Last edited by ballpointpenart; June 25th, 2005 at 05:52 PM. Reason: My drawing isn't showing up
that link doesnt work dude.
Great work, I'ver tried this medium myself. I was shown many years ago by a guy who drew comic strips for Penthouse. I love byros. I have found the BIC disposaple ones best and like you prefer blue to black.
I dont know your work, but have you ever used them for sketching? I'd be interested in seeing if you had?
There is a fluidity in strokes made with a ball point. The larger green green (sorry I cant remember the make)have a broader ball that allows for a gental offstroke unobtainable with most other media.
It looks to me like your drawing is large. and reproduced here in a smaller format.This is a bit of a cop-out as the marks cannot be clearly seen to be judged. It's not a very original image either so I cann't comment on your skill as a picture maker. Full credit for that goes to the person who took the photograph you used. I trust he will recive at least a credit.
Brutal crits for today,
regrets for tomorrow
Greetings ConceptArt forum, My Name is Jerry Stith an Iím the founder of a new American Folk Art program referred to as Ball Point Pen Art, BallPoint Pen Art or Ballpointpenart here on the Internet. Iíve been drawing with a ballpoint pen from the year 1968 and have been on the Internet for the past five years.
This drawing was completed with a blue extra-fine tip that was discontinued on the market in about 1982. The ballpoint pen is the only pen system capable of producing a half tone line in history. The ballpoint pen can produce a half tone line because of its oil-based inks that no other pen system provides. The inventor of the ballpoint pen was Mr. John J. Load a citizen of the United States, residing at Weymonth, in the county of Norfolk and Common Wealth of Massachusetts, patented the first ballpoint pen. That means the ballpoint pen is an American heritage an enjoyed worldwide today. My new American Folk Art program is based on the ballpoint pen invented by John J. Load. Mr. J. J. Loud patented the ballpoint pen first on Oct. 30, 1888, registration No. 392,046.
This is my first ballpoint pen drawing posted with this forum. Iím pleased to be part of this wonderful forum and certainly hope those out there appreciate this form of artwork. The Biro brothers commercialized the ballpoint pen in 1938 and today is one of the worlds most sold items. Billions of ballpoint pens are sold annually therefore many people make up our great art movement.
Drawings completed with a ballpoint pen are popular yet havenít been presented to the world as a major art movement or medium. You can visit most major galleries or museums around the world and see theyíre not being displayed within those locations. Nor, are leading art magazines or journals throughout the lands publishing ballpoint pen drawings. Thatís why Iíve established a new American BallPoint Pen Folk art program plus build my sites or slide shows here on this Internet.
I hope the artists and visitors to this forum enjoy seeing what our medium can do. Iím very pleased to be with this site and take my hat off to all the great artists or people within this location. May, you all have a great day and hopefully this drawing Iím presenting will help that become so.
exactly how archival is the ink in a ballpoint pen, anyway?
o snaps! bringing back the ball point.
check out a zebra f402 it can do halftones well if you have the dexterity. nicely handled drawings.
LOTR, Halo, Heroes Sketchcards from Topps
Archiving art history and archived mediums
Artists that donít use a ballpoint pen often ask that same question as if that actually means something to the general public. Iíve lived in forty different cites or towns and know that most people donít even know what that is and for the most part could careless.
Next, unless youíre a state, national or international artist or selling your art for tens or hundreds of thousands (dollars) such a things means little as well, what do you think? Its seems to me that non ballpoint pen artists are more interested in that topic than we actually are! No, is your answer. Iíve never found any information indicating that pen companies care enough about their product to produce archived inks! Which means pen companies arenít interested in producing high quality inks.
Billions of ballpoint pens are sold annually which clearly indicates that isnít a problem or concern of our worldwide public. Iíve also never heard any International reports indicating that documents throughout history have faded signed with a ballpoint pen. Billions of contracts, documents, reports or letters have been written or signed with a ballpoint pen from 1938 and nothing indicates fading is a problem. If that were a problem International sales wouldnít be increasing every year as well. Do you have proof of this being a problem Internationally?
