CA lose its touch?

[HunterKiller_]

It is a fact that a lot of the 'big names' and other extremely helpful resident members who used to roam the forums are no longer here.
The short of it is that a lot drama happened on and behind the forums, toes were stepped on, and people decided to leave en masse.

Regardless, CA is still one of the few highly active and pragmatic art communities on the web.

[Nemome]

I agree with nearly every point so far, but why thinking about stuff that happened in the past? We can't get the good ol members back and I think that we aren't going to be able to bring back the images of old threads.

The forum should get a huge clean up to make forum sections like "Tutorials", etc. more "attractive" again for new users.
Right now, even if I would be good enough, I wouldn't make a tutorial because after a few days the tutorial would be already lost and dusty, haha.

So what does the conceptart team think about this? Anything against a clean up?

[JohnPrince]

I have been a member since 2003, and yes, it was a great time to be a part of this wonderful community, with major names and a variety of talent, it really was an inspiring place to visit.
That said, I think that in order for these forums to survive they need to be concerned with the current state of affairs, and as long as there are people out there with a passion for art, community and learning, then I am sure we can continue to build on what we have, and with the emergence of concept art into the wider consciousness of the mainstream, I feel that the only way is forward.
Keep drawing

[Arshes Nei]

Just a few things. Algen works with Marko who was part of Massive Black, so he is probably going to have more information between the dynamics and relationship between MB and Jason.

Some people left and this from them - they felt Jason was taking a lot of the credit for their work as promotion for CA. You can agree or disagree...

As far as broken images, this was something Jason was trying to prevent actually, but it made for a lot of tension and the old attachment manager was clunky. People would do third party linking through various websites. Eventually, the those sites no longer exist, images get purged and it leaves broken links. People can't do much for that - though some pages I actually saved long ago that I found - I have to find the drive.

As far as people leaving. I don't think there's many sites these days where people stay around for years. Very few people stay, others move on. Who hasn't migrated from one site to another?

[Candra H]

Lots of interesting stuff in here.

I actually agree with both Jeff's and Raoul's comments about critiques. I hate seeing people post for critique then ignore the feedback they're given or not even acknowledge the comments and the thread disappears without trace. Talk about a waste of people's time and effort. But I've also had shit experiences where people come in and piss on my work because it's not to their liking, or are just there to appear knowledgeable or a professional when they're just as much a learner as me. I've been learning my whole life so I know what they look like.

Make of the above what you will...

But re the pro's leaving thing. I just wanted to ask a vaguely related question. I spent a year or so browsing the forum before I joined in 2011 and most of that time was spent in the FF section. Every day there would be fresh threads and posts by amazing artists for this project or that book or movie/game etc. I just don't see that calibre of work there anymore and don't think I've visited FF for weeks, maybe months. Anyway, I always thought it was very clear who the creator of the art was so I'm wondering how Jason Manley could have taken credit for any of it. Or is that an issue that took place elsewhere on the site?

Just generally curious. Feel free to ignore me or tell me to shut up if I'm being too nosey.

But in general, I love this site, even if it's a lot smaller and quieter than it used to be. It's not the place but the people and their work that make it what it is.

[Psychotime]

Some people left and this from them - they felt Jason was taking a lot of the credit for their work as promotion for CA. You can agree or disagree...

Ooh... I can see where people could get that.

[sone_one]

Ooh... I can see where people could get that.

totally...


(linked in the latest newsletter)

not one hint, there might've be others involved. (el coro and andrew jones anyone? amongst others depending on the project). "i created".... man.

[Nemome]

He should "give back" some attention to his older projects again like this forum... I only see him here when wants to spread some news about one of "his" new projects.
With more support this forum could get even better than it already is.

[sone_one]

He should "give back" some attention to his older projects again like this forum... I only see him here when wants to spread some news about one of "his" new projects.
With more support this forum could get even better than it already is.

aside from certain prerequisites this forum is not about how much attention and effort mr manley contributes to it . hasnt been for a long time. otherwise im not disagreeing with you ^^.

[Nemome]

Yeah, but when it comes to managing most of the forum stuff it still seems like Jason is the "head" of it.
But I have nothing personal against him, when I talked to him he was every time very nice.

