CA lose its touch?

[Izi]

Well I havn't been back for a while, although the reason I left was because of them, chiefly, also forgetting my password attached to a closed email account before that. I've been quite busy all in all with uninvited guests on top of event managing so it's not all about just trying to get away from CA. So if you have solved that issue, my apologies...I know you all do your best with the support that you have.

[Dusty]

p.s I really do believe that this site is just in a lull, we can fill the spaces that the majority of the pros left, you know, when we all become pros ourselves...we can do it! The eye of the tiger and all that...grr!

Worth noting that there *are* plenty of "pros" still on this site.
They just don't seem to be the pros that people lose their brains over - the rock stars that books and articles are written about.

One does not need to be famous to be a professional. In fact, most are not famous, but you know what? They still give advice that is just as insightful as a rock star.
So ignoring the enormous glut of talent still on this site because you aren't familiar with their name is probably not a wise move.

[AvP]

Well from time to time we get them. Donato posted on finally finished 10 days ago. One of the top Fantasy artists working today and He got 2 replies!

[Candra H]

Well from time to time we get them. Donato posted on finally finished 10 days ago. One of the top Fantasy artists working today and He got 2 replies!

I didn't know that was there. Had to go to the second page to find it. I actually spotted it over on CGhub last week and it really caught my eye so it'll be nice to be able to comment on it.

But that aside, there are plenty of threads in FF that look good, and not just by big names. Like Raoul said, there are lots of pros and excellent work on this forum and to be honest, most of the big names go over my head because I'm pretty new to this particular part of the art world. My heroes are either dead or kind of old school now. I tend to go by the work anyway. If it's good I'll appreciate it regardless of who created it.

[Nemome]

Yeah, but I think we can all agree now that it's not about old pro's being here or not.
It's actually about a few changes that the website would need.

So who actually has the rights to change things in this forum or is able to contact someone to change things?
Does Manley have to do it or are there other users with the same rights?

I mean, there is no sense in talking about changes forever. We should just try to get the thing rolling...

[Velocity Kendall]

I know a tonne of work got done behind the scenes already; Mike or Blacky, care to elaborate on that?

I think there are some guys here now that are easily as good as any from railroad times. observe! http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=226778

[Black Spot]

I have permission to move the tutorial section around a bit and we have a temporary job section. I don't know what's happening next. There were a ton of things in the pipeline, but the hack seems to have slowed it all down. It's better to be over cautious. In other news, I'm still clearing out the old spam (got over a 1000 over the weekend) and that'll take a while.

[Velocity Kendall]

what.. just.. did?.. huh?

[Nemome]

What do you mean Velocity? The deletiin of the cghub censor thread?

[Harkins]

Hi guys. I feel I need to contribute to this discussion as I've been on CA.org a while and got a great start here into my professional career.

1. It's really not that CA is worse, it's that others things popped up that are better. When MySpace came out, it was new and innovative. Facebook came in and took that idea and made it better. It's not that the community was better with Facebook or anything personal like that, it's just the site was built better and had a much more pleasant experience. To me, whatever you have to say about deviant art, they have a much better UI than this site.

2. I like simplicity. I don't even use Facebook anymore, I like twitter. You tweet quick statements and very easily scroll through people you follow and see what they have to say and be done with it. An absolutely amazing site that is the twitter of art sharing is Dribbble.com. I urge you to check it out. When I joined it was by invite only and I was lucky to have a lot of professional friends to get me in, but I believe that they said they will eventually open it up to everyone if they haven't already. Right now the only concept artists I know of that are on Dribbble are me (http://dribbble.com/harkinsart) and Noah Bradley (http://dribbble.com/noahbradley). While it's overwhelmingly a graphic design site (which I also do professionally) there are more and more illustrators popping up on that site.