I have ballpoint pen drawings that are thirty-seven years old and find fading isnít happening with them. Paper problems are more of an issue than fading inks. However, I thank you for showing interest in this matter. Now, Iím going to ask you something.
If youíre using an archived art medium or material what does that do for you? Does that place you in National or International art history? Does that make your art worth a hundred thousand dollars? Archived art materials or mediums mean a lot more once a person hits the big leagues. Most artists never become recognized on a state or national level yet alone Internationally. Unknown artists that worry about this situation are tripping. Many artists are a legion in their own mind, yet dies with little if any recognition!
I used my brain to deal with this situation. I went out and produced a new American Folk art program called Ball Point Pen Art, BallPoint Pen Art or Ballpoint Pen Art. Today, that program is published worldwide on this Internet for the past five plus years. That means Iím recorded or archived in art history as well as my ballpoint pen drawings. Many forms of art have been recorded in history and after that the original got destroyed or damaged in a war or fire. However the history books, ect. still have that image documented. (Ice sculptures, sand castles, vases, ect.)
My ballpoint pen drawings are recorded or archived in art history because they represent a new art medium, movement or American Folk art program. My digital image, slides, prints or other copies arenít going to fade or become changed even if the originals do. That means art production can be completed with or without an original. (Bootleggers or forgers donít use originals do they?) If I have a destroyed drawing and keep a slide or digital copy of it production of that image can still be done.
Archived art materials are important if your work becomes investment worthy. Most artists works arenít investment worthy, never become nationally or internationally recognized nor ever get sold. Low-leveled artists worrying about archived art materials are just playing a game within their own mind. Theyíre worrying about something that never will effect them much in the long range. Iím much more interested in being archived as the founder of a new American Folk art program than an un-known artist with an archived medium, what do you think of that?
I hope this will point out my stance on archived mediums and archived art history making.
BallPoint Pen Art
I honestly dont see why the medium is such a big deal. Post your art and if its great people will want to know the medium. If they dont ask then the medium must not attract that much interest. I not saying I dont like ballpoint pen art but what I am saying is that I dont care if it is ballpointpen or not, if its good and achieves something different I'll be interested in what medium it is.
As for your pictures, watch the out for the placement of the the eyes and mouths, the rendering is nice.
well at least you answered my question well enough, but the second part of you answer kinda irks me... basically you're say that since you're a "movement" and that the pure novelty of using a ballpoint pen is enough to grant you a place in history, it means you dont have to worry if your art itself is going to last a long time.. Its true that most artists dont become famous, but the attitude you have doesnt seem to help you much, you sound like you're content to be some fringe group and that no one in it has any aspirations of becoming a collectible artist on the strength of their work.. THATS what bothers me..
dns2k, Iíve been drawing with a ballpoint pen for the past thirty-seven years. I have about three hundred ballpoint pens sitting on my desktop at this time and none of those are a Zebra. Iíve been on the Internet for five plus years and have more ballpoint pen drawings, colors or tip sizes displayed in my art than any others do at this time. All ballpoint pens are capable of doing a half tone line. Inexpensive pens can produce a half tone line just like the more costly ones. All of my colored pens are inexpensive. Expensive pens simply donít arrive on the market place with multi-colored inks. Black ballpoint pen inks last longer because they have carbon in them.
The extra-fine ballpoint pen tips can produce the subtlest camera-ready line in art history. The ballpointís oil based inks are the only pens in history that can produce a half tone line. Extra-fine ballpoint pen tips were removed from the market in about 1981-82. That tip was to sharpest on the market and most likely got removed through a lack of sales. The ballpoint pen companies are now pushing water based pen systems. They run out or dry out quicker than a ballpoint and most likely cost less to manufacture. Pen companies seem to be more interested in profits than quality. Pen companies donít seem to have artists in mine because they donít follow the art world or realize what they can do in that department.