[Spirit]

"I had similar experiences to what the newer members are saying, I felt extremely intimidated about signing up after seeing so much amazing artwork, for a while I was a lurker. Then I came across so many different threads that were amazing, the "goldmine" as people have described it here. I still have word documents full of things I copy/pasted from threads on here!"

totally. the thing that i really liked was it was people of all abilities adding their own progress, i really liked the vibe of everyone doing their own thing but in it together. i liked that camaeraderie. years later i totally still do.
and how good everyone was (is) really inspired me, it was (is) so cool to talk to serious artists. i think it was Bill carmen who said about he didnt have any coffeeshops full of art geeks to meet up in so this was the substitute which i think is spot on.
i think your right about how big names have moved on, got very busy, had kids, moved on with their lives, but think there are lots of great artists here. check out the Weapons of Mass Creation link in my signature, i grabbed a lot of random work from a few months period and put it all in one place so i could refer back to it and give props to things that i personally, liked. just a thread of 100% dope work done by folks here. it totally blows my mind, and thats just from one short window of time, theres been like 5 threads of that size in work volume posted since i made it, at least, and its only stuff that appealed to my personal taste. other people could compile 20 threads of their faves i bet...

that tells me all this talk is just kids growing into adults and feeling nostaliga for the first time, amplified by the internet.
its as good as the people. as long as theres loads of good folk doing their thing and kicking ass, itll be fine.

by the way put your sketchbook link in your signature and people can click through to your work and say hello.

Ya I think the same... I've seen many people talk about all of the people who used to post art here, the pro's or the people who were just generally amazing but hadn't made it to 'pro' status yet. They just haven't seen or discovered the amazing artists that are coming up now on this site, I'm currently trying to find them and drool over their work for a while, then get started on my work!

I still look through those word documents now, I saved so many inspiring quotations and posts from here I think I'll look back on them as long as I have them. Although I could have ordered/titled and organised them a lot better!

I have considered making a new sketchbook on here, I had one years ago which I haven't updated in so long. I say make a new one, as the work I made back then is completely different to what I'm creating now, I just feel it's not relevant anymore so I might make a new one and see how it goes. I do however, post my work on my blog which I might put in my sig.

I agree with nearly every point so far, but why thinking about stuff that happened in the past? We can't get the good ol members back and I think that we aren't going to be able to bring back the images of old threads.

The forum should get a huge clean up to make forum sections like "Tutorials", etc. more "attractive" again for new users.
Right now, even if I would be good enough, I wouldn't make a tutorial because after a few days the tutorial would be already lost and dusty, haha.

So what does the conceptart team think about this? Anything against a clean up?

That doesn't sound like a bad idea really! I'd probably say clear out the threads with the broken images, ones that are no longer relevant etc. and hopefully people will start using the sections more, and maybe start posting our own tutorials, new ones which relate more to the art now. It's sad that we'd lose potentially brilliant threads, but if the images are broken then it's like having a favourite broken chair. You can stare at it and admire it, remember how it once was, but it's no longer of any use to you.

[OmenSpirits]

Forums are fun, just don't become dependent of them. Like all things online, they are finite.

[JeffX99]

Forums are fun, just don't become dependent of them. Like all things online, they are finite.

Oh I almost forgot...and it was a better time!

Love the look on the kid's face...now that's a WTF? look!

[Dusty]

I don't think CA is on the downslope, but I am annoyed at the recent malware issues and overall bugs.

I can't even surf at work anymore as my company's anti-malware software no longer trusts it and it is blocked.

Really annoying.

[Arshes Nei]

I don't think CA is on the downslope, but I am annoyed at the recent malware issues and overall bugs.

I can't even surf at work anymore as my company's anti-malware software no longer trusts it and it is blocked.

Really annoying.

That I can understand, but it's mostly out of the non "IT ends" hands. Not an excuse though.

Basically a big site like this you need to have tech support and it's demanding and attractive to bots, spyware etc because even though people may say "CA is dying" it's still very well trafficked.

[Black Spot]

Running a forum is a full time job, except Jason and the rest of us mods have other jobs that pay money. The current spam invasion is down a lot since a few days ago, but before that I was spending a few hours a day, which could be better spent drawing, clearing it up - still have tons of old shit to clean up. I have spent up to 5 hours a day doing this - you want my job or any of the other mods? Just go and see what they do running the challenges etc just for the love of it.