3. CA feels like it was abandoned. I don't know why but around the time they started pushing TAD, I felt a massive dropoff of contributors here. Some people spoke of some 'drama'. Maybe that was it - I'm not going to speculate - but it had an effect. This site felt like it was the place to be to be up on the industry, now I constantly hear about CGhub. I personally haven't checked out CGhub yet but I plan on it.

I think that redesigning the site and really getting a pro UI/UX designer on it would get it right back up to par. Right now there's just too much stuff and a million forums. The appeal of Twitter and Dribbble for me as a busy person is how quickly I can interact with the site and see the work of my friends and people I follow.

-Bill

[Nemome]

Uhm, srsly admins.
What the hell is happening right now?
First the topic about CGHub just got deleted without any reason and now after someone created a thread, where he asked what happened to the thread, and his thread also got deleted without being mentioned before.
Seriously, don't destroy your own community and leave some statement here.
This doesn't look proffessionel!

[vices]

About the deletions of the threads about censoring links.. I have to say personally I abhor the actions of the admins. Censorship and art mix like oil and water. Worse still is censoring the discussion of the censorship.

The community here is awesome, tons of respectful amazing artists and people working hard all sharing together, it's like a utopia. I understand the admins are using their personal discretion to keep the wheels turning smoothly and perhaps in another context they would be more for open conversation. Who knows.

As it is i'm heavily debating how much my personal integrity should guide my actions. Should I leave Conceptart because I disagree with the actions of a few authority figures? Should I hope they become more confident about dissenting views after the site becomes more stable?

I'm just a nobody artist so I won't be heavily missed, and I'd lose a lot by not being a part of this community. Of course I don't want to leave.. It just sucks to know i'm willingly submitting to the whims of moral cowards.

[Izi]

As it is i'm heavily debating how much my personal integrity should guide my actions. Should I leave Conceptart because I disagree with the actions of a few authority figures? Should I hope they become more confident about dissenting views after the site becomes more stable?

They're not "authority figures", they're a business reliant on client and pro artist support. This is not a voting democracy, nor a communist state. Any web admin should have taken the same action at the inception of the site or the arrival of new rivals on the scene. It's very standardized web practice. You are still able to go to cghub and peruse everywhere, so this is not the level of censorship that people go to rallies about.

I thought about this the last day or so, and I would take the same action at a property I owned if the situation arose. We do not know anything about the back-story behind this. I have seen CG staff talking smack about CA after perusing yesterday so there's no love lost there. What CG hub did was blankly copy CA's business model as far as I can tell and continues to do so. Fuck that. If someone was trying to do that to me, I would attempt to annihilate them if they were big enough to be a threat.

Business is war, and CA is a business. There are a thousand other art sites who would love to see CA go down and take their market share.

I think it is very foolish to wish for a site you enjoy to refrain from taking all measures to ensure its own health. drawing people away from CA is far more dire than blocking hotlinks which are never necessary, since we have a bloody attachment manager.

[SmallPoly]

This is not a voting democracy, nor a communist state.
...
I think it is very foolish to wish for a site you enjoy to refrain from taking all measures to ensure its own health.

CA is not a country, but it does have a population. That population only stays as long as they like CA.

In that sense, it is in the best interest of CA to avoid pissing off it's user-base. Acknowledging the existence of other websites won't cause people to move if they're already perfectly happy with CA, and blocking links or discussions about other websites won't stop them if they're annoyed. Then it comes down to the number and quality of people that would stay or go in either scenario (blocking vs not blocking). This can't be calculated accurately without knowing how many people disapprove of it and would be likely to leave if blocking the links continue. An easy way to find out is to allow threads that are critical. Instead, I'd assume, the mods delete the thread to prevent the amount of users aware and critical of the issue from growing in number.

Deleting dissenting threads seems short-sighted. While it may initially more prevent people from seeing that a conflict exists, it can also have the effect of turning annoyed users into furious ones. More new and established users leave CA, and may even go out of their way to campaign against it.

I don't have very many complaints against CA, but I don't see this providing any significant long-term benefit. It may even cause further harm.

