot cheaper than going on amazon. What I'm concerned is if Prairie Stove is still in business and has more copies of it. I tried to email but no replies yet.

As for the PM, I must've forgotten to do that. However the PM was about Richard and how his living in Vermont is uncanny in that he looked familiar to me. I could've sworn I saw him in person a few times up town in Burlington...I'm still waiting to hear from my other connection if she knows him locally.

And also in the PM I was asking if you are or were aware of any deaf/hearing-impaired individuals working in your field of gaming art or other creative industries? It seems as if I'm going at it alone on this as a rare exception...maybe? I know they are out there but not very publicly reported or mentioned as I've heard some stories about a few of them trying to get their voices out there as a graphic designer, painter, etc. And have gotten put down or obstructed, if you will as I have felt that there is 'something wrong in the air'...but then again I don't think that should be a big deal as I make it to be.

[Seedling]

Hi Pilgrim! I bought my copy of Alla Prima from that website just a few months ago. Between that, and all the reprints of the book, I think you’ll have no trouble getting a copy.

I don’t know of anyone in the games business who is hearing impaired, but I don’t think it would be that big a deal.

A friend and member of our design team lost most of his eyesight recently. Due to a combination of health and family issues he had to leave the company, but when things settle down for him he’s going to have a group of us, including his former boss, banging on his door to get him to come work with us again. He’ll get his own office and a projector if that’s what it takes!

[edit] Oh yeah; the point of that is that you'll find the right team and fit in just fine. No worries. :-)

[Pilgrim1099]

Hi Pilgrim! I bought my copy of Alla Prima from that website just a few months ago. Between that, and all the reprints of the book, I think you’ll have no trouble getting a copy.

I don’t know of anyone in the games business who is hearing impaired, but I don’t think it would be that big a deal.

A friend and member of our design team lost most of his eyesight recently. Due to a combination of health and family issues he had to leave the company, but when things settle down for him he’s going to have a group of us, including his former boss, banging on his door to get him to come work with us again. He’ll get his own office and a projector if that’s what it takes!

Re: Alla Prima...I found another source to buy a copy at...still trying to determine what to do and work out a deal. We'll see..but I'll get the book in my hands.

Re: hearing-impairment..I'm sure it's pretty much.....unheard of..but at least your co-worker is fortunate enough to work in that industry..and still have your crowd go after him and get him his own office...must be nice

[Bowlin]

Well I'm not in the game business (or any art field for that matter), but I am also severely hearing impaired (70-80 decimals). I know exactly what you mean 'something wrong in the air'. I was always up front when in interviews for graphic design about my hearing impairment. Annnd it's not a good idea. heh. You have to be veryyy crafty about it. It can give the wrong impression, but approach it like any other socialization meeting for the first time (which is extra hard for us, I know).

[Pilgrim1099]

Bowlin, I did'nt know you have a hearing-impairment. Mine's on the severe level...actually..the left side is severe while the right side is profound. But when I take off the hearing-aid...I hear nothing.

It's like silence in the monastery.

You're right that it's not practical to mention it firsthand before the interview, but once I go to the interview, it's actually my responsibility to let them know that I'm 'hard of hearing' and that I read lips.
I've heard some stories through the internet on some deaf creatives who were not accomodated for and got put down in the industry which...angers me.
And I asked myself...how can a graphic design or creative firm being hired and contracted to SOLVE a COMMUNICATIVE problem for the client visually if they themselves CANNOT do the same for those in-house? Are they constantly afraid of hiring people like us and assume that not being able to hear renders us unable to interpret popular culture towards a visual solution?


For some reason, it reeks of hypocrisy and arrogance.

The problem is most creative agencies, if I'm not mistakenly perceiving this, act as if they're M-TV trying to do what's "cool" when it should be on what "works" on a functional and aesthetic level.

I don't know what's going on, but for years I've sensed that something is disjointed out there. I went to art shows and galleries..such as 1300 Gallery in Cleveland (I know Derek Hess)..and interact with those people..and I know some Indie comic people (I've gone to cons and have done some underground comics illustration and shared a table with Angry Dog Press back then).

And I would look around and ask myself, "Wait a minute...am I the ONLY deaf creative doing this? I don't see any deaf or hearing-impaired people at art shows/parties/comic cons.....what is going on here?".