I will ask for a section off view where we can move broken tutorials etc to either fix or archive. If there are to be few images lost it would be best if there was a total ban on IMG tags (spammers love them) from a certain date. All tutorials must have images uploaded to the site.

Okay, I haven't always seen eye-to-eye with Jason, but some of you have short memories. All the complaints about the previous uploader was down to Jason trying to protect your rights as artists when the Orphan Bill in the US loomed. CA was well in the front on that fight to get it thrown out. Now we have the best of both worlds; an uploader that will copyright your work or the basic one for general studies that don't matter.

And the forum colour is not pooh enough for me either.

We're not perfect, but be grateful for this place for it's honesty and plain speaking or sod off.

[Nemome]

I am thankful for people like you BlackSpot, because you really show up and tell us what is happening everytime.
But wouldn't it be good if the team would be looking for one or two more moderators to help the current team out?
I don't think nobody would take the "job", so perhaps this would improve the situation of every one right now.
Just a suggestion..

[Beastro]

I miss the little squares of artists at the top. It was a huge goal of mine when I had another account to make it up there one day. If those were back I would love the chance to shoot for the moon again and keep posting. I think others would too. It gives some direction and recognition for the dedication and hard work that an individual has to their craft and the community of CA.

Some really amazing people came up on CA and learned together. It isn't impossible for that to happen again.

Maybe there should be some sort of voting or reccomendation system for such a feature to exist again. Many many people dont even use the rest of CG-Hub under the image cloud they have, and http://www.wipnation.com should get mad respect.

Yea CA is "dated looking", yea its a jump off for TAD because Jason is the owner.

If it somehow had some easier way to discover inspiration again the art I think it will attract more people to the site and people might want to achieve and share their personal goals here again. I mean, how cool is it when an image of yours makes it onto the image cloud in CG-HUB or you get discovered by an AD because they saw your sketchbook thread here.

I made a new account to start grindinng out anatomy and posting here again. I will start doing so with force very soon.

[Shorinji_Knight]

As far as Jason Manley is concerned, I don't have any personal experience with him, so I've no opinion. Some people got mad at him and some started flaming him on his own site and either left or were banned. I don't really know who was right or wrong, it sounded pretty petty all the way around when it happened.

I like this site because it has a lot of people that share my obsession with speculative art. So maybe the big names don't post much cause they're either busy or left, but they've got some of the biggest names in the industry here teaching at TAD. Also, I've seen a lot of amazing nobodies here that are going to make a name for themselves.

[Raoul Duke]

I think maybe a favorites browsing system like CGhub and DA would change everybodies opinion. That's exactly how I find bad ass new artists these days.

Another site CA could learn from is http://www.wipnation.com/ It's got some great features, too bad it's such a ghost town.

[Velocity Kendall]

wow this ones good!
http://www.wipnation.com/citizen/mstewart

[sone_one]

looking forward to the lurking tool beeing implemented .

[edit] maybe with an option to de-/activate certain pictures to show up in there (by the person uploading)?

[Vulgar`]

Please bring back the old CA.org color scheme. *puppy eyes*

[JohnPrince]

I just want to say thank you to Black Spot for taking the time to provide a little insight.

Another point to consider, the older you get, the more commitments you have in your day-to-day life,
the less time you have to spend online, and certainly when you are juggling a career and/or family it
can be nearly impossible to keep up with your commitments outside of those things.
So let's be a little more understanding.

I have have been away for sometime and seemed to have missed the disagreements that
have taken place amongst the senior staff, when did this all take place?

[Maledict]

The live streaming note is incredibly important. The problem is livestream.com (where every artist I've seen is streaming) isn't really that great of a live streaming site. Twitch.TV and Own3d are ten times better but unfortunately they're only for video games.

What would be awesome is starting a site, added onto this one, that's solely made for live streaming of artists. I would love to see some of the better artists on the site painting in 1080p+ quality. I think that would definitely breathe a lot of life into the forum but I'm not sure about the plausibility of that ever happening.

