bike, super soaker, dog

[powerful.pineapple]

Hello everyone, thank you for all the awesome comments you've given already on my pathetic works as I am a complete noob.

This is a very new sketch, as you can tell, and almost everything is messed up. I just want to play around with this framework as the composition is diagonal/crossing and I don't know how to make that more pulled-together but still have it be an unusual open piece.



The girl is supposed to be spraying the dog with the super soaker. It's not a bird's eye view but I hope it looks like we are above these characters; I don't know the term for it, but it's a bit of an angle looking down from a treetop or something nearby (or a streetlight). The bike is confusing me with this angle but I'm looking at some refs to get it right.

The "background" will be a black road with a yellow line crossing from the top left to right (another part of the "diagonal" composition). I did it in red pencil and then desaturated that so that is why this line is not visible in the sketch.

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Alice Herring]

Hello everyone, thank you for all the awesome comments you've given already on my pathetic works as I am a complete noob.

This is a very new sketch, as you can tell, and almost everything is messed up. I just want to play around with this framework as the composition is diagonal/crossing and I don't know how to make that more pulled-together but still have it be an unusual open piece.



The girl is supposed to be spraying the dog with the super soaker. It's not a bird's eye view but I hope it looks like we are above these characters; I don't know the term for it, but it's a bit of an angle looking down from a treetop or something nearby (or a streetlight). The bike is confusing me with this angle but I'm looking at some refs to get it right.

The "background" will be a black road with a yellow line crossing from the top left to right (another part of the "diagonal" composition). I did it in red pencil and then desaturated that so that is why this line is not visible in the sketch.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Oh man. Pick something complex, why don't you? First, you should get into the habit of drawing a ground plane (a grid in perspective, basically) it'll help remind you to draw in perspective vs. drawing objects on profile and just moving them up or down.

Second. if you really want to do this angle (and I'm not sure what you mean by "unusual open piece?" Why are you choosing this angle? Why not have more thumbnails?) It would probably be good to shoot specific reference with the camera angle you want. Toys are great for this.

[powerful.pineapple]

Hi, thanks for the comment! Yes, it is a bit complicated, but I guess it will teach me something. I'm going to look around for that ground plane thing in a tutorial. I have toy skateboards, but not a toy bike.

I do want to do this angle. I did several thumbnails, and I might do two versions of the composition to see which is better. The other one has the bike facing the other direction. It's just about the diagonal. Also, I didn't represent it right, but the front wheel of the bike is turned away from the viewer and not in line with the rest of the bike.

Thanks again!

[Alice Herring]

Hi, thanks for the comment! Yes, it is a bit complicated, but I guess it will teach me something. I'm going to look around for that ground plane thing in a tutorial. I have toy skateboards, but not a toy bike.

I do want to do this angle. I did several thumbnails, and I might do two versions of the composition to see which is better. The other one has the bike facing the other direction. It's just about the diagonal. Also, I didn't represent it right, but the front wheel of the bike is turned away from the viewer and not in line with the rest of the bike.

Thanks again!

But WHY do you want to do this angle? What do you mean "it's just about the diagonal?"

A ground plane is just a simple perspective grid; I'm not sure why you're looking for a tutorial?

[powerful.pineapple]

This is supposed to be pinup/cover comic art. I wanted this top-down angle because it seems more comedic to me somehow than looking onto it straight-on (medium shot) and I can fit in more details.

Maybe it's because the eye flows downward and it ends in a sort of punchline effect?

Believe it or not, I have never heard of a ground plane before. This is why I get rejected from everywhere.

edit:



I'm trying to figure out the flaws here. Am I doing this right?

[Alice Herring]

This is supposed to be pinup/cover comic art. I wanted this top-down angle because it seems more comedic to me somehow than looking onto it straight-on (medium shot) and I can fit in more details.

Maybe it's because the eye flows downward and it ends in a sort of punchline effect?

Believe it or not, I have never heard of a ground plane before. This is why I get rejected from everywhere.

edit:



I'm trying to figure out the flaws here. Am I doing this right?

Uh.

Well. Technically, yes...but for thumbnails I generally use a shorthand. It gives me enough information that I have an idea of the perspective. I've also drawn in pespective enough that I'm pretty good at estimating the lines without having to use vanishing points. That's just for the thumbnail stage though; I'd set up an actual grid for later steps.