And it turns out there is a possible cultural suppression (underneath the surface) of those people who may have tried to break into the creative industry, but it's very, very, very rare and definitely not on the radar doing mainstream gigs.
But, on the other hand, I was the creative geek/outcast back in high school and was light years ahead of the deaf community when it came to manga/anime, comics, literature, etc. I was mainstreamed big time and that gave me a huge advantage over the others in communicating and thinking abstractly.

Unfortunately, the stigma and ignorance pi$$es me off to no end.

EDIT: By the way, when I tried to get a job as an entry level production artist for a local company in Vermont that designs graphical imagery and other relief logos for buttons and pins....they put me in the dark for more than a week and hired someone else. The art director LIKED my portfolio and said my skill level was just what they were looking for.
But they did'nt hire me.
What he said was very hypocritical and I could 'smell' B S coming from him a mile away.
That job was perfect for me, despite the fact I was 30-40 minutes away from their firm distance wise. They used Mac OS X exclusively with Adobe Illustrator's vector format. And I know how to use it.

I really think that some employers are afraid of us because we're not so easily BS-ed and can SEE through them like glass without utilizing our ears.

[Pilgrim1099]

EDIT part 2: And I'm still trying to figure out my niche market after having coming out of homelessness and got my own place. In a way, starting over from scratch is nice but is also a pain in the a$$.

[Seedling]

Woah, hold up there Pilgrim. It sounds like you’ve heard some stories from some hearing-impaired folks who have had a rough time of it, but don’t let a few peoples’ bad experiences build a whole world-view for you until you’ve experienced it for yourself.

You need to get over being rejected from a single job before the experience spoils more prospective jobs for you. People get strung along for *months* when applying for jobs. One week of encouraging phone calls followed by silence is normal. Applying for many jobs and getting no results is normal. Being on the outside and waiting to hear back from a company, you don’t get to see the turmoil of other applicants, internal politics, and shifting staff needs and budgets.

You already know that when applying for a job, something you will specifically have to do in your interview is to help the people interviewing you get over their shyness and nervousness about talking to you. They are your future teammates, so they need to know that they can communicate with you without fear of offending you. But to add to that, if you go into an interview having a grudge against your interviewers, they’ll know, even if just on a gut level, and they will fear having to work with you because of that grudge. And if they fear working with you, of course they won’t hire you.

While it might make sense to expect to see more deaf folks in visual fields of work, your expectation doesn’t mean an absence of deaf people is evidence of hypocrisy or arrogance or anything else funny going on. It could well be that the ratio of deaf people to everybody else is the same in the visual arts as it is in the overall population, and you just haven’t run into another needle in the haystack yet.

[Bowlin]

Heh, seedling... I do feel I know what he's going through. I didn't tell them really quite up front during an interview, just tried to ease it in there. I went job searching for 2 years! Constantly. And I completely understand that being hearing impaired just dominates a lot of your thoughts. dsillustration (Dan Dos Santos) is completely deaf in one ear, but apparently good in the other. But I'd trade my two bad ears for one good one in a heart-beat. Having two bad ears is extremely hard to socialize because people can't see any apparent problem. I get along understanding people one on one so well that a lot of people find it hard to believe I'm hearing impaired at all. But when first meeting people it's extremelyyyy difficult. And in a group setting? forget it! It all becomes muffled. I went to New York a couple of times for the Art Out Loud and it really bothered me sincerely not being able to join in with the rest of them when we all went out to eat. I just had to sit there and pretend to listen and understand... and smile . boo hoo... heh

But let me get one thing straight and I'm not trying to tick you off... but being hearing impaired should make you a better artist? That's just utter bull****, at least in dealing with the technical aspects of drawing. And I really don't see the real advantage in developing ideas and composition. It's level playing field. It's the business side that would hurt if anything. And a cultural suppression? Naw, I think it's just stereotype... deaf and dumb. People just don't know what to make of you and are culturally conditioned to treat you as "special".