[Black Spot]

CA has always buttoned down on drama, and those threads were creating it. Please, no more. If you have a problem PM a mod. Not saying we can always deal with it, but we do talk to each other.

[Izi]

I don't have very many complaints against CA, but I don't see this providing any significant long-term benefit. It may even cause further harm.

There's a reason why it is a standard web practice, accepted at any web design firm. If CA is handled by outsourced help they would do this without a thought. We have no idea what the back-story is on why this occurred.

Off the top of my head I can think of a whole bunch of forums that forbid any external links. The small but quality Hindu dharma forums and the huge Mycotopia. Mycotopia forbids any outgoing links in signatures unless you are a paid member. Nobody cares and nobody will care in the future here once it is considered the norm.

This is all very standard. We are guests here who pay nothing for the privilege of browsing this vast library.

[sone_one]

I thought about this the last day or so, and I would take the same action at a property I owned if the situation arose.

maybe thats the reason noone gives a shit about the forum you run.

ca has been become popular by its inhabitants and not its primeminister... if you feel like bringing up political metaphors.

youre seriously worlds away from my perception.

for a site proclaiming that critique is a vital part of growth... the ones who run it handle it pretty badly.


[edit] and because some of you are so keen about pointing out "but this has to be paid for"... i can get a hosting deal with 20gb space and unlimited traffic for 3 eur per month. multiply that by ten...fuck multiply it by 100... dont you think the exposure TAD, massive black, the videos, etc got through this, compensate for that?
argument is welcome by me... but stop to be so fucking hypocritical.

[sone_one]

CA has always buttoned down on drama, and those threads were creating it. Please, no more. If you have a problem PM a mod. Not saying we can always deal with it, but we do talk to each other.

if the pm system would be working... like 3 months? 4? dont know dont care... after the all time advertised so to come update... id do it. [edit] turned out to be working

[Black Spot]

I answer all my PM's within 12 hours

[sone_one]

fine. im not recieving any. sent you a test pm.

[edit] turned out to be working (now). i hereby take that back .

[SmallPoly]

This is all very standard. We are guests here who pay nothing for the privilege of browsing this vast library.

Being assured something is the traditonal way isn't good enough for me. Standards change all the time, especially when the standard in question appears flawed. As long as we're talking about what big websites do, let's talk about the supposed successors to forums and usenet groups: social networks. Facebook doesn't ban links to its competitors. Neither does Google Plus, and I'd take a guess that Myspace doesn't either. AFIAK neither does Twitter, or Foursquare, or Pinterest, or Tumblr, etc.

As far as the users being guests here: That is true, but it would be foolish to assume CA gets nothing of value in return (whether that be monetary things like promoting TAD and the educational material, or more sentimental things like the feeling of making the world a better place).

Anyways, I'm fine getting back to regular website suggestions.

[JFierce]

In all honesty until someone brought it up I've been on this site for at least 7-8 years and never noticed the CGHub thing. Don't really care either way. Still doesn't really affect me. Use a URL shrinker and wala you can link. Hotlinking is a no no regardless.

I'm going to get flamed by someone for the "Doesn't affect me" comment. But honestly. It doesn't.

[Izi]

maybe thats the reason noone gives a shit about the forum you run.

ca has been become popular by its inhabitants and not its primeminister... if you feel like bringing up political metaphors.

youre seriously worlds away from my perception.

for a site proclaiming that critique is a vital part of growth... the ones who run it handle it pretty badly.


[edit] and because some of you are so keen about pointing out "but this has to be paid for"... i can get a hosting deal with 20gb space and unlimited traffic for 3 eur per month. multiply that by ten...fuck multiply it by 100... dont you think the exposure TAD, massive black, the videos, etc got through this, compensate for that?
argument is welcome by me... but stop to be so fucking hypocritical.