Also: part of the problem here is you're saying downshot, but the girl/dog aren't /really/ foreshortened. I would recommend doing more thumbnails. What could also make this funnier, if you were going for comedy? Would the shot be more appealing if the girl wasn't stopped? Do thumbnails until you run out of ideas, and then try and do a few more; then you really have to think for creative solutions. What if the dog was chasing her? What if they were on a hill? Not knowing what your storypoint is, I'm just offering random suggestions. (maybe the dog has a water-hose!)

Last: it's not that you don't know what a ground plane that gets you rejected (although rejected from what?) You're pretty much still learning how to draw. Doing comics is great, and you should keep doing what you enjoy - but you might get better faster if you dedicate a little time each night to studying drawing. This might mean drawing from a master drawing, or drawing/painting a simple still life you set up in front of you. Or when you have a lunch break, carry a sketchbook and draw people/stuff outside for a few minutes. Yeah, we all suck at it at first (or at least I did) but it gets better

EDIT: Ahh. and for some reason when you said downshot, I was thinking a full down-shot; not a 3/4 down.

[powerful.pineapple]

I thought I'd post my thumbnails, both the early ones (the first set) and the ones I did after your recommendation (bottom set)



Thanks for the help, but I feel like there's something I'm not getting. I liked the original composition. It was an odd idea, but I thought I could at least check out how it looked (that it was unusual was interesting for me). Are you trying to tell me it's bad, that I shouldn't work on that one and should try another?

Edit:

Didn't phrase my sentence well! I did want to play around with the theme, and I really appreciate your suggestions! I meant that I liked the slight view from above in the first example.

[Alice Herring]

sorry, didn't mean to abandon this thread -- deadline at work, so this is a drive by response.

It's not so much about being wrong or right, but making an informed decision about what best serves the story point (while maintaining the clarity!)

Your larger drawing lost the energy of even your original thumbnails. Have you thought about photocopying them up and using a lightbox? Also, in your first drawing, the two main objects are stacked almost exactly on top of each other and divide the space evenly. (And yeah, I misread your original post because there was no ground plane - downshot is WAY different than slight downshot! sorry about that!)

*My* suggestion would be if you're still new at this, do as many thumbnails as you can - then when you run out of ideas try and do 10 more. It's a way to force yourself to think of creative solutions that wouldn't occur to you otherwise. If you're already set on this one being a slight down angle that's cool, do more thumbnails for your next project.

[powerful.pineapple]

No, thank you very much! This looks like a really supportive forum where people practically adopt noobs.

I forgot to answer your question about rejections: I was rejected a very long time ago from MassArt. That was a given, as the portfolio I put together was awful. I didn't even get the right resolution. I think I'm going to blame that on depression and seasonal affective disorder and panic attacks. But long before that, my writing and art was rejected by the NFAA YoungArts contests multiple times. Again, my life situation was stressful as crap and my family put me through horrible melodrama over my art back then, which set me back a lot. Also, I generally avoid the finalists list for every contest I submit my writing to, fiction or nonfiction.

Most recently I got rejected from the Animation Workshop in Viborg, DK for a portfolio I composed in a very short time, which is stupid, and it was all in pencil (this is really the best I could do) which was even more stupid. I posted my entire portfolio in my sketchbook thread and it's also here: http://eaalex.daportfolio.com/

Basically, I'm bad at stuff. I can't complain much though because I was published in magazines (nonfiction) at seventeen and lots of people older than me still wait for any opportunity to see their words in print, even for free. But, anything to do with writing a specific essay/story for a contest, or putting together a portfolio, never works for me at all.

[Alice Herring]

I think you're being a little hard on yourself. We all start out badly. There may be the occasional person who is extremely competent at a very young age, but most of us have to work for it. You're just in the 'still working for it' stage. (A stage which is endless, even once a person gets hired as an artist.)

I can't tell you for sure why the portfolio was denied, but I could share my thoughts on it if you're interested? From an animation industry perspective, at least.

[powerful.pineapple]

Sure! You can post feedback here or PM me.

I did lose most of the energy in my thumbnails in this work. I didn't think while I was composing it, I guess, or maybe thought too much. I'll do some mock ups in Photoshop based on my thumbnails later and post them here.

Thanks!