tablets/pcs for drawing

[bahferretboy]

So, drawing with a stylus on all these new Windows 8 tablets.
I'm having a hard time finding much info about what the drawing experience is like with all the new releases.
Lenovo thinkpad 2, ideapad yoga, samsung ativ smart PC pro, acer w700, dell xps 12, hp envyx2, etc, and all others I'm forgetting.
Even other options like all in one PCs (dell xps one 27, sony tap 20, etc).

Anything that can be drawn directly on to the screen.

Whenever I go on to google, I can find endless lists of hands on reviews and such for these devices but none of them talk about what it's like to draw on them.
If you either own one, or manage to have a go on one, can you post what the experience was like here?
I think it would be very handy to have all this info in one place.
A lot of us want to get Wacom cintiq substitutes, but now there's so many options, it's really confusing.

Thanks in advance!

PS: Sorry if something similar to this thread has already been made- I couldn't find it!

[JeroKane]

I know that tablets like the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2, Samsung Ativ Smart PC and Asus Vivo Tab, which are all Powered by the New Intel Atom Processor, have a Wacom Digitizer! And as they have the full Windows 8 Version, you can run x86 software on it.

The question right now is tho, how well the New Atom CPU holds up and if we can run software like ArtRage, SketchBook Pro on it With adequate performance.
I know software like PhotoShop and Painter might be a far stretch.... altho maybe an older Version of these two might actually run well on these tablets.

The Atom Powered tablets are also in a more affordable range, while the fully fledge Core i3/i5/i7 tablets run almost all over the 1000 dollars.

The Acer Iconia W700 tablet has a great price, but it doesn't have a Wacom Digitizer build in. :-(

I myself I am very interested in the Samsung Ativ Smart PC. Saw it in the store today and the S-Pen worked great in Notes and Paint (just to test out responsiveness).

[Griffonnage]

Be carefull with windows 8, some are the RT version and you can't install your "normal" version software on it, you need to go to the Microsoft store and buy a compatible RT version. I'm not sure Atom device (asus vivo tab, Samsung Ativ 500T Smart PC for example) have a full windows 8 OS, I read a few review with the RT version so be carefull while buying/trying

I have no idea if Adobe or other company plan on a system that could use the key we have for desktop version to make a RT version run, I would be borred to buy two time the same software so I just hope we will have an option, or at least cheap price...

Hope some of you can test the atom cpu models... I'm interested by the "pro" samsung ativ, but here in my small land we have absolutely no shops that propose them -_- they are out of stock, unavailable or coming soon... Sigh...

[JeroKane]

Be carefull with windows 8, some are the RT version and you can't install your "normal" version software on it, you need to go to the Microsoft store and buy a compatible RT version. I'm not sure Atom device (asus vivo tab, Samsung Ativ 500T Smart PC for example) have a full windows 8 OS, I read a few review with the RT version so be carefull while buying/trying

I have no idea if Adobe or other company plan on a system that could use the key we have for desktop version to make a RT version run, I would be borred to buy two time the same software so I just hope we will have an option, or at least cheap price...

Hope some of you can test the atom cpu models... I'm interested by the "pro" samsung ativ, but here in my small land we have absolutely no shops that propose them -_- they are out of stock, unavailable or coming soon... Sigh...

Samsung Ativ Tab has an ARM CPU and thus runs Windows RT.

The Samsung Ativ Smart PC and Smart PC Pro have Intel CPU's and run Windows 8 (Pro) and thus can run Legacy x86 programs.

You can easily see which tablets run Windows RT and which run Windows 8. Tablets With an ARM CPU (NVidia Tegra / Qualcom / etc) run Windows RT and Tablets With an Intel CPU ( Atom / Core i3, i5, i7) run Windows 8.

[Griffonnage]

Thanks for this precision !

[wannabeanimator]

I was actually considering the Surface tablet as apposed to the Samsung 10.1 note. Any thoughts
on this? I only heard is that the Surface does not have pressure sensitivity where the Samsung
does.

I like the fact of drawing on the screen as if I was drawing in a real sketchbook; as apposed to
some Watcom tabs...were you draw on the tab but have to look on the screen to see what's
going on...

[JeroKane]

I was actually considering the Surface tablet as apposed to the Samsung 10.1 note. Any thoughts
on this? I only heard is that the Surface does not have pressure sensitivity where the Samsung
does.