There's no reason you can't stream on twitch.tv of yourself drawing - Hell, I do, whilst at the same time playing games. Justin.tv is the parent "site" of twitch.tv, and you can pretty much stream there. Livestream.com's interface, and everything else, is rather shit. Justin/twitch are a lot better in terms of interface and network infrastructure. The only thing livestream has going for it is the amount of people who use it, and for exposure to more people.

But I do agree that CA needs a bit of an overhaul if it wants to compete - that's just life, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Shit, I've been here for...wow, almost 10 years as well. Jesus. I don't remember how I found it, but I was rather entranced by all these pros with their great work. Made me want to be like them, so I worked at it.

But I do think that there has to be some changes. I saw wipnation, and immediately signed up. It's not a zero-sum game, you can have both a flashy interface, AND a good community. I'm not sure about wip nation's community, but it certainly is flashy, and the front page IS something that I absolutely like. IF ca.org just made some minor tweaks: Say something like a grid up at the top (Replacing the old "pros" grid, which is no longer there anyway), automatically generated based on hits, popularity, acclaim, of the piece (With a time limit to prevent them from stay at the top forever), this will give huge incentive for people to work their ass off even more. Since it's not static "Hall of Fame", but dynamic, and they could be up there if they work on it.


edit: Regarding all the "drama" that happened - I really still have no clue what happened, and further more...I really don't care? I like to avoid drama at all costs, I just don't see the point. There are a shitload of other more productive things to do (Watching paint dry being one of them - literally. At least you can study the reflections of light as it dries, et al), and drama is probably the most pointless of them all, you accomplish nothing and everyone involved comes off like a whiny bitch.

[JFierce]

We already had something like that awhile back with a giant grid of everyones stuff with a bunch of thumbnails, just wasn't as big and with select images, they could put up their own gallery, people could rate it, occasionally the better rated would appear in the row under the 'pro's on the front page if I remember correctly. But that was rare, and there were so many people posting, shit would get lost amongst the many many many many others.

But frankly it wasn't nearly as interesting as it appears. People would use it, some would be flooded with bullshit people getting fake ratings from friends or random people that weren't nearly up to snuff. Then people were far more focused on their SB than the gallery and no one wanted to update both. (Also I don't remember who it was in this thread but they said the WIPnation community was a ghosttown)

Some kind of interface would be 'nice' I guess since correct me if I'm wrong but when typing www.conceptart.org you automatically go to the forums, there isn't any art at all displayed besides the two ad banners. But the problem I see is if it's solely popularity based because then you get crap like Deviantarts top hits or favorites where there are some nice pieces here and there, but a whole lot of just pure shit popping up.



Could do something based more on community activities, like CHOW or all those and display something that's more about getting involved and drawing. Having their stuff shown for participating, might make people want to participate (I've never done it but thinking about starting recently if I can find time, last one I was going to but then I realized my wip didn't fit the criteria lol, it was fun though drawing to fit a topic someone else set)

[QueenGwenevere]

Eh, yeah, when you have anything purely based on popularity, you end up with a page full of ponies and porn. And pony porn.

It might be neat to show a grid of recent winners of the community activities, though. That would enforce some level of quality control, spotlight the activities (which are one of the cooler aspects of this site,) and motivate participants in the activities.

Or maybe a mix of items from, say, the top ten FF threads and current activity winners - that might make for a reasonable balance of content and quality?

[Shorinji_Knight]

I'd been periodically lurking this site since almost the beginning, but I was too busy with life to participate until I decided I wanted to actually do something with my art. It was Chow that made me start posting here. I think I did 4 or 5 Chows before I ever posted anywhere else. The community activities are one of the biggest draws this site has. I know other sites have activities, but they're not as well known or respected. They need increase the visibility of the activities.

[fersteger2]

It's seems a lot of people want this place to be like it was 5-8 years ago. The whole concept art thing was new. This site became the massively cool place it was because it was one of the first forums where professionals got together to post stuff, that was the whole point of it originally. Since then many of those professionals have gone on to great things and are busy drawing and doing they own things. It's up to the people here to make the place great, and since everyone here wants it to be great, it's up to those of us here to make it great.

If things aren't how you want them to be, that's the time to put in the work to make things the way you want them to be. Long live CA.org I say!

[Psychotime]

It's seems a lot of people want this place to be like it was 5-8 years ago. The whole concept art thing was new.

...Huh? You can't possibly mean what that sounds like.