Ball Point Pen Art
do you know of any good pens that weren't discontinued when i was born 22 almost 23 years ago? i personally prefer the zebra line and the hitec but if you know something better than those please share. the gel lines are supposed to put a stop to the pens running dry mid pen what do you think about those lines?
oh and in my opinion quality of the work makes the artist, not the medium... just ask that blood painter guy and look at the feedback he got.
LOTR, Halo, Heroes Sketchcards from Topps
The reason they dont care about artists needs is because the ballpointpen wasn't created for drawing, it was created for writing. The fact that it can be used for art is just another benifit, its certainly never going to be their bread and butter.
Anyway, whats wrong with pencils ?
Sir, I have more sites, side shows, drawings, colors and tip sizes on the Internet than all other ballpoint pen artists do. Maybe thatís because I know what Iím doing! Iím a portrait artist and have worked in the public for over thirty years and communicated with countless thousands of people within that time frame. That topic and other things have been talked about over those years, especially here on the Web. Therefore, Iíve thought out that issue many times as a ballpoint pen artist from 1968.
I realize archived art mediums are important... I also know the pen companies are negligent in the archiving ink their ink departments. Educating them is a duty I need to under take or address in the days to come. If you look up the Colored Pencil Society, youíll see they had that problem and after ten years the ladies running the society got the problem solved.
I have to go now, yet will return later.
Colouring pencils where originally made for artists though.
As far as I concerned the ballpoint pen isnt that significant, pens and ink have been used for decades in art, the ballpoint pen is just a pen, its like saying that a certain type of paint brush deserves a lot of attention. What your trying to achieve makes no sense to me. Other than have your name going down in history, which is a bit egotistical.
i agree, i've used ballpoint, and quite frankly it's my favorite medium to sketch with and otherwise, however I don't think it's incredibly revolutionary on its own, these drawings are very well done, but don't really do much for me content wise. in fact, a lot of them look quite dead, in regards to the pose and the strict stroke decisions, especially when doing the figure/portraits such exact strokes leave me uninterested and cold.Originally Posted by Tobin
im having trouble gettting excited about this "movement" .
Wow, these are almost photo realistic, but on the mother theressa, the wrinkles go far into her nose on the left side.
You certainly know your stuff on Ballpoint Pens! Messrs. Load and Biro would be proud of you. Some questions... I love the smell of ballpoint ink when you scribble and scribble on a post-it note for ages and ages - can you get high on the fumes ? Why the hell to ballpoint pens always burst if you keep them in your pocket...this is the 21st century!! Can the experts not solve this problem?! And what are those little pinched indentations for a little way down from the top of the flexible ink container?
I also didn't know ballpoints came in so many colours. Nice work sir...let none of these naysayers deflect you from your chosen path of inkyness! May your ballpoints always run clean and never gloop on you.
When will the users of this message board start a movement to show solidarity for Wacom Tablets And Pens?? Wacom users of the world!! Rattle your styli in a show of inkless and paperless force!
>>> My Sketchbook of Mystery<<<
"Originality oozing out of every pore... I don't know how...CA.org has made it this far without you...I...bow before the utter magnificence of your omnipotent concept and rendering skills and peerless singularity of thought." - Helzon (RIP dude)
New art medium? I think not, as it's been around for many, MANY years. Sure, it's used more for quick little doodle and sketches, or for it's intended purpose of writing, but I fail to see how this is in any way a "revolutionary" or "new" art form. Now down to the art itself...
What I'm seeing here is a lot of technical skills, and good ones at that, but not anything in the way of composition, vision, or emotion. As someone else has already said, they feel cold and lifeless, I have a hard time conecting with the pieces. They are rendered very well, but there are a few anatomy issues. The most common thing I'm seeing is the placement of facial features. Many of the eyes are crooked or unevenly spaced from the noses, and a few (Mother Teresa especially) have very odd wrinkles in their faces. For instance, she has a lot of deep wrinkles on the left side of her face, yet hardly any on the right, and her expression is a perfectly straight smile.