I like the fact of drawing on the screen as if I was drawing in a real sketchbook; as apposed to
some Watcom tabs...were you draw on the tab but have to look on the screen to see what's
going on...

True. The Microsoft Surface does not have a Wacom Digitizer and the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 does.
But Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 runs Android and right now there are not that many great drawing programs available compared to iOS and Windows platform.
You got Sketchbook Pro for Android, but that one is a little underdeveloped, less features and a bit buggy.

In the New Year tho, Microsoft is going to release the Surface Pro tablet, that runs Windows 8 Pro and that one will have a Wacom Digitizer.

[panicbear]

The best place I've found for user reviews of tablet PCs is here:

http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/

Some of the new machines have reviews there now. Not everyone there is looking for drawing tools, but quite a few are, and most people at least review the handwriting experience.

[bahferretboy]

JeroKane, that's great about the Surface pro having a wacom digitiser. I've tried to look this information up many times, but could never find any confirmation on it. This fills me with a good bit of hope
Thanks

[JeroKane]

JeroKane, that's great about the Surface pro having a wacom digitiser. I've tried to look this information up many times, but could never find any confirmation on it. This fills me with a good bit of hope
Thanks

It was mentioned during one of the Conferences I believe, but unfortunately it hasn't been 100% confirmed yet by Microsoft. I still keep my fingers crossed that Microsoft licensed Wacom and not trying to reinvent the Wheel.

[wannabeanimator]

I don't know...if the "Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro 700T 11.6" " already runs Windows 8 and has the Wacom digitizer...then why look
any further....except for maybe the price point...1500.00...ouch!

[Alf3d]

Im going to buy the ativ smart pc pro in 15 days or so. Its powerfull and its wacom 1024
I have been reading a lot of opinions about it. I hear that pen is having problems near the borders of the screen. I have to experience that myself before buying it.
Also I read some complains about the plastic cheap keyboard and awfull balance when plugged in. (I dont mind that, I plan on using it by pen)
Still I think is the most powerfull one and Ill like to run zbrush as well as photoshop so this one seems best chioce for me.
btw, yes it runs windows 8

[bahferretboy]

just been reading up about the ativ smart pc pro- shame about the issues with the keyboard and s-pen. Would have been sold on it, if it wernt for those!
I am starting to get quite interested by the xps 12. Will have to look up some reviews on it, when it's released (around the 5th december I believe).

Can you use any stylus with a stylus enabled tablet? Or do you need to use the one it comes with? (Apparently the ativ pro stylus is quite small)

[bahferretboy]

Alf3d, let us know what you think about the tablet when/if you get it

[dsw59]

Don't forget to check out the Genius graphic tablets. They are solid, well made tablets that are, in my opinion as good as the Wacom tablets, except they are much cheaper.

[iven]

Hi there, I am interested in a PC tablet too, I just need to run Flash, Photoshop etc.
But people warned me from the ASUS brand that flash works not well.

I might have some other usefull informations/videos in this thread:
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...-for-Animators

I still didn't decided, can anybody tell me something like YEAH I got flash on it
and it works fine something like that I want to read.

Thaaanks

[Zelzaan]

In the New Year tho, Microsoft is going to release the Surface Pro tablet, that runs Windows 8 Pro and that one will have a Wacom Digitizer.

Ehm, no. It's definitely not wacom technology. The Surface Pro pen has a rechargable battery, Wacom Pens are powered by the tablet itself. MS is probably using this tech: http://www.perceptivepixel.com/products/active-stylus.

Well have to wait for reviews to see if it can compete, It'll be my first choice if so.

Im going to buy the ativ smart pc pro in 15 days or so. Its powerfull and its wacom 1024

Can you use any stylus with a stylus enabled tablet? Or do you need to use the one it comes with? (Apparently the ativ pro stylus is quite small)

You should take the pressure levels with a pinch of salt. The Smart PC Pro is still using old Wacom Tablet PC Tech with 256 pressure levels. The 1024 are just interpolated digitally. The good news though: you can use any wacom tablet pc pen.

[JeroKane]

Ehm, no. It's definitely not wacom technology. The Surface Pro pen has a rechargable battery, Wacom Pens are powered by the tablet itself. MS is probably using this tech: http://www.perceptivepixel.com/products/active-stylus.

Well have to wait for reviews to see if it can compete, It'll be my first choice if so.