(man, I'm just ranting away, aren't I? )

In an interview your not suppose to say anything negative, that just gives them a reason not to hire you. ("Uh yeah, I'm proficient in Photoshop and Painter and I'm mentally retarded" might as well say that )

But yeah, I've had similar experiences. Aboslutely perfect for the job, he's constantly telling me he sees no reason I shouldn't get hired, have to come back to a second interview. I tell him, oh, one more thing, I'm hearing impaired but it wouldn't interfere with this job at all (after I had him tell me in detail how the job was handled exactly. It was doing illustration for rugs, carpets, beadspreads, that sort of thing). So I go to the second interview and he tells me right off the bat he's afraid he can't hire me. He was completely embarrassed, just long pauses trying to find the right words, and couldn't give me an excuse.... at all. "i'm sorry, we just can't use you". So for a career in illustration, I firmly believe, if you have a professional portfolio, you can make it just like anybody else. Again, level playing ground for anyone deaf.

Being hearing impaired brings up a LOT of personal problems, but a lot of it is self inflicted fear. And it's not something you can just "get over"... if your like me, and was a birth defect, your just conditioned into these fears. There's a lot of anger and resentment, but I know if I was born with average hearing I'd be the same exact way toward the hearing impaired.

I'd say the deaf ratio proably is average. And there is a lot of people that will see this as an opurtunity to take advantage to make themselves look better by making fun of you or whatever. But that's something most people have to learn to deal with. It's hard to realize that we aren't that much different from the average. How your treated in life depends on how well you can socialize, how others see you. You believe others can't see you, how you see your self... but I believe they can. Sometimes it's really hard to see your own fears, to realize them, because it's so natural to you.

I believe because of how the public usually view artist as something kind of "special talent"... a lot of people strive for it simply hoping for the respect it'll bring. This is pretty much why most people do what they do, isn't it? A cop, teacher, moving up in the company... it's usually not so much the money, but the respect they hope it'll bring. People try to do jobs for respect from their father and so on and so on. I think for someone deaf it's extremely hard to find a place to fit in that art though will allow us to challenge our way in with as much respect as anyone else. If there's any advantage a deaf person has in art, it's because they've had a lifetime of learning to analyze everything very analytically (yeah, I believe a deaf person can read a person's body language better, like seeing B.S.... Help in terms of art? I'm not convinced of that). But that's my problem, it's made me over analyze.

[Pilgrim1099]

Seedling,

Sometimes it's frustrating, especially when I wonder about what's going on. Sometimes it's just hard seeing that absence of deaf creatives around here or not seeing that aspect 'above the radar'. I'm sure the ratio analogy is similar to deaf people to the mainstreamed comparable to those creatives trying to break into the industry...

I like what I do and want to be heard. To contribute and to entertain. But it is very interesting on one hand that an old hearing-impaired friend of mine living in Vegas is doing CAD-based work on his own now after having worked in-house at another agency for years.
Vegas must be nice over there.....but the heat is not my cup of tea....


EDIT: To Bowlin. I was born with it...as a congenital defect. And no, I'm not saying that being deaf helps the art BUT our senses do become heightened with analytic ability...and probably more. Keep in mind, that deaf people's capacity for grammar may not be so good while on the other, very proficient in mathematics. While on the flip side, there are those of us who cannot count for $hit or calculate in our heads but have a high level of writing, creative thinking, abstract problem solving, et cetera.
I grew up in that sub-culture and have seen ALL kinds of deaf people.
I'm used to being deaf and yes, socially challenging...absolutely.

And I can only hear on one side with my hearing-aid and use a Blackberry (those phones are a godsend....seriously).

EDIT II: And another thing, please understand that this website is one of the few places I can find to find common ground and have support...peer to peer, that is. I don't see a lot of that around here where I live :/.

[Seedling]

I’ve been wracking my brain trying to remember who I know who is deaf in one ear. I finally remembered – two people. One was a game designer who used to work here, and the other was one of my professors at RISD. The funny thing is that I never thought of either one as being hearing-impaired. They each just mentioned casually that “if it looks like I’m ignoring you, I’m not; I just can’t hear out of this ear”; and after that it was a non-issue.

I know you guys have got it tough; just don’t let it turn you bitter, because that bitterness will be yet another thing in your way.

About going to an interview. . . if you know that communication during the interview is going to be at all tricky, I recommend letting the interviewer know in advance what to expect. An unexpected difficulty during an interview is not going to go over as well as an expected difficulty.

Hey! You could start a thread in the lounge on the subject, and see if there aren’t any other artists around here in similar situations. I would keep yakking but I’ve shirked my duties enough. . .