Ball point is one of the nicest mediums around. The thing it teaches most is discipline where a pencil does not. not that its better just different. There's much to be learned from using ballpoint if you've never seriously used it.
Last edited by Duck Butter; June 30th, 2005 at 12:54 AM.
i'm also a big fan of drawing with a blue ball point pen. don't want to hijack your thread with my own images, so here's a link to a ball point pen still life drawing of mine.
hope you like it.
Still Life in Blue
Hey dog. . . . did you see the size of that chicken?!
Jerry, your drawings are very clean, precise, and impressive. We are all here to learn and to get recognition from our peers, as well as to critique other artists and absorb their information. Right now your thread is like an infomercial. I don't think that anyone is going to debate your "standing" in the world of ballpoint pen draftsmenship, you are clearly quite accomplished. The point is that the work should be it's own salesmen-- at least here in the utopian world of forums where we aren't buying anything, and when Loop asked a question about the archival nature of pens, he's asking for information from someone who will likely know. Your answer is basically that you don't think "archival" is a valid concern. And the infomercial way you present that is pretty good evidence that you realize in the eyes of art history, and serious artists and patrons, it is. If you were a builder and discovered an often over looked building material, and trained yourself extensively to have it look and feel like a stone structure--you would have a responsibility to your patron to explain whether or not it is going to last-- and then it is their deciscion if that is important or not.
Accepting that the builder analogy has its flaws, I do believe that artists are tradesmen who have the same responisbility to their customers as any trade. A better answer to Loops question is "No, they are not archival." As for the revolutionary nature of a ballpoint pen--it is a unique medium, but it's limitations are arbitrary boundries that an artist is placing around his representation, and thus, gimmicky. If you are indeed going for realism there are many other mediums more suited to accomplish this--but what you are doing is showing that you can use a tool with a great deal of limitations and, when at your best, make look like something more. There is a lot of novelty to that. But it's not revolutionary. I'm sure that the reading public here would love to see your tips or techniques and perhaps that would be a more appropriate way to promote a tool that you have a passion for.
I find ball point pens useful for sketching, and abundantly available. But that isn't news. Now, some words on how you achieve the subtle fleshtones with this things, unless of course you are using the craft pens with 16 colors like peach and lime green, then I suppose it's explained itself.
As for being remembered as the new american folk art founder... I was once the president of the pen 15 club, the ohio elementry school chapter. Ives Kline will be remembered for dipping women in blue paint and dragging them around a canvas, Andres Sorano will be remembered for pissing in a jar with a plastic jesus and taking a photograph, Damien Hirst cuts livestock in half, Dechamp turned a urinal sideways, and not to begin with the representational artists who's skill dictates their legacy... sir I think you and I are going to have to be a bit more "revolutionary" if we truly are planning on being remembered. What do you think about that?
Drawing is a language with infinite dialects.
I just left town to deal with a family matter and will prepare a statement pertaining to posted messages. I see people are ignorant of certain realities because false information is being posted. Which means some are talking about things they can't support with actual facts. Mis-information or ignorance seems to be common here on the Web.
BallPoint Pen Art site
I definitely think that ball point pen is a valid art medium, Jerry. And it is very cool that you started a New American Folk Ball Point Pen program. On the other hand I just feel you are here to talk yourself up. That is great that you have the most tips/ pens used and displayed on the net ever but that is not something I am personally impressed by.
Sure, this forum can be utilized for promotion but it is best for getting critiques and comments on your work. Learning from each other and Improving as artists is what we all come here for.
On that note, I looked at your website and you have some good drawings on there. The first drawing posted in this thread is IMO your best piece yet. The crispness of line and variety of light and dark is technically sound. As mentioned sometimes the eyes are off or the nose is slightly askiew in your drawings.
I have drawn many a picture with ballpoint pen and believe it is a great way to draw. I do use many other mediums in my work also. Keep posting...
Last edited by ArtisticSchmidt; June 29th, 2005 at 12:04 PM.