That is actually very interesting! Would be about time that Wacom gets "real" competition! So prices can come Down a bit.

[darkmagistric]

That is actually very interesting! Would be about time that Wacom gets "real" competition! So prices can come Down a bit.

Don't hold your breath. For the longest time, Wacom has had compeition....the competition just offers really sub-par performance. N-trig for example, their Pen and Touch Digitizer Combo is not only Cheaper but uses less Battery Power from the tablet since the pen itself has a battery. No mind the performance is crap in comparison, but for the likes of upcoming HP Elitepad and the Sony Vio Duo 11....they still opted for N-trig...and Wacom couldn't care less. Their bread and butter is the Intuos/Cintiqs/Bamboos.......the Tablet PC market is at the bare bottom of their concerns.

You would need a company that could create a pen digitizier at least equal in performance to Wacoms or better....but also cheaper and easier to configure. If its the same price....they'd just go with Wacom since their allready established as the industry standard.

And to go even further, since Windows 8 has ushered in a new age of Touch Screen Desktops and non-tablet touch-Laptops....if you could get them to employ the same pen tech on a 21 or 23 inch Desktop monitor rig with full pressure support....or even better....the Eternally rumored Touch Screen iMacs...if they were to ever come...with full pen support to boot....I'm pretty sure that would make Wacom Tremble.

[JeroKane]

Don't hold your breath. For the longest time, Wacom has had compeition....the competition just offers really sub-par performance. N-trig for example, their Pen and Touch Digitizer Combo is not only Cheaper but uses less Battery Power from the tablet since the pen itself has a battery. No mind the performance is crap in comparison, but for the likes of upcoming HP Elitepad and the Sony Vio Duo 11....they still opted for N-trig...and Wacom couldn't care less. Their bread and butter is the Intuos/Cintiqs/Bamboos.......the Tablet PC market is at the bare bottom of their concerns.

You would need a company that could create a pen digitizier at least equal in performance to Wacoms or better....but also cheaper and easier to configure. If its the same price....they'd just go with Wacom since their allready established as the industry standard.

And to go even further, since Windows 8 has ushered in a new age of Touch Screen Desktops and non-tablet touch-Laptops....if you could get them to employ the same pen tech on a 21 or 23 inch Desktop monitor rig with full pressure support....or even better....the Eternally rumored Touch Screen iMacs...if they were to ever come...with full pen support to boot....I'm pretty sure that would make Wacom Tremble.

Well both Apple and Microsoft have the Pockets to kick Wacom in the teeth. Apple however will surely be even more expensive than Wacom. So Wacom has sadly nothing to fear from Apple.

But Microsoft on the other hand..... they can come up with a matching Product and easily undercut Wacom.

[thegiffman]

It seems pretty apparent that the Surface Pro is using the "Perceptive Pixel" technology that Microsoft bought earlier this year. You can see in this demo video someone demonstrating pressure sensitivity. It remains to be see if it is as good for drawing as the Wacom ones, but it is clear that Perceptive Pixel was targeting a far higher end market than Wacom (they sold 80 inch multitouch displays to CNN). Their website explicityly says the following:

The low-friction, replaceable tip of our active stylus is engineered for a smooth, controlled feel on Perceptive Pixel display surfaces. It comes to a sharp point, giving you sub-pixel precision and registers pressure to capture the nuance of your stroke as you write or draw.

My overall response is some real excitement. This technology could actually be quite a step up from the Wacom HD touch display (as long as the pen response is comparable), in that it supports smart interaction between multi-touch and stylus input, rather than either/or. Am I sure this is what is in the Surface Pro? I don't have any good reason to doubt it. Some of the key features of the Surface Pro touted in the announcement are exactly those touted by Perceptive Pixel. The use of gorilla glass and a special optical bonding, to get the pen super close to the screen. The much vaunted "palm-block" technology - implying that same far more sophisticated feature than just switching off the touch digitizer when the pen is near. The statement that the pen samples at "sub-pixel" accuracy to get a really fine line even once you've zoomed in. And then even little things like the fact that the pen is powered. This would even explain the later release of the Surface Pro than the ARM model - it's a technology they acquired this summer, and so it would take longer perhaps to integrate it.

Here are the links (could be missed as I had them in the paragraph):

- Perceptive Pixel feature demo
- Stylus demo showing pressure sensitivity
- Perceptive Pixel home page

I'm starting to let myself get really excited...