Go start your own forum then, you rude little journeyman, for all I care. You havn't a clue how to be grateful or even the sense to recognize something much bigger than your petulant complaints. I don't own a forum, at any rate, I admin for one and there is a difference.

Jason Manley started this site from scratch, he may do whatsoever he pleases with it, and you havn't a right to a wit to say otherwise, if you do try to make an argument about it you are merely a fool, and an ungrateful hobgoblin at that. He has done nothing but good for the arts community and is a decent person with the best intentions for artists of all stripes. This site by its very existence has touched the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in extraordinary ways. Massive Black or TAd may make as much money off of it as they like, it has absolutely no bearing on me, though it seems to have touched your envy! We may contribute to it all but it surely has a leader, and that does mean something more than a voice of a follower. I have been to a lot of big, big art sites and none of them meet the kind of caliber of community this one does. So your ill-tempered rudely stated contempt is really inappropriate and I think you know it. So yes, go try to do the same thing, see how it feels to lead a horde of petulant whiners who think democracy is some kind of functional model of reality. And then try to explain to them all of the technical bits - the poor morons couldn't understand a wit of programming or even how to run their own OS properly, but they certainly know how to improve your forum!

Whoever the moderator was who decided to delete those threads, they did the right thing and it was completely within reason.

Facebook doesn't ban links to its competitors. Neither does Google Plus, and I'd take a guess that Myspace doesn't either. AFIAK neither does Twitter, or Foursquare, or Pinterest, or Tumblr, etc.

You are correct, but Facebook does delete pages whenever it likes, a couple of bands from Greece were complaining about this. I was already aware of them censoring on a massive scale against radical Palestinian groups and deleting their pages as well. I didn't care but it made me think, and then I really didn't care again as it's a private company. Google Plus forces you to use your real name or it blocks you permanently until you send in photo Id. I fail to see how this is better.

[Arshes Nei]

Oh FFS!! Do I need to get out the squirty spray like you would use on unruly cats?

[Izi]

You see, the problem with this forum is it is full of artists.

[SmallPoly]

You see, the problem with this forum is it is full of artists.

Well now I'm confused. I thought the problem was that it wasn't anymore.

[skullsquid]

I'm just going to say, Dusty, I love you.

[OmenSpirits]

Never heard of cghub.

I joined CGSociety before I found CA. I still like cgs very much.

[rappdg]

You guys will probably will just ignore my post but here goes nothing..


For someone like me (a beginner), this place is perfect to learn and be with a community since we have a lot of great artists here. And although I do agree that the tutorial sections needs updating, I think I found more things there than any other "how to draw an apple in outer space" tutorials and personal experience combined and I have been lurking to other forums as well. People here are shockingly helpful and friendly and you rarely find this kind of community now a days.

I don't think that paying for a crit will help the community since that model in itself is anti community if there is even such a word/phrase. I understand that its not how its like before but believe me when I say that this has to be the best art community I have seen in the internet so far. I also agree with people here that a "gallery of the day" or winners should be posted on the front page since its really hard to dig through all of the galleries here.

So yeah... my 2 cents..

[sone_one]

insert bunch of namecalling mixed with fucked up ideals

im not saying this is (or should be) a democracy... i rather see it as some sort of company, where the ceo has his last word. im fine with that. yet, would i stay at a company i got the feeling my concerns arent heard? probably not for long. do you agree with my concerns? apparently not, but its not like i care much what you think, and it certainly doesnt change my opinion, nor does it eliminate my concerns.

i really like ca.org. i spent a lot of time here... i learned a lot... and i spent quite some effort to help others. unfortunately i care too much to just turn away and go elsewhere. i say unfortunately, because obviously it aint really appreciated if concerns are voiced, resulting in a situation where all sides just end up beeing pissed, attacking each other.

this is my last reply to you izi, so post what you feel like. i dont appreciate how you handle this argument, beeing all dismissive and insulting on a personal level, but aslong as you gain something from it... go for it, i couldnt care less.