J. Christopher Schmidt
Comic Book Artist / Illustrator
while i wait for a statement...
buck futter... nice image... i agree there is a a lot to be learned from a ball point pen. i have been using one exclusively for drawing for the past year or so. it teaches line confidence which many of us dont have when we are learning with a pencil. it also improves dexterity imensely.
but i personally dont believe that i need a pen from before i was born to be considered a ballpointpenartist latching on to one medium is a common thing artists do... it is like a security blanket. but saying its the end all be all i cant agree. concerning the movement of ball point pen aficionados 'go for it!' storm the white house waving your BIC and saying it is the best art medium. but when all is said and done... you'll be taken away by the secret service like any other loony. this thread has gotten out of hand this thread is in the finally finished section meaning he was showing artwork to be reviewed. but really has just been posting 'statements' of the revolutionary nature of ball point pens. the new game battlefield 2 is revolutionary ball point pens are common place.
member of the PEN 15 san diego chapter (man the stories of us with our PEN in hand after school.)
LOTR, Halo, Heroes Sketchcards from Topps
Iíve posted some ballpoint pen drawings with this forum to be reviewed, critiqued or appreciated for those interested. I also posted several statements pertaining to the medium Iím using which explains my interest in the art world.
Before those images or statements got posted I produced thirteen different slide shows or sites on a World Wide Web so the 750 million people out there could see something new in our art world. My sites have been submitted to many search engines so those people surfing from around this world could enjoy what others and I do with a ballpoint pen.
Which means the five plus years it took was spent to introduce or promote our medium or programs. Thatís what Iíve done to promote what I do. The Internet has hundreds of millions of people surfing it and those are the folks my promotional department focused on in order to get that job done.
Some of you people replying have strong statements against my actions, art, presentation or introduction. Which is fine with me. Iíve been drawing or displaying my art in the public for 37 years and have heard thousands of remarks, statements or compliments throughout those years. The vast majority of those remarks were very favorable or flattering unlike those presented here.
Those people complaining the most are making statements that simply arenít true or totally different from my views. In order for me to present my side of the coin, facts, stats or materials need to be presented. If youíre attacking me and then call my reply a promotional format then let it be. If you donít want me to explain my side of it or post a rebuttal then why even have a forum or message board?
If ballpoint pen art isnít new, then explain to me why most major publishers, magazines, journals, sites, museums, galleries, organizations, institutions or groups have little to nothing displayed pertaining to our wonderful medium. Some of you say ballpoint pen art isnít new, yet canít provide any facts, figures, stats or proof demonstrating were our drawings are displayed throughout society. If there arenít any places displaying, publishing or promoting ballpoint pen drawings then logic clearly demonstrates its undeveloped, unworthy or just plain new.
Our art medium has been in the hands of artists for some time. However, our medium or movement is so new it hasnít made it into the mainstream market place or institutions around the world. New is a relative term! Most people in the world have never even heard of ballpoint pen art or seen any good pictures completed with one. Most museums, galleries or institutions havenít ever displayed anything drawing with our medium as well.
Yet, you say weíre not new. I therefore canít support or get behind your statements. I also donít care if you like our medium, drawings or statements yet respect your right to express yourself. If you donít understand my position, words or train of thought thatís cool. If you support lode, discussing or ridiculous actions and want to call that art or compare it to my drawings thatís ok also.
Iím personally interested in those already drawing with a ballpoint pen. Iím not here to convert people or to battle it out with a few yahoooís. If you dislike our medium or my picture simply find a tread that you like. If you have drawings of your own do the same thing. If you think my art is so terrible draw me a portrait that is better.
If you want to see a place that spends all their time promoting ballpoint pen art, leave this forum and visit one called BallPoint Pen Art, Ball Point Pen Art or Ballpointpenart. This forum supports many different art forms or mediums. If people have a new medium, picture or art form and they wish to present it great. If a person has a brain and wants to explain their styles, medium, movement or thinking how wonderful that is. I hope you have a great day out there folks and enjoy my drawings posted.
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