[Zelzaan]

Guys, it's time to get excited. Seems like i was mistaken, just saw this in the tabletpcreview.com forum:

http://www.wacom.com/products/stylus/bamboo-stylus-feel

Wacom feel IT technology works exclusively with sensors embedded beneath the screen in many of today’s cutting-edge tablets, like the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, the Microsoft Surface Proand the ASUS Slate, among others. Bamboo Stylus feel is precise and pressure-sensitive. It’s a stylus with a thin tip that feels and performs like a premium pen.

If that's not a mistake, were getting Wacom for the Surface Pro, that nails it for me.

[darkmagistric]

Sorry to burst your Bubble Thegriffman

But ITS WACOM

http://www.wacom.com/products/stylus/bamboo-stylus-feel

"Wacom feel IT technology works exclusively with sensors embedded beneath the screen in many of today’s cutting-edge tablets, like the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1, the Microsoft Surface Pro and the ASUS Slate, among others. Bamboo Stylus feel is precise and pressure-sensitive. It’s a stylus with a thin tip that feels and performs like a premium pen."

This isn't anything new per say....Wacom is just repackaging its Tablet PC Penabled Brand of Pens as "Feel it"

But this is confirmation that Wacom will be in the Surface Pro. For me this a boon, since it now kind of garantees my purchase of the Pro.

[darkmagistric]

ahh Zelzaan, you beat me by 10 min

[thegiffman]

Sorry to burst your Bubble Thegriffman

But ITS WACOM

Not sure if my bubble is burst quite yet. I'd like to see some Microsoft confirmation of this, since the Surface Pro demo said that the pen was powered, and being un-powered is kinda Wacom's signature. Are you positive "Feel it" is the same as the old Penabled, and not something that lets the pens work with non-Wacom digitizers?

Not that it being Wacom technology would be bad news or anything - it just doesn't seem to all add up.

[Griffonnage]

I don't know if it's a good new or not... since wacom doesn't improve the tablet pc digitizer and stick with the 256 pressure point, I was full of hope learning about the perspective pixel because the market always need competition, but if it's finally wacom, it will be 256 pp again ? Or maybe a hacked frameware that end with "false" 1024 pp... Aaaah hope all of these tablets will come soon in Belgium, can't wait to test !

Oh, by the way here is a strange thing :

list of compatible device :

Fujitsu Lifebook T902 Tablet PC
Fujitsu Lifebook T732 Tablet PC
Samsung Galaxy Note 1 Smartphone
Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 Slate
ErenEben T6 Slate
Dell Latitude 10 Tablet PC

Where are samsung 700T and 500T ? Asus 810 ? Some other wacom digitizer device are missing...

[darkmagistric]

The list of compatible devices is clearly not complete.

But they all use the exact same digitizer so the "Feel It" pens will be compatible with all Penabled Tablet PCs and vice versa. If it works with the Galaxy Note 10.1 it will be just as cross compatable with the surface pro or any other Tablet PC.

My only issue with the "Feel it" Pens is that they don't appear to have Erasers....which is kind of dumb, since thats the one feature Wacoms few compeitors can't seem to copy.

And as for all the previous "In development" builds that had a battery pen.....the stage from a Development Build to the actual release is long and things can change.

Maybe the Perspective Pixel Pen was the plan...but the performance just wasn't there yet and needed more time..so they ditched it out for Wacom. Maybe the "Next" gen Surface Pro will use PP instead.

[bahferretboy]

Anyone here getting a Surface Pro on day 1 then? If so, let us know what it's like
(and youtube videos if possible)

getting excited now.. no confirmed date, but it's around or about 3, maybe 4 weeks

[Griffonnage]

Hey, if "perspective pixel" is no more for Surface pro, I hope we will learn more about it next year ! What about a big sized screen with it (like the one from the demonstration video)? Yes I'm dreaming, but honestly that would be so great !

[Jorj_X_McKie]

I'm excited about the Surface Pro.... If it has Perceptive Pixel, awesome. If Wacom, great. Now about those Atom Clovertrail tablets... I bought the Samsung ATIV 500 and sent it back for refund after about a week. Inking was acceptably smooth on SBP6 and Painter 12, but controls (brush resizing, pinch zoom etc) very laggy and IMO unusable. Other than that, as a general tablet, i liked both it and Windows 8.